I want a plane that will have nice straight line speeds as well as being capable of 3D. I don't need a crazy 3D plane, but one capable of hovering, knife edges, nice snaps, and nice roll rate. I was looking at the GP ucando planes, and a phoenix extra. Whatcha guys think?

The U-Can-Do is a pretty awesome 3D'r, but it is a SLOW flying plane, thanks to those large control surfaces.

At high speeds flutter is a big issue, so it is recommended to prop this plane down for a lot of torque with lower pitches.

My Giant UCD 3D uses an 18x6 APC prop, and I wish I could go to an 18x4W, but no such animal.

Although the Extra is a nice aerobatic plane I don't think it is capable of 3D.
U-Can-Do are nice. Another nice one is the Hangar9 Showtime available in 3 sizes.

What do you mean by 3D? Knife edge, snaps, rolls I don't consider 3D so I guess I'm confused there.

UCD3D will be slow, but probably 3D capable to most.

The Extra will have better straight line speed, but will take much more skill to 3D.

When do you plan on flying this plane?

I'd put the trainer through its paces first. You'd be surprised what your little Mach-1 is actually capable of.

Then I'd step up to something like a nice low-wing sport plane, Stik, etc.

As opjose pointed out, the U-Can-Do flutters very easy and it can also be fragile since it is built to be as light as possible for its size. It is a nice flying plane of course; it just has some flaws that people need to be aware of.

The H-9 Twist might be a good option but I'd put it off until at least plane #3.

When the time is right and you are really serious about 3D, look at a profile. I dabbled in 3D flying a little and found them to perform better than just about anything. Turns out 3D wasn't my thing though.

www.ohiomodelplanes.com

www.swanyshouse.com

I guess I don't really know the correct definition of 3D flying. I see extras doing really neat stuff and I want to do that too. Maybe I just really want a good aerobat. I watch the crazy foamies, and I don't want to go that extreme. I guess I want an aerobatic pylon racer, if anything like that exists. I think the extra might be what I really want. I already have a stik type plane and I have my trainer set at the largest throws that I can get out of it. The stik is definitely more agile, but it can't do what I really want to do.

I believe that the generally accepted definition of 3D is maneuvers while the aircraft is stalled, the wings producing no real lift. Most typical aerobatic maneuvers do not fall into this category. In 3D one is flying on the prop only, using it for lift and enough airflow across the control surfaces to make them effective in changing the planes attitude.

The Extras you are seeing are generally larger planes and are engineered for 3D flying (large control surfaces, etc.) The Phoenix Extra is more "stock" and is probably best suited as an advanced sport flyer.

I still say you'd be shocked at what the Mach-1 can do. I've gotten mine to hover for short periods and all sorts of other stuff you wouldn't expect. Other pilots I've watched have even gotten more extreme with them. One of these days I am going to clip the wing on one and see how it flys. Same goes for the Stik. They have a very light wing loading and some (i.e. Ultra-Stick) are almost borderline 3D planes.

Regardless, I'd still use some sort of aerobatic sport plane as a stepping stone before moving on to a full blown 3D capable airplane. Something like a Super Sportster might be a good choice.

3-D involves "high-alpha" maneuvers that, as mentioned above, usually have the wing stalled and you're flying on the propeller alone giving large control movements. To do that takes a LOT of control surface. Generally with a very low pitch propeller that gives a lot of low-end torque and instant responsiveness to throttle changes but low top-end speed. Like driving your car in 1st or 2nd gear.

High speeds, on the other hand, take a high-pitch prop that runs best flat-out and requires that the control surface movements be slight. In fact, some good 3-D models would tear themselves to pieces from aileron flutter if you give them full power in level flight. Even more would have problems in a power dive.

A fast plane is a different animal from a 3-D plane. What you are looking for is an aerobatic model. LOTS of those that are great flyers; though with "general purpose" models you give up some of the specialized performance. A Quikie-500 is not a U-Can-Do is not a Hot-Stik is not a Yak-54.

I can recommend the Kangke SK-50 as a good sport ARF model that flies smooth aerobatic FAI pattern style and is sleek and fast with a Super-Tigre .51 in that smooth spinner & coweled nose. It would pass the 1/5 & 1/6 Scale P-51 warbirds at my field. Nothing like a dedicated 3-D model for snap maneuvers and no torque rolls, though.

But, when you think about it really, as soon as you take off your model is flying in three dimensions. Dumb designation for hyper-aerobatics, isn't it? Now they're calling some "4-D"; which to non-flyers means three dimensions plus a time component.

I was really suprised last weekend by the agility, speed, and aerobatics of the "Twisty". I'd never seen one flown before. And this one only had a .46 E-Flite engine on it -> this particular plane was slightly modified originally for a .60, but the .60 he had gave up the ghost one afternoon.... It went UP in a beautiful rocket-like climb and then STRAIGHT back down into the planet like a missle.... But he and another guy at the club both told me that when the .60 was on that plane it would shoot straight up like it was heading for orbit and pretty much wouldn't stop until he let off! The pilot of the Twisty was a really good pilot and he was running high speed, low level inverted passes, "floaty" knife edge flying, snaps, whip-tight loops, and all kinds of neato aerobatics plus when he opened it up, it absolutely screamed! (he did lament the loss of the .60, but he was also really happy with the way the .46 was performing; he hadn't flown it with the .46 before last wekend). I'm not sure if it's exactly what you're really looking for, but it might be worth checking out. Those big square looking wings really keeps it up in the air and the lightweight design let it boogie when the throttle is opened up!

Maybe a Balsa Nova. It's between something.

will...you can always learn how to build.
Build two wings for the same fuselage. One for speed and one for tossing it around.

Snaping a model at WOT is not too healty on the air frame though.

Brett65

You mention foamies in one of your replies, if you want to start learning 3D given time you could do a lot worse mainly as they're so durable in comparisin and easy to repair and you'll probabably have need of that at some stage during the learning process.
I went from a Aileron trainer to an Acromaster with the rates set low to start, it can be quite docile and one of the club members just flies fast aerobatics with it and yet flick the switch and you can have a 3D monster if you want.
There's a link here that gives a reasonabel idea of what it's like http://airtoimedia.nl/web/upload/vdV...cromaster2.wmv

I think what Brett65 might be looking for is a hybrid 3D/Pattern plane. He wants something that will fly smooth, fast, and straight but still be able to perform a wide array of aerobatics. A pattern/3D hybrid design or a sport/pattern hybrid with big control surfaces should be a good match:

-CMPro Quest 50 ARF
-Model Tech Twister 46 ARF
-Phoenix Models Laser ARF
-Sig Somethin' Extra ARF
-Sig Mayhem 40/Mayhem ARF
-Lanier Razor 3D ARF

Any of the above planes will do what Brett65 wants to do.

Biged, Brett is, I believe, looking for his second plane (?). I think he indicates that his only flying experience is with a high wing Mach 1. My question would be, " Should he first get some more experience with a more " traditional " second plane, perhaps a Tiger, 4*, or something of that ilk?" I have never flown any of the planes you mention, so I would defer judgement on those. Just would hate to see someone get hooked up with something a bit over their heads, especially someone starting out.

My second plane is actually my first.[X(] I have a stik type of plane that is definitely a little more capable than my Skyraider. I had it before the raider, but got the raider to actually learn on. I am currently throwing both of them around as much as they can be. I flew a fellow member's pulse last week, and it was almost no different than how I already fly, with the exception that it doesn't slow down very easily. I flew it and landed it just fine, and want something more than what a pulse or 4 star can offer.

Okey Dokey. I stand corrected as to your experience! Biged`s list is a good place to start. Good luck and happy landings!

Another excellent choice is the Aeroworks Edge 540. http://www.aero-works.net/store/detail.aspx?ID=75

I have been flying this plane for awhile now and I just can't say enough good things about it.

I was having the same problem as you, I wanted a plane that would go fast but could also do 3-D if I felt like it. If I put it on low rates I can burn holes in the sky and then as soon as I flip it to high rates I can go right into some 3-D flying.

I thought about this plane, do you think a phoenix extra 300 would be a similar type of performer? http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGPL7&P=0

I think that would be a good flying aerobatic plane but it probably isn't going to 3D very well.

Between the edge and 300..I d' go with the edge.

I have that exact extra and other extras...the phoenix's extra is mild compair to the GP extra arf or kit.

The edge has bigger control surfaces all the way around.
You can always lower the throw..if it's too much.