Spacemonkey71

I FINALLY landed a great job that pays rather handsomely AND has a signing bonus The job is in Selma, AL and it turns out that there's a great LHS with an airfield out back. Selma is about 4.5hrs from where I live now and my wife and son will be staying in South Ga; I'll come home on the weekends. So I'm looking for a good plane to use there that matches my flying skills (which aren't "Top Gun" level by any means but I get by; sort of "experienced but enthusiastic novice" would be about the right term). I'm not looking to spend a ton of money, but I have narrowed it down to a few that I really like and I'd like some feedback on what you guys think.

Here's my list of planes that I'm considering:
1. Goldberg Falcon 56 MkII .40-.46 - $85(I have a 1970's vintage Sr.Falcon that's GREAT and I love the design, quality, look, and abilities)
2. Goldberg Eagle 2 $100 (other than it's a Goldberg, I don't know much about this high wing trainer looking plane)
3. Goldberg Tiger 2 .40-.46 $150 (I found an awesome review of this plane at http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?ID=110&Index=0 that really got me interested in this plane; plus it's a Goldberg so I know it's quality of build and a that it's one of the "classic great planes" )
{yes, I love the Goldberg planes; I have a 1970's vintage Sr.Falcon and I LOVE it! I know they make GOOD quality kits with outstanding flight characteristics for a very, very reasonable price}
4. T28 Trojan RTF $250(There are almost a half a dozen of these at the field I fly at and they are FUN to fly! Everyone who owns one practically evangelizes about them and how much fun they are. I've flown one and they ARE A BALL! -but at around 10mph wind, they get tossed around a little bit more than I'm comfortable with; they're SUPER light... At $250 for the plane completely setup + controller (that even has High and Low settings) it's a pretty good deal; plus they're easy and cheap to repair if they go SMACK )
5. Mini Ultra Stick PNP(electric) $279 - I'm a HUGE fan of the "Stick" airplanes and I've had the chance to fly one of these. It can do some pretty cool stunts as well as being a "lazy flier". The size is also a plus for me - hauling a huge plane around in a 2 seater roadster can be "tricky"... Price is on the OUTER edge of what I want to spend...
6. Hobbico NextSTAR 46 $90 -don't know much about it, heard lots of good things though... and the price is right)
7. Easy Sport 40 MkII .40-.50 $105 (don't know much about this one either besides the look and shoulder wing setup)
8. Great Planes Big Stick 40 .40-.51 $115 (again, the "Stick" planes -and I'm in LOVE with the red + maltese crosses! I've got a hand made "Das Ugly Stik" from ~1970's that needs doping+painting; the ARF version would be something to learn how to fly it well on without worrying about destroying a hand crafted masterpiece of building ability)
9. Hanger 9 Ultra Stick 40 .40-.46 $180-has flaps for "crow" flying and near "Harrier" takeoff and landing capability - I could definitely learn alot from this plane, but I don't have a computerized Tx so I may not be able to access the "crow" capability with my 7 channel
10. Hanger 9 Super Stick 40 .40-.46 $100- like the Ultra Stick only $80 cheaper and no flaps (could probably be "modified" though)

Alternates:
1. Kyosho Minium Piper Cherokee RTF (electric) $179 - a SUPER TINY Piper with FOUR CHANNELS! (vs the Citabria/Cessna 3 channel models of comparable size) This is something I could fly in parkinglots or in the street at home. I love the tiny size and the fact that it has all four of the basic channels (throttle, rudder, elevator, AND ailerons; most micro flyers don't have ailerons)
2. Great Planes P40 Warhawk .25 $95- always been a huge P40 fan; 3 channel (throttle, elevator, and ailerons) but warbirds are "tricky to fly"....
3. Wingmaker Wingman II .40 $90-a basic low wing plane that I don't know much about other than it's inexpensive
4. Pheonix Sonic 25 .25-.32 $70 - I know very little about this plane other than it's a smaller craft, low wing, small engine
5. Hanger 9 P51 PTS .40-.52 $220 - I like the "progressive trainer" functionality, but I've also seen a couple of these "dirt dive".... pricey though and you see them EVERYWHERE

For the engines i'm just looking for at a basic OS Max .46 LA ($67) or an OS Max .40 LA ($??). For the .25 size, the OS Max .25LA ($75) or Thunder Tiger GP .28 ABN ($65). Servos = Futaba S3003 ($10.99) - I've used these alot and I've never had a problem with them; they're just cheap and reliable little servos that get the job done.

What are your thoughts on these planes? I've done alot of hunting and reviewing of articles, etc... I'm really leaning towards the Goldberg Tiger 2 above all the other ones. It's a really sharp looking plane that can be flown "tame" or like the Witch's Favorite Monkey - in either circumstance, the build quality and flight characteristics are outstanding. These planes have been flown steadily for 30 years and have taught THOUSANDS of fliers (even me on the Sr. Falcon ) I also favor the Falcon 56 MkII because it's SO much like it's big brother the Sr.Falcon (which is a trainer that can do things "trainers" shouldn't be able to do; it's stable as a rock but you can really yank it around if you want). The other 2 I can't discount entirely are The Mini Ultra Stick is just a fun plane to put in the car without a ton of gear and flip the switch and ZOOM! And the other is the fact that I'm still a huge fan of the Big Stick 40, especially now that I have a handmade one that I don't want to destroy! [:@]

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

No doubt about it - Tiger II

This is one of the most amazing planes I have ever flown (And most Tiger owners will agree)

It is very stable, yet it will do any maneuver outside of 3-D that you can think of.

All in all, it will make you look like you're a better flier than you really are [sm=thumbup.gif]

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

I sure wouldn't talk anybody out of a Tiger 2, or any other Goldberg model for that matter. Then again, I'm a bit biased myself:



I'd recommend a good ball bearing .46 for it. I'm partial to Thunder Tiger myself.

Good luck and good shopping!

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Go with an engine at the larger end of the spectrum - a .46 for a .40 size plane. You'll here people say "yeah it flies nice but I wish it had more power" but you won't hear people say "It flies OK but it's just too much power"

And there's the old adage "...there's no replacement for displacement."

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

Plenty of folks say "It flies OK but it's just too much power." They just translate it in different ways:

"It sure lands hot! How can I slow it down more on approach?"

"The landing gear is really weak. I keep repairing it and it keeps tearing out."

"It balanced perfectly once I got about four or five ounces of lead on the tail."

"I really liked my plane, too bad I lost it to control surface flutter."

"So I'm just practicing my snap rolls, when all of the sudden the wings folded up!"

I'm sure there are plenty of other versions of, "It flies OK, but i's just too much power."

krossk

My Feedback: (27)

Put a Thunder Tiger .46 on a Tiger II and the permanent grin on your face will have to be surgically removed

I found the T2 on low rates easier to fly than my Avistar, but on high rates was a total blast to fly. It is truely an all-purpose airplane that will adapt to whatever flying ability you throw at it (within the structural limits of the airframe of course...)

Of the planes I've flown (Avistar, Tiger 2, Ultra Stick, Somethin' Extra), the T2 was by far my favorite - so much so that when I crashed it, I immediately started building a Tiger 60...

bruce88123

I'd vote for the Tiger 2 also as long as you feel good with your high wing trainer. Tiger 2 is easier 2 fly in many ways but can be made to fly hotter if desired and still fly nice for landings.

ChuckW

I agree with the others... go for the Tiger.

Still, I think the little T-28 is a must have as well. Sure it is foam, its small and its electric. That doesn't make it any less fun though. You can even stash it in the back of a car for spur of the moment flying. As for the wind, the T-28 is even more fun when it's breezy. It keeps you on your toes.

Obviously I love my T-28 but I may have found a little foamie that I like even better. That would be the new Parkzone Corsair. To me it's just a little zippier than the Trojan and lands just as gently. I honestly think the little Corsair would make a great second plane or a good first tail dragger. It may look like a little warbird but it doesn't have any of the bad warbird habits. It is pure fun.

draftman1

you will get better performance and reliablility from a 25fx over the la and the 46 ax over the la. La's are ok but the extra cash for the BB type will be better

F4U Corsair

My Feedback: (22)

I'd go for a Big Stik, it's a great 2nd, 3rd, or 4th airplane IMHO. Flys like a trainer when on low rates except it rolls and flys inverted better (especially if you take the small amount of dihedral out of the wing). On high rates with throws max'ed out, it is a pretty wild ride, more than I can handle at the moment. You can make it into a tail dragger if you prefer to. DG

Spacemonkey71

WOW! I had NO idea there were so many Goldberg fans on this site! That's AWESOME!!! I don't think I've ever heard ANYONE say, "I really hated that <Sr.Falcon; Falcon 56, Tiger 2, Eagle 2, ... from Goldberg> I flew! It was a real piece of crap".

If you haven't read the article at http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?ID=110&Index=0 or don't know much about the Tiger 2, READ IT !!!! I was really SOLD on this plane by the end of page 1 !! By the end of the article I was already 95% sure that THIS was the plane I wanted above all others - even my beloved GP Big Stick 40. I even cut/pasted the entire article into Word format for future reference. Before this article, I had only heard bits and peices about the Tiger 2; always GOOD things, but nothing really specific. Still, it was enough to get me to put it on the short list for research. I'm SURE glad I did!!!

And you CAN put too big of an engine on a plane. I HAVE DONE IT!... I've got a Tower Trainer 60 with an OSMAX FP 60. Unfortunately, I lost the original wing in a crash and it got replaced with one that is just about 8"-10" too short (spanwise) and I can't fly it at full throttle even with 10%! It's like a NASCAR race -> fast as snot on the straights (which are very short) and then it whips through a turn and it's back in the other direction. It was amusing for a little while, then it just got kinda "un-fun" and I had to start flying it at no greater than 2/3-3/4 throttle. It's grossly overpowered (even veteran fliers think so). And 2 weeks ago (i think....) a guy at the field put a .61 on a Tango .40 and while pulling up from a low alt.-high speed flyby everyone at the field heard one of his wingspars snap [X(] He limped it around and made an un-pretty, but un-crashed landing.

The OSMAX .46AX looks like a NICE engine! I had thought that the AX series was out of my price range, but it's really not (well $105 vs $67). But the Thunder Tiger Pro .46BB ABC @ $90 is also looking pretty sweet too!

"All in all, it will make you look like you're a better flier than you really are" THAT'S IT! I'M BUYING A TIGER 2 !!! I need all the help I can get I can't wait to get my signing bonus check!!! [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I'll tell you about MY introduction to the Tiger...

Many years ago, I had a kid I was teaching. He saw the P-51 I was flying and flipped. "That's what I want to fly!!!" But I convinced him that he HAD to start with a basic trainer, which he reluctantly did.

After a few weeks, he was almost ready to solo - But HE thought he was ready, so he went out to the field by himself and promptly re-kitted his trainer.

So he came back to me and told me the bad news, but then he got all excited and told me about the NEW kit he just bought - A Tiger II

We'll I knew about the old Goldberg Tiger, but wasn't too familiar with it, so I examined his kit -

"Hmmm... Low wing... Fully symmetrical... John, you're not ready for this plane"

But, head-strong as he was, he built it in record time and in only a few weeks we were back at the field so I could maiden it for him.

I took off, trimmed it out, put it through a few maneuvers... Then I put it through a few more maneuvers, then more and more. I was enjoying it so much I didn't want to land so we could set up the buddy box!

Now I should mention that this same summer, I was also teaching my son to fly (on a basic trainer). I was so impressed with the Tiger II that on my way home from the field that day, I stopped at the LHS and got one for my son.

CastorTroy2150

My Feedback: (10)

If you are at all comfortable with low wing, I know you havent listed this but get a Seagull models PC-9 ARF , best flying plane Ive had in a long time. Hard to stall,predictable and I have had a lot of good experience with Seagull models. A OS 46AX would run this plane like a champ, I had a OS 50 max sx in mine and she flew nice. Not to mention tricycle landing gear, makes it a nice second plane even. I see you mentioned the Trojan from Parkzone, jsut bought thier new F-4U Corsair and she is a blast, even comes with a spektrum 2.4 ghz controller....and she screams. Doesnt get bashed around by the wind as much and looks great. Good luck

Spacemonkey71

MinnFlyer, you HAVE to FINISH THE STORY!!!!!

Did your student crash his Tiger 2??? [X(] Did your son like his Tiger 2? [] Did he crash it ? [:@]

PLEASE FINISH THE STORY ! !

(and if any of them did, how well did they "hold up" after a crash? Were they in "repairable" condition or did they completely explode? (like many modern lightweight planes do - it seems the only thing holding them together is the mylar! [:-] )

Also, when it came to turning and aileron authority on the Tiger 2 (this is a question of HOW easy it is to fly), when you make a turn, let's just say a nice semi-tight 180, does the plane want to spin on it's axis (like a sport aero plane, aka "the rifle bullet flyer") or is there enough dihedral to swing it into a turn? (how much dihedral does the wing have?)

I know the plane only weighs ~5 lbs, so I'm thinking a .40 engine would be PLENTY to throw a plane this light around. I've got a K&B .45 that still needs to be tested but I think It will work well on this plane. It's an older engine so it shouldn't be as superpowerd that something like a modern ball bearing .50 would be. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can about this plane before I order/buy one

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Monkey Man, I love CG kits. The Tiger II is an outstanding plane. It's just one of the many I keep forgetting is still out there so I forget to mention to new pilots. I like Sticks too. I think I have built 3 of the CG Extra 300s. If gaRC was A builder I would have tried to light A fire under him to build one for A small IMAC plane, 68 inches isn't too small, OK, maybe there are better choices out there but I really like the Extras. You just posted A lot of nice choices but the Tiger II is A very good second plane.
No Replacement for Displacement, I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I was younger I would have it as A Tatt someplace!!

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

The fellow I was teaching flew the Tiger for a while, but shortly afterward, I moved out of state. My son and his Tiger came with me though. My son learned to solo with it and flew that plane for several seasons before graduating to an Ultra Sport and GP Ultimate 40.

He is currently married and just had his first child (A boy! So he'll have a new flying buddy!) So right now, he is taking the inevitable hiatus from flying to raise his family.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

If you read my post on the Ocean City Air Fest, well, one of the pilots had a modified Goldberg Tiger II electric conversion.

He removed a rib or two from the wing, then lengthened the fuselage a bit, then increased the size of both the elevator and rudder. And, he intentionally built it very light.

This plane is absolutely amazing. He is Master Class Pattern and is not afraid of flying this plane with his level pattern sequences and practices with it on a regular basis.

Bottom line.. Tiger II is an outstanding aircraft. A very nice conversion, by the way. If you want information on the conversion, I can ask Ron and I'm sure he will be willing to provide the information.

But, that's for someone that is somewhat advanced because of the modifications required, however, the ARF Tiger II or the kit, for that matter, is an excellent choice. My second plane was a Tiger 60 and I flew that thing for quite a long time and eventually sold it to someone that still has it and still flys it.

CGr.

Spacemonkey71

CGr, Thanks for the info! I'll bet an electric Tiger would fly INCREDIBLY well (instant acceleration and torque + no "field gear" to haul around) and it doesn't sound like modifying the Tiger hurt it one bit! (heck it already only weights 4.75-5.25 lbs! I'm used to my Sr.Falcon at 10.5 lbs!!!!).

I looked into "electrifying" a Tiger briefly, but since I have NO electric airplane equipment (chargers, connectors, etc...) it will cost me a FORTUNE because I have to start at ZERO. I sat around one day and totalled up the "recommended" electric motors, LiPo battery pack(s), ESC, connectors, and charger and it came up to just over $500 !!![X(]!!! That pond is a LITTLE too deep for me.... I know electric systems are great, but for all that cash, you get 15-20 minutes of flight time and then you either have to spend another $125 on an EXTRA LiPo battery or pack it in for the day and get ready for a 6-8hr charge on the battery you just used.....

I can fly for an AWEFULLY long time on the pink juice plus a couple of spare 600mAH flight batteries @ $25/ea. The only time I've run the battery on my transmitter down to the red was when I spent close to 3 hours messing with a flight sim hooked up to it.

I'll certainly keep the "electric possibility" in mind for the future though. If he's actually able to COMPETE in pattern with an electric Tiger2, that says ALOT about the plane's ability and your friend's skill! It looks like this plane will be around a WHILE because from what I'm hearing, this plane can EASILY "out fly the pilot" ! (definitely ME ! ) I don't see me saying "Well, I've learned all I can with this plane. It's time to get another." ANYTIME in the next SEVERAL years!

ply2win

My Feedback: (3)

I give it a month

Even if you haven't learned everything you can with it I'm sure you will want another one. It's all part of the addiction, I barely get one built and I am thinking about the next one.

BTW, I know what you mean about the cost of going electric. I also sat down one day and figured out how much it would be and I just can't justify spending that kind of money.

cappaj1

My Feedback: (1)

I videotaped a fella at our club flying his Tiger 120. Nice plane! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bB3DQwhA0s

Spacemonkey71

"I give it a month "

I KNOW you're probably right, I still want to fly a nice P40 Warhawk (it's my favorite plane from childhood), but I've still got to finish doping+painting+finishing my handmade Das Ugly Stik, so when I finish building it, I'll have to fly it and that will slake my thirst for a long while.

The catch is the cash! I don't have much of it, even with a VERY well paying job! Between my son, my wife, my house, my aging cars, and keeping an apartment where I work (275 miles away), things get thin; so when I buy something like this, I do ALOT of research (like this board) to make SURE it's EXACTLY what I want because I know it's got to last me a very, very long time.

heck, I've only been flying for less than 3 months and I've already got FOUR planes! With the Tiger2, it'll make 5 ! Granted 1 isn't "finished" yet (the Stik), I HATE another one (the Tower 60 [:'(]; it's got the wrong wing on it and the wing loading is WAY too high! It's got the aerial characteristics of flying a very stunned beluga whale [:@] ), 1 is just TOO NICE to fly often (the Senior Falcon - I'm terrified I'm going to crash it and it's a handmade vintage plane, so this is not your average ARF that you can just buy parts for ).

Which basically leaves me with 1 EXTREMELY ABUSED "Super Box Fly40" that I've just finished repairing and prep'ing for flying tomorrow. The good thing is if I wipe it out, I'll have an engine for the Tiger2 (a K&B .45) and I won't have to buy servos . This thing is an airplane's version of a rusted out "Gremlin" that's been left in knee deep weeds in someone's backyard for 10 years! (incidentally, this is the plane I got from the guy who has actually crashed 3 different planes in 4 weeks!!!! AND that's ONLY flying on Sundays!!!!) You can imagine the state it's in - even AFTER extensive repair work.... I'm a good repairman, but it's like trying to fix a car you found on cinder blocks using only your lunch money from elementary school!

I just need ONE GOOD plane that I can grow to love and give me a good fighting chance to really learn alot from. That's why I picked the Tiger2. It's easy enough to fly for a relative beginner and CAN be flown very tamely with low throws (the wing loading is actually LESS than most trainers!) and yet it's got the potential to be a high-throw aerobatic HELLCAT that can do just about anything and challenge almost ANY pilot when they want to learn more.

I'll probably always WANT another plane, but "reality" is a ""female dog"" [&o] I'd LOVE to learn to fly warbirds, but I know I'm NOWHERE near ready for one of those! <especially the P40 I want!> So there's really no temptation there. Other than the Tiger2 and the Big Stick (or other "sticks") I haven't REALLY seen any other planes I REALLY REALLY like enough to spend money on (aside from the Falcon 56 MkII, of course I just MAY have to break down and get one of those too )

ErikElvis

My Feedback: (2)

BVM has some nice plane set-ups..

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

You'll never stop getting planes. In areas where we have winter, the routine is: fly in the summer, build your next one in the winter.

That's one of the reasons airplanes are better than women - You can get a new airplane without making your others jealous

TedMo

Spacemonkey: No.1 congadulations on the new job. sounds like a dream come true. Job, club flying field good for you.I wish to not anly congradulate you on all that but also you are one of few that has a head on his shoulders for more than wearing a cap on backwards . I have read many of your posts and it is evident you can not only spell but can even construct a sentence. I'm myself poor on English grammer etc. but some of what I read here really disturbs me. What has happened to our education system? Also find that you research that which interests you and learn from reading these forums etc. Seems too many just continue to ask the same things that have already been asked and answered several times in past. What does that tell me? They are too lazy to try to find out for themselves. Thankfully you have given me some confidence in the coming generation. good luck to you and enjoy that Tiger 11.
By the way if you want to consider next plane think about a U-Can- Do. Great plane for 3D.

Spacemonkey71

Thanks TedMo! I wish I was part of the "upcoming generation" but I'm closer to 40 than I'd care to remember [:@] I just believe that when you're learning about a new hobby, sport, language, culture, religeon, history, science, airplanes, cars, computers, quantum physics, phtography, philosophy, or whatever else you should listen to others with more knowledge and experience (especially EXPERIENCE in something as intricate and complex as flight characteristics and aerodynamics!) and then experiment and read everything you can find on it (which will open up entirely NEW lines of questions leading to MORE knowledge which leads to MORE reading and learning; uncovering NEW lines of questions from that, and so on). I guess it's part of the "engineer" in me (as embarassing as that is! engineers have the stereotype of being bad dressers, having thick glasses, poor conversationalists, etc.... basically "geeks"; I do NOT fit the stereotype THANK GOD! )

And I REALLY believe in this process when it comes to something involving hundreds of dollars that can potentially turn into mylar coated splinters because I don't have the skills required to pilot it or configure it correctly - That's why I do my research FIRST to find out what I like and what MAY be within my abilities and THEN ASK for outside input from people who may have EXPERIENCE with some of the craft I like and if THEY think it's within my ability to fly. For example, I have been in love with the P40 Warhawk since I was 8 years old and I REALLY want to fly one, BUT I know that warbirds of this type are NOT within my ability to fly at this time and I'd crash it VERY soon after it left the ground. To me "research 1st, ask 2nd", is just a common sense way to do things and it gives me a way to get more INFORMATION instead of saying "I want a new plane, what should I buy?" those are the kinds of questions that make me cranky! They're just unfocused "non-questions".Learning how to ask GOOD questions is one of the MOST IMPORTANT part of learning!

I agree that many people have a tendancy to "ask first, research 2nd" or better (God forbid) "Ask 1st, never research....." I don't really think it's "lazy", I believe it has to do with the fact that the entire information gathering paradigm has shifted from the past method of "book research and reading" to "information at your fingertips" (literally!). Even as "recent" as my college days almost 20 years ago at Georgia Tech, I can tell you for a fact that today I can find 4x to 5x as much information in 2 hours than I could have in an 8 hr day utilizing one of the best technical libraries in the country. Why? because VAST amounts of information is easily and quickly available - provided that you konw WHERE and HOW to find it - this is the "big trick" of navigating modern information systems. Unless you know how to find something the "information" out there is useless. Often the quickest way to finding something is just to find someone or a group that MIGHT know the asnwers and ask THEM. I'm guilty of this too. I know that I can spend 4 hours plowing through an entire company's databases and folders to find what I need, but instead, I'll just ask a co-worker who may have what I need handy or know where to find it.

Also, many people forget that there is a difference between "data" and "information": Data is essentially USELESS until you know how to FIND IT and put it in CONTEXT. When you know where to find it and what context it fits into it becomes INFORMATION, which is USEFUL For example, the wing loading of a Tiger2 is 16.80 oz/sq.ft. Great. But unless I know that a typical trainer has a wing loading of between 17 and 20 oz/sq.ft the "data" of "16.80" doesn't mean anything AND if I don't know what "wing loading" MEANS that "data" doesn't tell me anything either. When I know WHAT wing loading IS and how 16.80 oz/sq.ft. relates to other craft, it becomes "INFORMATION".

Incidentally, a wing loading of 16.80 oz/sq.ft basically tells me that the Tiger2 can be a VERY gentle craft to fly with the ability to almost glide forever! (vs a warbird's loading of 26-30 oz/sq.ft which indicates that they probably don't fly really well without power and I'll bet that a deadstick on a warbird = CARDIAC ARREST!!!!)

I've seen the U-Can-Do planes and they're sharp looking, but I'll also say that right now, I don't have enough "Information" about 3D flying to know if it's something I'd like to pursue or not. Right now, I'm just learning how to fly and how to avoid hitting the ground with something OTHER than the wheels [:@] But I can tell you that I'll do research on it