You can fly pretty much anything in the beginners ("sportsmans") class. I believe someone was flying a stick in Goshen last weekend.

I competed with my Dolphin at my first meet last summer.

I videotaped the Pattern event at Goshen which included a [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWjNMx7N5HY&feature=channel_page]first time pattern flyer[/link], [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nAY1zaAQek] several of [/link] [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kSmhqarEgo] Joe's [/link] [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIDupIvy2o0] flights, [/link], and Dave's [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-pREmry-SE]demonstration[/link]. Joe drove 5 hours to compete, and I drove 5 just to watch the pattern event and admire the flying. I don't know why some people say pattern flying is like watching paint dry. It was just the opposite to me, very exciting to watch the precision and maneuvers. The Knife Edge loop for example is a thing of beauty and awe inspiring when executed to the degree of precision I observed. Shoot, just the perfect circles, and even the perfect straight and level flight impressed me more than watching someone hot dog their airplane into a bouncy looking hover for example. Although, I do ALSO like to watch 3d flying, unlike some purist pattern flyers I know

The fact that I turned Dave's Astral into a Prestige was also awe inspiring if you ask me Just kidding, a mistake at throwing the tape together. I taped another fella taking off and flying a bit before Dave's flight, which I missed the takeoff on. Ended up being a pretty cool effect though if you ask me

Anyway, I have to say Joe has progressed quickly and will no doubt achieve his goal at first place in Sportsman and advance to the next class. I aspire to just get into pattern myself and will eventually enter my first competition this year hopefully. I'm sure I'll make plenty of mistakes and doubt very much if I'll place anything but last, but just the thought of trying is exciting, I'm also sure it will make me a better rc pilot and help me to enjoy the sport even more than I already do.

Congratulations to Joe and can't wait to see him get first place - and soon I expect!

...look's like I'm dreaming about an Oxai plane again...

Hmm... That can't be an RDS8000 Joe has in his hands, can it?

Yes, but maybe if he had a better radio he would have come in 1st instead of 2nd Sorry, couldn't resist

Possibly, but his disrespect for the RDS8000 earned a little jolt.

Joe seems to be willing to buy just about anything available to improve his flying skills, so why fly a competition flying sequence with an RDS8000 if there is no respect for the radio? Especially after "making the grade" with that radio?

As I've said before, I flew Sportsman Pattern sequences with a Tiger 60 and an RD6000 (72 MHz). And, I know several "sportsman" category pilots that have succeeded with similar equipment AND moved up to Intermediate with similar equipment. It's not all in the equipment, but in the hands of a capable flyer, success is probable.

I don't doubt Joe's capabilities and willingness to succeed. If he keeps at it, and adds the dedication and practice necessary, I'm sure he will continue to move up.

I've admitted it before and will admit it now. I don't have that drive, that dedication needed for pattern. I tried it, but it just was not my cup of tea. I fly the sequences as I know them, but mainly for relaxation.

Comments made here are public. Everyone that wants to read them are free to do so. So, honesty is a big factor. Talking down the RDS8000 is one thing, but down-grading it after flying a winning event with it is another.

CGr

All I did was state the limitations of the radio. I wish someone else had done that before I bought it. People are constantly comparing it to the DX7 and the 7C and it just isn't at that level.

The radio obviously isn't "winning" (let's not forget I came in second here) any events for me, and neither is my Venus. Burning fuel, asking questions on the forums and to my coach, and practicing what I learn is what does it. Spending an entire day and a half gallon of fuel doing nothing but 4pt rolls so I can learn how to use rudder in my rolls is what 'wins' pattern meets. I work very hard at what I do, and I know that better equipment won't make me a better pilot. I do know that better equipment will help me achieve certain things I'm looking for in my plane and in my flying.

I also know this is a hobby for people that like 'cool toys'. Most of us don't need most of the technology we have in our setups, but we like it...it makes it fun. Spending a few hundred dollars on a radio because people suggested it to you without telling you it's limitations is not fun - it's actually pretty annoying. Had I gotten a DX7 none of this would be coming up (yet). All I wanted to do in the other thread was help someone avoid the same disappointment I keep getting as I learn about these limitations.

I'm not sure what that bit about public forums and honesty was, but anyone who knows me knows I take a lot of pride in my honesty. I really like this hobby and I really like to help people out and am willing to share everything I've learned over the past year or so.

Nice job flying Joe and with the video's.
I was just in Burlington, VT and Plattsburgh, NY a couple of weeks ago but didn't have time to check out any RC Clubs in the area.

Thank you! Cappaj1 really does a fantastic job with videos...very impressive

Watching Dave leaves me pretty speechless - it seems better and better every time I watch it - there's so much in that routine.

The ugly stick while designed by Phil Kraft was not designed for pattern,It was designed to be a quick build inexpensive expendable plane to be used to test radios.

For sportman you can try but one problem will be your rolls ... the Stick is not that axial being a shoulder wing. Another thing, Stall Turns are lousy on sticks. But again, if you are good you stand a chance to look decent for sure.

For me this is the best pattern plane in the size 50 class. She is amazing ... Sebart's Angel S 50.

As I said earlier. I flew the Goldberg Tiger 60 ARF and wsa able to do all.. ALL of the sportsman category maeuvers just fine. You do not need to spend money on a pattern plane to do pattern, at least in the beginning.

I recently bought a Goldberg Skylark 70 which is also a totally capable aircraft for Sportsman Pattern. If the plane is set up correctly, and is properly powered, and if you really want to do it, you can make many airframes fly the sportsman level maneuvers, and fly them very well. And, you can use just about any radio, although at least a basic computer radio would be desirable.

The most basic, and oddly enough, the most difficult maneuver is a staight line. Just flying right to left or left to right, in a straight line, and making a coordinated turn, without gaining or losing altitude, is probably the hardest thing to do. That maneuver sets up all the other maneuves because if you cannot fly straight and level, you cannot set up and properly do a half-reverse cuban eight, for instance, or do a properly coordinated loop or roll that is on center, and starts and ends level.

You can do this with a "second plane". I was doing these maneuvers with a Goldberg Protege, which is a high wing aerobatic trainer aircraft. And, I might add, doing them correctly. And that was with an Airtronics RD 6000 radio on channel 42.

It can be done without all the hype and with slightly advanced basic equipment. But.. it takes time. Learning pattern is not easy because you have to learn the basics fist, then move up, one maneuver at a time, learning how the plane reacts to each maneuver and fying the plane. Yes, all the nice equipment makes it easier but you still have to fly the plane. Learning on a lesser capable plane teaches discipline and how to set up maneuvers by flynig straight and level. If you can do it wit a lesser capable aircraft, you can do it with more advanced aircraft.

Is the Stick capable? The Protege is, so why not.

hi CGretired, i have a ys fz110s looking for a home. wanted to get a plane that will do pattern and a bit of beginner 3d. had my eye on the seagull yak 54 ,black and yellow version.i know that would be more 3d than pattern style, but looks too good to avoid!. any suggestions would be appreciated.

If you are capable of handling that sort of airframe, then by all means, go for it. Many of the 3D airframes will do pattern nicely... up to, probably an into, the intermediate level.

If you want a pure airframe for that engine, the the Venus II is an excellent choice. I've made some minor modifications to mine that make it a bit more precise.

Anyway, in most cases, it's how you set it up that makes the difference between a pattern plane and a 3D plane. With Pattern, you don't want excessive control throws, you want more resolution and less radical movement.

With 3D, you will put in as much throw as the airframe, and you, can handle. So, for the beginner to intermediate level, it comes down to what you fly and how you set it up. Pure pattern will go for the pure pattern airframe setup. But if you have your mind set on that Yak, then, by all means, go for it, but if you want to use it for pattern, build it straight ( careful attention to such things as the squareness of the tail feathers, and the relationship of the horizontal stab to the main wing, then how much throw you actually put in the controls. Then comes the trim and all the work it takes to get it properly in trim for straight level flight plus pure straight for certain maneuvers.

Good luck.

CGr.

thanks CGr, i do have my heart set on the yak, but i had doubts cause it is more of a 3d airframe. i dont want to do total pattern , its just not me , i would rather do 3d stuff. i had a showtime 90 with the ys in it but i dumb thumbed it one day , only had about 12 flights on that airframe and didnt get a chance to try any 3d with it .i would have got another but now that aircraft cant be got ,looks like they have stopped making it unfortunately. anyway as you said yourself its the way you set it up . thanks again for the info!.

Nice plane.

You can do pattern with just about any plane, in spite of what some people may think. It comes down to the level you wish to attain. If you want true, pure pattern, then the airframes that are designed for pattern are the way to go. If you want a mix, well, then just about anything you can get that flys decently and straight will work too.

Obviously, 3D aircraft, such as the Yak, are aerobatic capable.

I own the Venus II and Excelleron 90, both are pattern design, and both are 1.20 size aircraft, not full 2 meter pattern planes. Both do very well, but neither are very well suited for 3D. The size of the control surfaces are not really what's neede for the extreme reactions necessary for some 3D stuff. And, yes, I bought them, first the Excelleron 90, then the Venus, for pattern flying.

Recently, as I think I've said, I bought and assembled the Goldberg Skylark 70, which is also a capable aircraft, but again, not 3D. Most likely, it would do some 3D stuff, as most aircraft will that have enough power and are prop'ed right, but nothing as way out as some I've seen.

So, we get back to your Yak. Here's my take on it. It is a very nice plane. Not particularly my "cup of tea", but I've also flown them. They are very nice in the air, but a bit to reactive for my tastes, but that's what they are for, right?

If you wanted to fly pattern with it, you could always have it set up with dual rates, one for 3D (extreme set up) and one for pattern (tamed down set up) and have the both of both worlds. It will do all maneuvers just as well as most pattern planes will provided you fly the plane. It takes some time to set it up so that it will fly straight and level with no quirks. Going vertical, for instance, watching what it does when headed straight up.. if it pushes or pulls either way or if it tends to roll slightly.. will take some time and effort to dial out. Then when rolling inverted, how much up it needs to hold the inverted will depend on the setup and the CG, among other things.

Setting up the elevator (if it has split elevators) will take some time too, just to get them straight so they behave exactly the same.

There is a lot to it, as there is with 3D setup, but I'm not all that familiar with that, but I imagine that it is pretty much the same.

So, yeah, that YAK will do the job for you just fine... and will be a great home for your YS engine.

Best of luck with that.

CGr.

Morning CG
Where do I find the requirements for the beginners pattern competition? Also, where would I look to see if there is any going on not to far from where I live.

BTW-maiden the 1/4 scale clipped wing cub with the 26 gasser on it. What a sight, beautiful.. looked so real I had to talk to the tower to get permission to land.

Hi Gene.. ha.. great to hear that it flew well. Always good to hear from you.

Regarding the pattern sequences, well, here's a good place to start:

http://nsrca.us/

That's the National Society of Radio Controlled Aerobatics. That's who sanctions the pattern flying in the US.

There is another organization that is somewhat similar but I can't remember their names. It has to do with older pattern planes and designs and has some of the same flight patterns and competitions. But "pattern" is pretty much NSRCA.

There is a forum for pattern flying here on RCU that has some pretty good information and some techinical stuff too.

This URL will take you to the pattern sequences and their descriptions for the Sportsman category (beginning level)

http://nsrca.us/about-nsrca/pattern/120-maneuvers.html

They also have a calendar which may help you out with locations for pattern events in your area. The "district" page will most likely help you out with what's going on in Michigan and nearby locations. I don't think that the districts coinside with the AMA districts, so you might have to peruse through them to see what one is your district.

CGr

There's actually three near you. August 8th and 9th at the Weak Signals field in Lasalle, Mi.
August 15th and 16th in Quincy Ohio a beautiful manicured grass runway
September 19th and 20th in Hebron Kentucky A definite don't miss the Saturday night Flying.

The Nsrca district4 includes Ohio,Mich,Indiana, west virginia and Kentucky
district5 includes Illinois and i know there are some in the Chicago area.

Irish, I have no idea how far you are from Muncie Indiana, but the Nationals will be held there within the next week or so. If you're close it's totally worth checking out. You will see the best pilots in the world there.

For Sportsmans pattern schedule (a list of the maneuvers and what to do and what not to do) go [link=http://nsrca.us/documents/judging/currentamaschedules/PPT_Sportsman2007.pdf]here.[/link]

Also, if you or anyone else has questions about getting involved in pattern, please send me an IM or an email. I am happy to answer any questions or point you in the right direction. It is a lot of fun.

Thanks Joe

Muncie not to far awayhave been there for the XFS championships and visited the AMA buildings. I will take this sheet and practice the requirements and see how I do.