We can't stress this enough.

1) That nice, pretty new plane you have is NOT trimmed to fly straight. That means you already have 2 strikes against your successfully flying it alone, before you start the engine. (and a 3rd when the engine starts.)

2) These things fly faster than you expect. It gets to be a little dot way out there before you know what happened. (if it stays in the air that long...)

3) The instructor can tell you what you did wrong, and how to not do it again... right after he/she saves your plane from hitting the ground.

I just went to the field today... and met a guy who was about to try flying, alone, again. 3rd plane, 3rd engine, second radio... total flying time of 10 sec with the other two planes! (2 expensive lessons... and he didn't learn.)
I pulled out my buddy cord. Helped him check out his plane, and corrected reversed controls. 8O and helped correct a few other problems. (He wouldn't have gotten very far at all before it crashed...) With the aid of a heli pilot who happend t show up... we got his TX and the buddy box trimmed for level flight (LOTS of aileron trim... some elevator and rudder. Wing is warped.) Then, with the plane a safe distance up... he was able to fairly easilly maintain control. (I only had to save it about 6 times... then land it for him.)
This guy will be getting a few more lessons, and will now succeed where he's only been frustrated before.

I really don't want to hear of more people destroying airplanes before seeking assistance learning to fly... But I know I will. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

*****************
I got to thinking I should mention something about this flying site: It is NOT a club's flying site. Its a local park where R/C is allowed. This beginner has been failing to get assistance because no-one with adequate fixed wing flying experience was previously available at that site. (plenty of heli flyers who WILL give help when they can...)

SO TRUE!!!!

Jerry

We've seen this tooooooooooooo many times!
What's with it? People's attitude? Nintendo confidence? or just plain ignorance??

I've heard it a few times, that flying feilds in the USA can be a public park, with regular folk wandering 'aimlessly' on the flight line, runway, under the pattern, etc..

In Canada, we have to belong to a sanctioned club or on private property for our insurance to be valid. Most clubs that I've been to, all have 'pilots only' and 'visitors only' areas, and only when invited, can visitors and pilots 'mingle' in the pilot area. The land is either owned by the club, or leased form the city / township. The land is considrered 'private'. Pretty much all the LHS support our clubs by reccomending at least one for the new flyer..

I am a beginner here, heck I haven't even crashed my first plane yet. I do "not" know how to fly and am wondering how to learn without breaking the bank. So for what it's worth, seeing FH's post was worth a bunch of heartache and money saved for sure, at least for me hopefully. I thank FH for this post, in making me aware of what could happen, and that I need to find an experienced flyer in my area, if there is one. I have been doing some research, and see there are computer simulators available, a lot of success stories, and this forum. So not knowing what I am doing or where to begin, I find this thread of value, ... many thanks.
Harlan [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

The computer sims DO help. But they nowhere near replace having an instructor.

To find an AMA affiliated club in your area, browse the AMA website. www.modelaircraft.org They have a club locator page.

There is also the "UMA" (United Modelers of America) Another model aircraft organization, somewhat based on the AMA's rules. Thier site is: http://www.unitedmodelers.com/ They don't have nearly as many clubs. (and I have some suspicions about the organizer's true motives in setting the organization up... This person was highly involved with the "SFA", which spent most of its time harrassing the AMA with lawsuits.) BUT... there will be people flying at thier club sites... and the guys at the feld will probably be interrested in supporting the hobby.

Unfortunately, there are many places where instructors are very difficult to find, in fact, all but nonexistant.
The newbie then has a choice of going it on his own or get out of the sport altogether. It's interesting how when someone says that as hard as they try, instructors cannot be found and then a well meaning poster claims that it can't be so because "HIS" club "always has instructors eager to help". Obviously that doesn't do the newbie any good if he is in California and the well meaning poster's club is in Boston.

I think that those who belong to "good" clubs tend to think that because they supply such great help, it is the norm in most, if not all clubs.
This is the real world of our sport despite that this truth tends to rub many veteran fliers the wrong way. Of course, one would have to personally get information from most if not all members from most if not all clubs to know what is really happening in the RC aeromodeling world.

Too many times, a newbie goes to the field several times and cannot find anyone who is capable helping, or maybe not find anyone at all. I belong to two clubs which are deserted most days. I've had many beginners personally tell me this, as they were told that there is usually someone there who is eager to help. I am sure that there are those who see a veteran flier put his plane through its paces and the newbie thinks that flying RC planes must be as easy as it looks, therefore, he doesn't feel that he needs help and does indeed go out on his own. Then there are those who are too shy to ask for help. Last, but not least, there are those who are just too proud to ask for help. But who would dare keep records of dropouts because they couldn't find anyone to teach them to fly?

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

Here's my two cents worth. If you are absolutely intent on flying alone (maybe you live in the boonies with no R/C fields within 100 miles or other VERY extenuating circumstances), try a lightweight electric plane like a GWS Tiger Moth, which is made out of styrofoam. Keep in mind, it's still a bad idea, and you WILL still crash the thing, and it will be an expensive lesson, but they are easier to fix, they fly slower, and you will do a lot less property damage if you hit something (or heaven forbid someone).

I'm not in any way, shape or form disagreeing with the advice FHHuber gave, as he is absolutely correct! But, there are always those who have to try it for themselves before they believe. If you are one of those crazy people who doesn't listen to good advice, it would be safer for the rest of us if you learned with a styrofoam model instead of a 6 pound, out of control "missle" that can easily go 70+ MPH (even the top-wing "slow" trainers). (did I mention the "saw blade" on the front?) Also, the gas powered balsa planes don't crash politely. They shatter into a pile of toothpicks that can sometimes be virtually impossible to fix, even if you can find all of the pieces.

I'm teaching my son to fly with a Tiger Moth styrofoam electric. It's been plowed into the ground at least 10 times, and the wings have more epoxy than styrofoam now, but I can fix anything on it in 15 minutes and he is learning the controls and the whole left-right reversed thing when the plane is coming toward you. Better yet, when he's more confident, for $50 I'll go by another slow-flyer and transfer the radio equipment over.

Even better, a lighweight slow flyer WITH and instructor!

Good luck.

Mayday

Sorry, but the help is there if you look for it. The excuse of "I can't find help." doesn't work well any more. (never really has since about 1970...) If you can't find help... you aren't looking very hard.

I continually check with the local hobby shop regarding thier encouraging people to contact me, or other local club members for assistance.
There's a sign in the shop, and flyers from one of the clubs right beside the trainer models. Obviously pointing to where information and assistance can be found.
Very few people contact the clubs for assistance... but the kits keep moving off the shelves. The newbie above bought his kits and engines and radio at the local shop, and claimed he couldn't find help... (Well... he couldn't without joining a club... Maybe. At least one of the clubs in the area gives assistance to beginners BEFORE they join.)

I, and others have dropped off cards at the LHS, and asked the shop owner to pass them to people looking for help. Problem is... they DON'T ask.

I'm not all that atypical of people in this hobby, regarding my desire to help others. You will find that the majority of the members of any club WANT to help beginners avoid making the same mistakes that seem to keep getting repeated. A goal of at least 90% of the people I've helped has been to become good enough to start giving lessons to others.

I've belonged to several AMA affiliated clubs in: FL, CA, IA, ID, MO, NM, and now TX... I've flown at a LOT more places. I was even invited to fly a R/C model in the Phillipines.... on the naval station. ALL offered help to ANYONE who asked. The willingness to help and show hospitality is VERY common in this hobby. The instances of inhospitality are rare. (I've only been made to feel less than welcome once... by people who weren't members of the flying site's club.)

When R/C flying cost proportionally the same as buying a passable used car... you better believe people asked for help before risking $700 worth of airplane, engine and radio (appx cost of a .35 powered TRAINER setup in 1975) Correct that cost for inflation... its OVER $2500 of today's dollars.

If you ask around... you'll be more likely to find people who have flown R/C models than you might think.

Don't lay it off on unavailability. The help IS out there. The AMA website has a section dedicated to helping people find one of the 1000's of clubs. Unless you live outside the US, or WAY up near the arctic circle in Alaska... I can almost guarantee there's an AMA club within reasonable distance. If there isn't an AMA club... there's still a good probablility of other modelers being close.

If you know of no other place to ask... try the local airport. A large percentage of private Pilots start out flying models.

I don't mean to diss the local hobby shops, but this is towards the slight few.. And is a direction we should all take to help them.

They DON"T offer help, or even know where to go for lessons, let alone where the closest feild is or what MAAC or AMA is. $$$ is all they care about, and will do and say what ever to make the sale. Up here (Quebec) there are a few 'hobby stores' that are mostly toy stores; with the odd RC car, maybe a plane, a few radios and a few engines. They have the token 'hobby things' but rarely have the knowledge to educate & pass on. Well, the owner maybe, but the sales person rarely. The new plane owner dosen't know the consequnces, and what to really expect: "How hard can it be?" They are slightly overshadowed be the stars in their eyes about the new toy..

Sorry, As I said, I don't mean to diss all hobby shops, just the token few. Many times I've been shopping and have jumped into the conversation, only to correct the sales person, and educate the potential pilot. This has sometimes lost the sale for the store, the customer realising that the 'kit' isn't complete, and the F4U isn't the wisest choice for a first time build or flyer.

Newbies may not know, and if you don't now, you won't know to ask!

Below is not what beginners are told before purchase of their trainer outfit. Usually, they are told to join a club and there will be instructors eager to help them. I think if the hobby shop owner gave out info like that below, he would lose many, many sales.


THE INSTRUCTOR
by Ironsides
[with contributions from Skip Pothier]


You went through the Wings Program last flying season and are a reasonable pilot. You are very grateful to the instructors in your club who gave of themselves in order to bring you up to Wings Standard. You feel the urge to give something back and think that you should now become an instructor this season. Do you really recall what you went through?

It was intimidating the first time you showed up at the field for training. You had signed up at a club meeting and gone through all the paperwork, but that was a couple of months ago. You didn't know anyone at the field and you stood around not sure of what to do. Fortunately, somebody from the club recognized your lost puppy dog look and came over to talk to you. In the ensuing conversation, it came out that you were very proud of the trainer you had put together and were just straining at the bit to see it fly. But, there were a bunch of other hopefuls there as well and you had to cool your heels for a while. Finally, an instructor came along and introduced himself and said that he had to check out your plane. Five minutes later your hopes were dashed as you got the list of fixes that had to be made before any flight would be possible. You went home and whittled away at the "no-nos" and came back the very next training session. This time you had learned the lesson and you were there 30 minutes early to get to the head of the line.

This time another instructor was in charge and he had a look at your plane and found other faults the first guy hadn't even mentioned. He handed you off to a ground instructor who offered to help you fix things up. Of course you had none of the right tools so you and the ground pounder spent time going from member to member trying to scrounge the tools and pieces. By now your anxiety level was sky high, other guys were flying and it seemed that you could do nothing right. After about an hour of fiddling, the instructors were satisfied that your pride and joy was ready to fly. Problem was that it was now too late and they told you to come back next time. As you drove away, you noticed that you were tired and that the urge to fly had lessened somewhat.

The morning of the next training session dawned bright and clear without a breath of wind - it looked like it was going to be a great training day. By the evening training time there were showers and gusts in the area. Undeterred, you packed up your gear and trundled off to the field. You got there to find only two or three trainees huddled under the sun shelter with not an instructor in sight. You all waited an hour and finally gave up when no instructors showed up.

The next Saturday morning you went back to the field and there was another instructor who you had never seen before. He introduced himself as Joe and asked if you were ready to fly. He helped you start the engine and gave you about 153 tips in rapid fire that you forgot about 3 seconds after he told you because he was going fast and there was a lot to tell you. Nodding your head obediently you said you got it all and the instructor taxied your machine onto the field. He gunned the throttle and pulled it into the air.

Then followed a stream of muttered somethings as your craft wallowed all over the sky. The instructor was holding the transmitter up high in front of him and sliding trims left, right and centre. Finally, things settled down and the instructor landed your model and put it in the pits. He then explained, or tried to explain that there was a whole bunch of adjustments to make to the control surfaces and he handed you off to the ground guy. For the next half an hour, you took the wing off and twisted and turned and forgot which way to adjust things and just got thoroughly confused. Notwithstanding, the experts were finally happy and the aircraft was pronounced fit for training.

A lot of trainees quit right here. They had hoped to have a ball playing with their new toy. They found out that it wasn't that easy and decided that RC cars would be a lot more fun - not anywhere near the hassle and nobody to tell them what to do!

You did not give up and finally had your first flight. Joe took you up and handed control to you at "three mistakes high" where you could only just see that it was an airplane rather than a hawk. Joe kept urging you to keep it steady and every time you tried it went the wrong way, turned turtle and threatened to commit suicide. Joe kept trying to help, but after three minutes your brain went to mush and you couldn't do a thing. Joe brought it home and told you what you had done wrong, but you didn't get it at all. You were exhausted.

The thing that really got to you was that you had to make all these mistakes in full view of the public. The humiliation of being such a klutz in front of everybody was very intimidating. There were many times when it was your turn to step up to the flight line that you would just as gladly have gone home. You longed for the day when you and your favourite instructor would be there all alone. It never happened; you had to screw up in public!

Over the next couple of months, you went to the field for every training session. The number of instructors dropped dramatically after the first couple of weeks. Now you had to wait in line for an instructor - too often you got the guy who was a superb pilot but just could not explain what he was doing. He was also a bit twitchy and snatched the plane away from you whenever you got into the slightest bit of trouble. Towards the end of the summer, you somehow learned how to land without smashing the plane to pieces and they gave you your wings.

Two weeks later you went out flying solo, had severe brain fade and pulverized your trainer. The frustration, shock and embarrassment were overwhelming. What a dumb hobby!

An old timer, who had been watching from the shelter ambled up and offered to go out into the bush to pick up the pieces. All the way out he told war stories of the various beauties he had smacked into the dirt. You just wanted to pick up the valuable surviving bits and get out of there. But the old-timer told you it was important to get all the slivers because it was easier to glue them back together than to start over with a new plane. When you both got back to the shelter, the shock had worn off a bit and others were doing a post-mortem to help you figure out what had gone wrong. You knew there was nothing mechanically wrong, you had just had a bad case of "dumb thumbs". But the guys played the game and it slowly emerged that everybody had crashed and that it was just a part of the learning curve. You went home sadder but wiser. Fortunately your spouse was sympathetic. You decided to rebuild.

Over the next few months at the field flying your slightly heavier, but trustworthy trainer, you noticed that a few pilots seem to carry most of the instruction load. You also are aware that many others have instructed in the past, but they don't offer their services anymore. In casual conversation, you find out that burn out is very high in instructors. You also hear that many guys never really mastered the art of flying until they taught others. It seems that the moments of terror honed their skills. It seemed as that there were pros and cons to being an instructor.

At this point, you might be wondering why we went through that painful walk through memory lane forcing you to think about what you felt as a student. The reason is quite simple. If you forget how a student feels, then you will not know how to overcome those feeling of inadequacy, fear, frustration, intimidation, humiliation, dejection and hopelessness. Your job will be to convince the student that these obstacles can be overcome by the application of discipline, practice and routine.

What does it take to be an instructor? First, you have to sincerely want to teach others the fun of flying, second you have to park your ego and third you have to be prepared to learn how to reconquer the fear of flying. By "reconquer the fear of flying" - if you thought you were scared as a brand new student, just wait until the first time that you have the full responsibility for a starting student who has just spent six months building his trainer!

Being an instructor is not a power trip or even a badge of flying prowess. Some of the best instructors are the quiet guys who couldn't do a rolling circle if their life depended on it. The good instructor is a natural teacher who just cannot abide the thought that others can't learn how to fly when all it takes is a ton of patience and some good luck.
Being an instructor is a position of honour and responsibility. You work for no pay, except the look of gratitude flashed your way when a student gets his wings.



As a group, instructors help set the tone of a club. A student learns from and emulates instructors and their actions from the outset. Instructors who are respectful, polite and civil will instill a similar behaviour in the student. The field is a very democratic place where wealth, status and age are largely irrelevant. It is a "first name" place where good manners go a long way and memories are long.

The paramount duty of an instructor is to be safe in the pits, to fly safely, to instill that ethos in the student and to mercilessly stamp out any cowboy antics in the pits and in the air. The other club members want and need graduates from the Wings Program who are very conscious of safety.

Before you ever take a student up, ask one of the current instructors to be your guinea pig "student". You will be amazed at how different it is to fly a "student" instead of yourself. You quickly find out that you have to fly ahead of the student, that you have to anticipate what they will do and what they will do wrong. You have to have your thumbs ready to recover from the most incorrect thing the student could possibly do - right, because that is exactly what happens. The second thing you discover is that you cannot relax for a second - a 10 minute training session is about three times as tiring as flying yourself. You are on edge the whole time!

Students are scared most of the time. When they aren't scared, it means they are worn out and don't really care what happens! When their plane is airborne, they squeeze the living devil out of the transmitter knowing full well that if they ever stop pressing hard, the plane will lose its lift and plummet to the ground. It doesn't help if the instructor is doing the same thing - only one squeezer required. The instructor has to impart confidence that the student's plane is going to come back in one piece, even though it has flown a flight path that no python could replicate.

So, the instructor needs to develop that calm, deep "Air Canada" pilot's voice. "Ladies and Gentlemen, we are at 30,000 feet, we are heading to an unknown destination with no fuel and we don't have a clue where we are - never fear, Captain Canada is here!" When the student goes inverted at 5 feet off the deck, it does not help if the instructor lets out the loudest epithet ever heard; "Oh Dear!" will suffice as the instructor smoothly takes control, puts it back straight and level and quietly announces, "Yours!", and struggles to get his heart rate down from 250 beats per second.

One of the keys to teaching flying is to tell the student what the level of expectation is for the current session. It is a wise idea to severely limit the content until the student has progressed quite a bit. Early flights need only be, "We are going to go up and when I hand you control, I just want you to do figure eights concentrating on keeping the same altitude throughout the manoeuvre" - sure - like you can do it yourself!

When you finish a session with a student, make sure you debrief them. Try to do this out of earshot of others. Be encouraging, but be frank. Pick up the student's airplane and show how it reacted to the false inputs that resulted in the near disaster. The student needs to form a 3 D mental image of the situation and words alone won't do it. The aim is not to embarrass, it is make sure that the student understands.

A sensitive instructor will try to find any possible excuse to praise a student for any progress. Equally, he will try like the devil not to be too critical of mistakes as a student's ego is a very fragile thing. Other than dangerous safety issues, if the student messes up, it is probably better to say nothing or make a light joke of it. Make sure you celebrate with your student the significant milestones on the way to those wings.

Instructors forget how tiring it is for a student. Anywhere from 3 to 5 minutes is quite enough for the neophyte. At the mid level, about 7 minutes is adequate. Rarely will a student learn anything after 10 minutes - you are just wasting fuel, wearing yourself out and cheating the next student.

An instructor has to build a trusting relationship with students. The students have to believe that you aren't going to horse their plane around, that you aren't going to take their plane up just to show off and put them down and that you will always protect their fragile egos. Lose that trust and you are useless as an instructor.

The pits are a frenetic place. Ever notice how everybody wants to talk at the same time, even though somebody is *****g out an engine ten feet away? Here's something to think about from a student's point of view. All that noise and all that babble are invading a brain that is desperately trying to absorb the last lesson. Students suffer from an incredible information overload. We are all so anxious to tell them all we know - at the same time - that they just cannot absorb it.

As you get deeper into instructing, you start looking at the theory of learning. For example, you discover an interesting school of thought that mechanical learning follows a predictable path. According to the theory, each time a student comes out, we should teach only one skill. So, if John is ready for landings, all we do is shoot approach after approach. When John goes home, he is told not to try to learn any other mechanical skill that day - no going to the golf driving range to tune up that #3 wood! John's brain took that image of the approach and stored it in an area of the brain that is strictly temporary storage. Over the ensuing eight hours, the knowledge trickles from the temporary to permanent storage area. Just like a computer memory chip, if a new skill is introduced, temporary storage gets dumped and the new skill overwrites the approaches. Intriguing, but you could never prove it one way ot the other.

You aren't going to be prepared for the first time your student goes solo. First of all, the tendency is to just keep training: it helps to have a Chief Instructor to oversee training and to force things along a bit. When your student steps up to the line all alone, you won't be doing anything else but watching with every sinew as tight as a drum. You are going to fly every second of that trip, your stomach will fall out with every miscue, and the landing - well, you might just pass out! When he brings it back to the pits, make sure you are there to congratulate him - and yourself (silently)!

Some students get very lazy. They cannot be bothered to show up for the club designated training times, so they just go to the field with their trainer on a nice sunny day knowing that instructors will be there flying their own planes. It is a great mistake to train students who show up on a catch-as-catch can basis. If no prior arrangements were made and mutually agreed upon, the best thing to do is refuse to train outside club times. If you take on all comers, then you might stop going to the field just because you don't want to be bushwhacked.

Some students become quite dependent on the instructors. They show fair skills but seem to balk at any idea of going solo. The hardest thing for an instructor to do is force the fledging to leap out of the nest. The best thing to do is to compare notes with the other instructors. If they all agree that the student should be going it alone, then it is best to tell the student straight up that you are going to take them up but they are going to do all the flying. Don't abandon the student physically, make sure you stand close enough that your physical presence can be felt - but, let the student do it, even if they crash. The apron strings have to be cut one way or another.

As in most situations in life, somethings don't quite work. You will run into the student you cannot teach and some students will not be able to relate to your style. That's fine. Any club should have a stable of instructors so that both sides of the equation can find a fit. Don't let your ego get in the way if it doesn't work out with a certain student. Both of you should move on.

Many clubs reserve specific times for training only. This usually results in a "peanut gallery" of those who don't instruct, cannot fly because of the reserved time, but are willing to volunteer all kinds of help and advice to both students and instructors. This does two things. It confuses the student if what he is hearing is out of sync with what the instructor is saying and if the comments come while the student is in the air, serve to have the student and the instructor loose focus on what they are doing. It's the price of democracy - many voices not necessarily saying the same thing. You might be able to take the more vociferous aside and explain that the the relationship between instructor and student is a special one that should be left between those two individuals. Tell them that instructions from others tend to add to the student's confusion more than assist in the early stages. Equally, you should make sure that the student realizes that, while all the cooks are trying to help, too many cooks spoil the broth.

Instructors must be careful or they will burn out. You might find out that even after easing into the instructor role, you just cannot get relaxed. Walk away, you weren't meant to be an instructor, you aren't doing yourself or your students a favour. However, if you can become established as an instructor, you will tend to take on more and more. That is, when only a couple of instructors turn up and there are twice as many students, you fly students back to back without a break. The brain can get quite fried if you don't take a rest between flights and pace yourself.

Finally, the day comes when you simply cannot face the idea of taking up another student. Fine, just take a break - a long break. You should sit out an entire training season to go back to your own flying and have some fun. You have tried something that a lot of other pilots have never attempted. You probably improved your skills immeasurably, saving airplanes that were in the most ridiculous positions, and you developed a knack for noticing the most minute nuance of an airplane's performance that allows you to trim it far better than most pilots. Most of all, your confidence level is sky high - you can fly without even thinking about it. Your stamina in the air is phenomenal - when you first started out, five minutes was a very long flight. Now you can fly as long as your battery pack holds out.

To all those who have instructed, thank you for your contribution to this great hobby!

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

Interesting article by Ironsides. It gives a perspective of the student, but one perspective. Its good to see things from the student's eyes. There are elements of truth to it (I recall from my own training) but it seems a little overdone too.

Sorry to burst any bubbles, but coming from a rural area, it is very possible that instructors and clubs that have very active instruction programs are absent. But that doesn't necessarily prevent a beginner from learning the skills.

This isn't grade school and the student must take charge on their own education, get proactive and seek out the training. There are books to read and manuals available. There are libraries and resources on the internet. The AMA will gladly point a beginner in the right direction. Its all there if a beginner really wants to learn and is persistent at it.

I was fortunate to have a club with instructors but a "laid back program." None of this days set aside for instruction only with several instructors showing up intent on teaching that day. But I latched on to an instructor and picked his brains clean even coordinating my trips to the field to when he would be there. Even then, I took out my landing gear on my first attempt at landing and it took me months to learn to fly and years to fly confidently. What I missed the most was the lack of ground school - where I learned the basics of flight and models. That came from reading textbooks on aerodynamics, and model journals and manuals.

So I agree with Huber, for the student who really wants to learn, its out there.

Roodester

I must also agree with Huber. I've only been involved in flying about a year now. And even though the closest hobby shop has been very helpful, it's about 60 miles away, so for the first 9-10 months, when I wanted to fly, I drove 3 hours to another state to a field were some friends fly. I did this about twice a month because I assumed that since I didn't know of anyone in my area that flew, that ment there wasn't anyone in my area that flew. Well about a month ago, I found some local club info on the AMA site just by chance. Come to find out, there is a local club and a field 9 miles from my house, but I just assumed that there wasn't anything local because I never bothered to look. I called the president of the club and learned that there are several pilots in the club that are more than willing to help with anymore instruction I might need. No one should just expect an instructor to be at the field when ever you happen to go there, if your planning on going to the field and you need help, it's up to you to contact club members and setup some instruction time.
So once again, I have to say I agree with Huber, if you say you can't get any help, your not looking or asking for help.

My point is that for the most part, beginners aren't told that they may have to search, long, hard and steady, to get help, just that when they join a club, the sales pitch is that there will always be someone there eager to teach them. It is seldom, if ever explained before hand what has been posted here. If the LHS owner had on his counter what is written here of how difficult that it COULD be to get help, chances are he would lose a lot of sales.

Sort of a sticky situation for the shop owner.

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

I would have to agree with all that has been said here. 6 years ago I was one of those Crazy's, I'm a self taught fixxed wing and heli pilot. Still flying all but one plane, that one ended it's life running out of fuel and clipping a tree on it's way back to the pond I was flying on. Oh well you live and learn. I think you can do it your self with the right attitude and patience. I learned on a sim and with books and forums such as this. I think today newcomers don't realize what is involved, especially with the hobby shops willing to sell anything to make a buck. Just my pennies worth.

Good flying and keep your turns ups!



[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Hi all, I'm a newbie looking to set up my first flyer and radio gear.

I agree with all you say about getting help. I watched by brother crash quite a few when he was learning a lot of years ago. People at the Club helped him.

My problem is I am taking this up while living and working in China near Guangzhou. The only flyers here are kites.

I am considering an Electric powered EPP Wing for slopes. I figure it will fly powered over the paddies and get a reasonable flight time on a slope, IF I can keep it aloft.

Any suggestions would be welcome as I think my help will be through cyberspace.

If you are a newbie and can't locate an instructor, at least for safety's sake and cost savings, get a simulator and fly with it. Set the environment to harsh, and the throws to high. If you can fly in that, it'll save you lots of heartache in the long run, and as well as a considerable dent in the ole wallet. I learned on a buddy box, and would have trashed many 'o planes if it were not for some patient instructors.

Hey now, I'm a self taught tree magnet! 2x in the air and I have yet to land intentionally. Get an instructor is VERY good advice. This latest encounter with nature completely destroyed my Alpha trainer. After about 2 hours of walking through living barbed wire (commonly known as briars) I managed to find most of the fuselage, the engine, and radio minus the servo that was in the missing wing. I also found part of the rudder and about 1/2 of the elevator-it hit so hard the wheels came off the struts. Turns out that it was cheaper to buy a new plane instead of fixing the old one and replacing the missing parts. The Solo series trainers have the same flight characteristics as the alpha so using the radio and evolution engine make it just like the alpha to fly. It even has the same look. (Just FYI, on top of taking several weeks to get replacement parts the wing is $80, and the tail assembly is $35-A new Solo is only $99 and you don't even have to repair a damaged fuselage!) The whole point of this depressingly expensive story is take the sage advice and use a buddy cord with an instructor!

Good luck, happy intentional landings.

I am a self-taught R/C pilot, but I don't recommend it. My son is learning the right way, with a buddy box and a careful, caring instructor.
I put up a page about how I taught myself at
http://www.his.com/~rb/rob/selftaught.htm
I hope it is of some help to other beginners.
Comments are certainly welcome.

-rb

"Never be in a hurry to fly"

Remember that just because someone is a good r/c pilot doesn't necessarily make them a good instructor.

2 years ago after a lot of reading, I bought the original FIREBIRD (Hobby Zone) $100. After assembly I read and re-read the manual. Finally about a month went by before the wind, temperature, and mood was right, and I flew it. My son (adult) flew it. I had to learn how to hand launch it, not over control it, and keep my eyes on it. Each lesson came with an unplanned landing. At no time was the plane damaged. The motor is a pusher, the front is tough enough plastic to take it. In less than 2 years I flew it 262 times, before I took it so high that the wind took it out of range, and out of sight. Today I'd recommend the Firebird XL or any other well powered pusher, of 2 channel control to start. It helps to learn right-left when it is comming at you. The XL was much more predictable, handled 12 mph wind, and was responsive. I flew it 87 times when I lost it in sun on a VERY HIGH flight. Next I flew a 3 channel Mini Max by Wattage. I had to learn new operative skills, and it cost an engine and gear box (On the front, which always reaches the ground first when you make a mistake). I flew it for 4 months, 33 flights, when weak wings finally folded up and it hit the ground. I had been doing many touch-and-gos, and once did aas many as 4 loops in a row. I am 62 years old, retired, can choose my flying days, and use the school yard next to my house.
WHATEVER you do, Join AMA.
member Bill AMA 716394

Hello all,

Im new to this site. I have been into RC stuff for a while. I just recently got heavy into airplane RCs. I have to agree and disagree with the views on this discussion. I personally admit, if I had the time, money, and access to a RC trainer I would definately look into it. But where I live the land is plenty for flying, but the flyers and experts are next to none. Me and a fellow fire fighter found out we both loved to fly rc planes and basically just hooked up in every minute of spare time we have doing this hobby. I just currently have 2 electric planes that I love to train with till I move up to the gas powered ones. He has a mamoth 7 foot wingspan gas powered plane, a hangar 9 trainer that I really love, and now a electric like mine to keep him up to par with his flying skills when we cant get out the gas powered ones.

I must say its the most fun, and believe it or not, I have done very very well teaching myself and learning from my own mistakes. Some people, like me, dont really understand the "Dont do this b\c its really bad, trust me" type of lessons, sometimes we just have to learn ourselves through trial and error. I must say I enjoy flying now, Ive finally gotten the hang of my electric and ready to move on to a gas powered trainer, btw, looking at a Hangar 9 Xtra Easy if anyone has feedback on this one would be much appreciated. I also find myself not getting mad or frustrated when I crash, and I have literrally lost count of my crashes, but I have fixed, and purchased all my new parts and installed, fixed everything myself and actually find it very fun and ful-filling to do so. We have alot of people who come out and watch us now as we fly and are just about ready to dive into the world of rc flying, me and eric (felly fire fighter) even have discussed opening up a rc shop to fuel our passion and help those in our area thats wanting to get into it, but thats something down the road when we get more skills and knowledge in the world of rc. My advice to those seeking to get a rc plane and start out is just start with a basic electric rc plane with remote. 2 channel if possible, my first was a fancy 4 channel and it was crashed more b\c of the learning curve starting out verses a 2 channel. When you feel comfortable then move up to a 4 channel electric, then gas powered trainer. If you can get ahold of a instructor then I say go for it, would certainly help. But there is nothing wrong with doing it by yourself and learning, but I advice to take someone who either has flown before, or knows a little something about it at least to help in your first flights till you feel comfortable. I have been flying for a little while now and still dont go out without someone like Eric. Its much more fun to carry someone too, b\c after your flight its great to sit down at over dinner or watching tv chillin discussin what you should have done, could have done, and what mistakes you did so you wont do them again.

Going out to crank your plane and take off and slam into the ground and get mad and fix it and do it again without going over what went wrong and figuring out what mistakes you did is a big no no. Why bother flying if your not willing to take the time and do a good checklist before flying each time to make sure you have everything properly set and ready to go.

I hope some things I said helps those beginners out there eager to fly their first rc plane. I cant describe the feelings I had when I did my first sucessful takeoff, flight with areobatics, and landing. Its so great. And to everyone on this board, hope to get to know everyone a little better now that I found this site.

Btw, any advice on a trainer gas plane is welcomed, like I said looking at a Hangar 9 Xtra Easy, the large wing span for slower speeds and abilities to add on extra toys looks like a great deal.

-Brandon

The Extra Easy is not a bad choice....

You'll find the glow powered plane flies MUCH faster than your electric. Everything happens faster and the damage of a crash can be much more extensive. Repairs are either really cheap... or very expensive with no real middle ground.

The glow engine is a device you must respect as if you were working with a circular saw that has no guards. The prop is spnning at over 2000 rpm at idle... in the vicinity of 12,000 rpm at full throttle. (some glow engine props spin at OVER 25,000 rpm!) evn a wood en prop at this speed can take a finger off instantly, or mangle you hand... or put huge gouges in your leg. Learning to safely operate the engine really requires assistance from an experienced modeler...

While getting used to operating the glow engine, tie the plane down so it CAN'T get loose. They pull harder than you might expect.

The glow powered plane will probably need 3 to 10 times the room your electric model required. When its travelling with the wind... it gets WAY out there to where its impossible to see which way its headed QUICKLY.

The little electrics like the Firebird are what I call 'Toy Class" models. They essentially fly themselves and are hard to damage... hard to do damage with. The large glow model can KILL or MAIM someone. You will have a plane capable of doing $1,000,000 damage... EASILLY.

Brandon,
When we get into How, when,why, where, questions, opinions run strong, and some lengthy.
You mentioned learning from mistakes. EXCELLENT! From the first day I began flying electric "toy fliers"(Firebirds) I kept a log of each battery charged flight. I learned that if I didn't read that log monthly, I'd make the same mistake, sometimes under a different set of circumstances. Thanks for your input.
Bill

Thx Huber and Bill for the input ! Ya eric has a glow plug hangar 9 trainer plane. Its pretty much a whole nother world from the electric class. Ive watched and learn from him pretty well and think Im ready to step up to that class. Well, will keep everyone posted on how that goes =). Thx for the replies guys ... much appreciated !

-Brandon

I am new to this site and new to flying rc's. About two weeks ago I bought the Hobbyzone Aerobird, it is the electric plane with the 3ch remote. I bought it on a Friday night, watch the tape and read the manual. Saturday I put the plane all together and charged the battery, I was ready to go. I went to this 5 acre field by my house and was ready to fly my new plane. I hand launched and flew around for about two minutes and did a great landing. I was so happy, I called my wife and told her I didn't break it on my first flight. After I hung up the phone I decided to fly again and see if I could do it again. It was a little windy but I thought I could do it anyway. I was flying and got a little higher than I thought and was flying down wind, I tried turning the plane but it isn't set up to turn really hard. I made it past one tree and into the top of the next, about 60 feet up. As I was walking across the field thinking my wife was going to kill me and wondering how in the world I could get it down, it fell. Not only did it fall it hit every branch on the way. I just knew that it was demolished, but it only put two small dents in the front on the wing. I was very happy to see that it was still flyable. I have now flown and landed it around 17 times with about 9 hard hits. This plane is great and can take a banging. Yesterday I flew it with no problems and am looking forward to flying today. This a great plane to learn on, but when I move up to a more fragile plane I will definitely get a trainer to go with me.