Hey everyone. Ibought a EDF jet, It's an X22 design. Idid research before getting into this but Ithink Imissed something. Most planes I've seen, have a set of servos controlling the ailerons, to "tilt" the plane side to side....then a set, or single, servo, to control the elevator(s) to tilt the plane "up and down"....my plane has no rudder, so if I want to turn it, I would "tilt" it sideways using the ailerons, then pull up using the elevators, and it will turn...correct? Ithought this is how most planes without rudders work....so when Igot my plane, Inoticed that the manual is showing what Ijust described, one servo for each aileron and one for each elevator....but the plane only has two servos total...one on each side. I then found a little cheap pamphlet showing me that Ineed to LINK together the right aileron to the right elevator and same for the left.....how is this going to work? The planes wiring came pre labeled for installation into the Rx and there is one wire "aileron" and one wire "elevator"....but now the pamplet is telling me to link those servos together?..this is a 5 channel plane (throttle, retracts, nose wheel, ailerons, elevators), but since I'm being told the link this, it's becoming a 4 channel now? I'm just not fully understanding how this will work when I want to tilt the plane to turn, it's also going to want to go up or down....and when I want to climb, both the ailerons and elevators will be moving.....not sure if that's "normal"?....the parts package didn't even come with any linkage to install the extra servos, just linkage to link everything together.

Just confused, and looking for some insight.

Itook some pictures since they are better at explaining than me, I took one of the manual showing the one method with dual servos, then the pamphlet showing the linked way Ihad to do, one of how I set it up according to the pamphlet, and one of the Rx showing both the aileron and elevator wires.....

Thanks for reading.

Well, this is sort of a cheap way to make both elevator and ailerons called elevons.. elevator-ailerons. Cheap in that it uses two servos instead of three or four.

Some, if not most, flying wings use this principal, where they use two servos, one on each wing, controlling the aileron for banks and at the same time, the same control surface as elevators for climb and descent. If you notice the arrangement with the bellcrank in between the servo and the aileron, it will pull the aileron down at the same time as it pulls the elevator down. This acts to bank the plane if you move the aileron to the opposite side. (aileron, if looking at it from the back, right stick moves the right aileron UP which banks the plane to the right, right wing down, and vice versa for the left side).

With the elevator, pulling on the elevator stick moves the elevator UP to cause the nose to move up, rear to move down.

Now combine these together, using mixing in the transmitter and you will get the same operation, but at the same time but with different stick movement.

Does that help? I hope I didn't confuse you as much as I confused myself when writing it..

CGr.

ps.. where in RI? I was born in Pawtucket, raised in Seekonk, now live in Galloway, NJ.

Thanks for the reply. It wasn't too confusing. I actually just looked at the ad from the site Ibought it from and in one of the pictures it's showing the linked elevator and aileron like the picture Itook, but they labeled it as a "new revision"......but as your saying, it's just to make it cheaper because two less servos are needed...I would think the "old" design with independant ailerons and elevators would be more "controllable", wouldn't it? I'm a noob to this and have no idea where to start when it comes to mixing at the Tx....maybe I should just request that they send me 2 more servos and the linkage and just instal them myself back to the original configuration, or are you telling me having them linked into "elevons" like this, is actually easier to fly?

Thanks again for the response.

Welcome to the RCU forums, Eric.

What is your experience with RC model airplanes?
If none, then this model is not for now, but to be laid away for later.

What model is this?
Could you lead us to the manual?
Comes with a programmable transmitter?

It seems that some radio mixing is required for making that arrangement work properly.

"my plane has no rudder"

I assume it DOES have a rudder or a pair of rudders, but there is no control surface on the rudder, nor servo right?

Your plane basically uses Elevon mixing.

Both the ailerons and elevator move in unison on each side.

This is often done on inexpensive ( cough *cheap!* cough ) foamies...

Normally the plane is set up so there is more elevator travel than aileron travel per side.

This lets it pitch up and down without killing lift altogether.

While a bit strange looking, the plane will probably fly just fine.


I have a foamy Mig-29 that is set up just like this... It has two rudders, but no control surfaces nor servos for the rudders.

The Ailerons are linked back to the elevators.

The plane flies surprisingly well, and will even perform nice nose high landings.

Thanks for the replies.

Here is a link to the one Ibought.

http://www.bananahobby.com/1882.html

As you can see, it says 5 channel, but it came in this linked configuration, pretty much making it 4 channel...If you look at some of the pictures, it is in the configuration with one servo per aileron/elevator...but in other pictures, and in the picture labeled "new revision" it is in the linked configuration....maybe new revision means cheaper for them? Ialways thought having seperate control of ailerons and elevators would give you the most control....also wondering why there is still both "aileron" and "elevator" cables going into the Rx, since only one channel is really going to be used, Ithink?

opjose...Sorry about that, yes, it does have two rudders, Ijust meant it did not have any control surface on them. Iunderstand about the elevon mixing now, but I don't get why they would sell the plane unlinked before, and now sell is as "upgraded new revision" with it linked like this....

LNEWQBAN....Honestly, Ihave none, and jumped into this with the wrong plane. Iread AFTER I ordered, to never start with a jet like this. Last nite, after putting this one together, Iwent back to bananahobby and ordered a BlitzRCWorks Skysurfer, http://www.bananahobby.com/1937.html , it's much more beginner oriented, and I'm going to just let this jet sit until I get the trainer and practice on it. I also ordered a Simulator so Ican practice on the computer before Ieven try the trainer....all in all, Ifell into the "trap" Iread about too much and saw a video of a nice jet and just figured I would buy one...I'm just glad I cought myself and got on the right path instead of just going out to the park and trying to fly this jet like Isee in other horror (and funny) stories on here.

Thanks again for all the help and replies guys.

You could probably install your own separate elevator servos.

I did this with a similiar plane that came with that elevon setup...

I used Spektrum programmable digital micro servos, and I used a programmer to reverse one.

This worked great.

Much better choice, indeed.
It is just a clone of the Multiplex EasyStar.
You are going to love and learn from that model.

The EDF will be OK later, it just need some improvements, maybe adding another (or two) small servo(s) for the elevator.

Here you can find previous threads related to this model from BH:

http://search.rcuniverse.com/search....archwhere=both

You could contact by PM or E-mail to some of the members posting there that have put this F-22 together.

Best luck!

Thanks a lot...I'm going to take some time to learn...and probably pick up some servos and bend up some linkage to convert it BACK to the seperate control like it was before it was "improved and revised"...makes me mad that they would change it from a better design to a cheaper one then call it revised!. I'm getting into this whole hobby as a distraction to a rough break up I'm going through, so I plan on putting a lot of time into it, I'm glad there's so many nice people on here that offer advice and help!

Thanks again everyone.

Eric

He was correct in stating it has no rudder. The part that does not move is a vertical stabilizer. A part that moves is a rudder when attached to the vertical stabilizer.

So, just in checking out the jet, I charged the battery, plugged it in, got the beeps, hit the throttle a little bit, the fan went on, then stopped, and the ESC started smoking, and the motor stopped working. Great first start...guess I'm going to contact Banana Hobby tomorrow

Sorry to read that.
I hope you get a positive response.

Yea, I also found right before the ESC went, that the retract servos are stripped and don't fully extend/retract the gear....so far I'm very upset, Iknow $250 isn't much at all when it comes to this hobby, but to have a defective MAJOR part (ESC) and THREE defective servos on a "bonus" option (retracts)...I would expect more from $250....

I contacted BH and they had me send a picture of the ESC, which I'll attach here also. They got the picture and then told me Ihad to send it in for inspection before they will send out a replacement, and that they would send me two replacement servos for the retracts (even though there are three), and then even straight up told me Ishould rather just invest in some "quality" servos for the retracts.....I don't understand why they would pretty much admit that a product they sell has inferior parts, but oh well. Iremember reading a story of someone on here who had the same ESC problem with the same model as me, and he said as soon as he let them know about it they had a new one at his door in two days, so I'm not sure why I'm being asked to send this one in for "inspection" first, doesn't the picture say enough?

Just thought I would post an update.

This has been a month since ordering and getting the plane by the way, still have never even got it to flying condition. BH sent me a replacement ESC right away, good deal. They also sent three new servo's for the retracts. Problem was, all three rotated in one direction, I needed one reversed, so that added another week in shipping to get me the servo. (coming in next week) All three servos also had 12" leads while they needed 18-24" leads, so Icontacted BH and they told me to go to a hobby shop and buy some and they would put whatever they costed back on my card. So, I went and got everything Ineeded, hooked everything up, minus my reversed servo (just locked the landing gear in the down position). Been on the simulator for about a month and felt confident enough for a little flight. Took off great, made one whole turn, and bam, right side servo locked up. Keep in mind this is still in the linked "elevon" design so I had no roll or pitch control really, luckily it jammed in the neutral position so I made an emergency landing and actually stuck it. Walked over and did a post flight, indeed it was not radio problems, the servo was seized.

So I was pissed, contacted BH again. Told them about the latest problem, and that I wanted to just convert it to 4 servo's with separate aileron and elevator servos like the earlier version. They asked me very cunningly "just to clarify, you flew the plane with known defective landing gear?" before even responding to anything else Ihad said. Obviously looking for a way to deny the warranty they offer, I was pissed. They then told me that they would send one replacement servo for the seized one, but would not send me any extra servo's to convert it back to separate controls. They stated that the new version was linked "elevons" because the plane responded much better and was much more stable that way, Icountered with what people told me on here, that it was just a cost saving measure, and they said no, it was to improve the plane. I just ended the chat session.

Went out to the hobby store, bought 4 Eflight 9g servos, a reversing Y, and some wire, and $114 bucks later, have the thing converted to what I want.

So, it was $290 for the plane (went on sale the day after I bought it for $30 cheaper, how nice!)....plane was NOT RTF at all, retracts broken, ESC burnt up at first throttle, fuselage glue came apart in places before even put together. Paid another $25 in USPS to get the burnt ESC back for inspection and in proper glue, so now $315....then the "elevon" servo seized, and the other side seemed iffy quality at best, so $114 later to convert it to a RELIABLE QUALITY, FLYABLE plane, now at $ 429.

I know $430 bucks is chump change in this sport, dont get me wrong. But, for something that was supposed to be RTF, LX models REALLY came out with some horrible quality stuff, to say the least. BH was pretty good with getting me the replacement parts and the costomer service minus that little "clarify you broke the warranty rules for us" moment, was decent, always got ahold of someone within 2 minutes on the online chat system.

Just thought I would give an update and quick "review" on LX Models and BH.

One "good" thing that came from this, this is my first plane ever, first RC toy actually, and after all this Iknow this plane inside and out, literally. I'm an engineer, so Iknew the basics, but now Ihave done pretty much everything you would ever need to do for a simple EDF like this.

Tommorow going to try and fly again with REAL electronics!

I don't mean to be an a**hole here, but you never-ever fly a plane/heli, or ride a car for that matter, if you know everything is not 100%. This is part of this hobby one should learn and respect. I'm not saying they were right or that they were wrong - this is not the point I'm trying to make here. If you suspect a faulty servo for instance (even just suspect) then you leave the plane on the ground - this goes for everything on a plane.

I don't think your being an a-hole at all. I understand what your saying. The thing was, the servos were not even in the plane, I took them out, and left them out, and locked the landing gear in the down position with some roll pins, pretty much making the retracts solid.

More a nightmare than a first RC experience.[&o]
Sorry that all that has happened to you.

Wish you best luck!