RE: I Dont Have IT
 

<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;"><span style="font-size: larger;"><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0);">My Pet Peve with most instructors is they let their students do 3 bad things 1. Fly too far away. 2. Let the student get too low. 3. Go too fast. Full power is for </span></span></span><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;"><span style="font-size: larger;"><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0);">Take off and aerobatic maneuvers only. Learn to slow down give your self time to think. U have to learn slow flight to land anyway, why not get used to slow flight right away. Slow flight also teaches U don't have to go over a 30 degree bank. ... Two things I stress are do a good control check just before taxi out and NEVER NEVER take your eyes off your airplane... not even when your trimming it or when the instructor has control. One other thing I like a student to repeat a command to start with ... that way I know they heard what I said because I talk softly and can be facing the other way, and Us older gentelman can be a little hard of hearing or just concentrationg so hard they block out things like turn left ... YOUROTHER LEFT ....</span></span></span>

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

I understand you dont want a foam plane.
There are some that you have no idea they are foam until you touch them. Get close enough.
But with a foam plane you have a much greater chance to but the battery back in and fly right then.
I have never crashed a balsa plane and flown again that day.
You will spend $100-$200 on it and when you have 10 hours of flying time you can throw it away or give it to someone else starting out and get the plane you want.
Do want you want but I just  want to see people fly without getting upset or quiting the sport all together.
Thats all.
You will crash. It is much better to get it over with now. As you buy those bigger planes even the small ones are expensive.
Of coarse I enjoy the build/repair process almost as much as the flying. Also after you spend the winter building a plane and it comes down unexpectdly it hurts much worse.

Good Luck

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

At what point in your throttle throw was the barrel of the carb wide open? In other words is half throttle on the Tx half throttle on the carb? I have had engines that, until you played with the linkage and radio, were wide open at half throw. You may well have it all set up properly but when I hear (or read) that a PT 60 was screaming fast and the stick was only at half throttle I have to wonder. If it was wide open before full throw that is something else you instructor should have caught.

I will echo the rest. Do not let a crash discourage you! Most wrecks are going to be the subject of some good natured jokes and ribbing but if the entire gallery was disparaging and critical. You need to find another club. I would love to find out how many of the guys behind you have never crashed. We have a couple of those. Oh, their planes have had sudden and catastrophic meetings with Mother Earth but it was never their fault so it doesn't count as a crash. (Yeah.... Right!)

Good Luck and keep on trying.

Cheers

Gord

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

What is the insinuation ?

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

He set it up....I dont know.

Seemed like it was hauling butt..... so fast Iam notgoing to try it again.

Ill get an eletric glider and go to a park and get my slow on.

I am not going touch the sim as it very unrealistic as to the speed

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

Once you get it down...you will want that speed back. lol

Im at the point now where it feels like all of my planes are too slow. Fastest thing Im flying at the moment is a stock Stryker "C" model and that is just under 80MPH out of a dive.

When I first flew my trainer....WOT on the little .46 glow seemed like it was too fast. But again...once I learned and got my nerves under control, it became so slow that I ended up selling it and the backup trainer I had. Just didnt find it fun to fly them any more because they were slow reacting and slow in speed.

You will get there...and when you do, you'll be having a blast!

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;"><span style="font-size: larger;"><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0);">It's called throttle management ... on mode 2 xmitters it is accomplished with the left stick ... the right stick on mode 1's ... Flying in a park with a electric glider is a viable solution also good luck to ya, seriosuly hope ya succed. It's about having a good time and the satisfaction of doing it safely.</span></span></span>

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

Not sure if serious.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

I see folks flying and it does seem so relaxed .......like I can fly on the sim.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

When the plane is screaming around at full throttle it does seem fast to a beginner, after you get some time on a trainer
full speed is actually kind of slow, your first flight you were unable to keep up with the plane, after a while the plane won't
be able to do what you want it to. when you move up to a more advanced plane that too will seem fast and very responsive.
Once you get the hang of it you will start to look like one of those guys that is relaxed and enjoying yourself. Flying RC airplanes
is all about stick time and practice. Sorry about your loss of the PT60, my first trainer was a PT40 that I built myself, what an
awesome feeling when my instructor took off and I saw the plane I built fly around, the scariest part was when I flew it myself.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

Ask around at your club to see if there are any instructors who teach on their own planes. That will get you back in the air and chances are their planes are set up perfectly, letting you see what it's supposed to fly like.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

Auger, you think your situation is tragic. My first rc plane was a Midwest Sweet Stick (my parents bought me the Falcon 56) out of paper route money. I built a warp in the wing. It looped on the runway and crashed in less than 10 seconds. My sister had a laugh when I walked into the back yard gate with a half a wing and a fuselage under my arm. "That is so great. You spent all winter building it and you crashed it the first time out".

Keep it up it take time. Sometimes decades.

Jim

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I am reading on another forum that it is the trainees responsibility to insure the instructor is competent.......

I asked the club VP and Pres who I should reach out to, then followed their advice and his direction.....although he left the most critical decision to me and I failed.

That is pretty whacked.

I am kinda starting to get pissed.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

Auger, A little bit of tough love here....in the hobby of rc airplanes, it is a guarentee you are going to crash the plane you invested time, money, or time and money into. No one likes to crash, but it's not a matter of if, it's when! If you stick with this hobby you will crash another plane one day. I drove my first trainer into the concrete so hard, I picked up the piston and connectiong rod! That made me want to learn even more. If you are struggling this much with your first crash, this much internal angst; maybe you're right you don't have it, and RC planes are not for you. If this experience has left you wanting to get back out and show those same guys you crashed in front of, that you can fly a RC plane, then you do have. It just needs to be refined some. I've been flying for two years and have passed my instructors skills. I have been asked to maiden planes by some of the same people that watched that crash. Time to "man up" and move on! (Hopefully into another plane, and back to that same field)


JP

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

Can I be more clear as to crashing and the inevitablity thereof

Crashing within 3 minutes of the first flight of the plane (my first time ever with a Tx in hand) with an instructor at my side (directed to me by the "club"), recommended trainers, recommended simulator

I did what I was supposed to do....I thought....and from I what read here.

Now I seeI didnt choose or vet my instructor properly (still trying to figure that out), I needed to request the buddy box, I make the critical decisionsduring training and Ineed to man up.

Well I will "man up" and break the VIsa outand hope I find the right instructor while I smoke planes into the dirt until I get it right.

As Iread more about clubs and newbs perhaps this was the way to vet me from the club.

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dupe</p>

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

AugerDawger Guess RC Flying ain't for you ...Got a Sail Boat I'll Sell ya Cheap . U'll havve to furnish ur own lawn chair and Beer thou ..........

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

Great so butt out of my thread or do you find joy in potshots at folks looking for help hardtail ?

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;"><span style="font-size: xx-large;"><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0);">Sorry ... <span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0);">But it sounds like U don't want help U just want to feel sorry for your self ... <span style="font-size: larger;"><span style="font-size: small;">just get another plane and learn to fly
Question Why doesn't your profile show where you are from?
</span></span></span></span></span></span>

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

Not going to butt out eh....keep coming back?

Nice.

Perhaps your superiority prevents you from seeing....the help yougive is the same help that got me where I am today and my fear of spending time and money to follow the same courseand expectdifferent results?

I did my due dillegence and exactly what was suggested....even choose a gold level AMA club and followed their direction....whatever that is.


My profile doesnt show whereI am from causeIam not going to identify the club or instructor as Ifelt they where nice to me. Ijust didnt realize the owness to make decisions is completly on me as the student......much different than real flight instruction.Now Ido.

Though I dont suspect the student calling the shots is going to go over well either.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

This is what we call a "tell".

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

This is what we call seven typed words on a screen that you choose to assign your interpretation as the absolute absent any inflections, tone or in person nuances to really determine that.

So you can roll at the shots at me you want...no worries here.....on the topic.

How would specifically would you vet an instructor and next $300investment ?

AMAGold status, executive personal recommendation of instructors really didnt work the first time....though I repeatedly take personal accountability (thats how we roll here) as I took the Tx from him so Iown it. Now I learn I really shouldnt have been put in the position to make that decision nor by today's standards / technologyeven necessary.

Go on thinking it is a pitty party as much as you think it is about being upset about "crashing" in the broadest sense of the term.

I wait for your keen insight and mentorship on the vetting standards.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

I have not read the entire thread. I saw posts saying to get an LT40 and another engine. You already have a 60 size engine so I think getting another 60 size trainer makes more sense.

Building another PT-60 is not a bad choice. You know how to build it so the second will go together quicker than the first.

I'd probably just get an arf for learning and possibly go ahead and start a kit build of a 'second' plane

Tower trainer 60 arf is $145 with free shipping http://www3.omnimodels.com/cgi-bin/w...I=TOWA1130&P=0

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

This is good. Thanks. If I can tame the .60 slow enough.

I am not certain that it was not set WFO as he said before he handed it to me.....it is fast and real sensitive.

Here is the TX.........O'kay.....3 pretty controlled level turns later...on the 4th ......dirt nap.

Maybe I learned something and have changed my style a bit on the sim this morningby flying super fast, close and real high. The turns Iwas previously making were way too long and didnt require aggressive up elevator......more riding out the coordinated bank.

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Might I suggest you look at a Hobbistar MK 60. Simi-symmetrical airfoil. At our airfield, we use it for a first and second airplane, wind surfing, towing gliders, etc. The airfoil also allows the airplane to some basic manuvers quite well.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

Models do seem to go a lot faster in real life than the ones in RealFlight. I never got used to RF, small screen compared to huge sky, so I gave up on it.

I used the APC 13X4W prop on my first PT-60 with a .61 two stroke. It definitely helped with slow flight but it still seemed pretty fast
http://www3.omnimodels.com/cgi-bin/w...I=APCQ3040&P=7

The spinner I had wouldn't fit the wide prop blades, and I didn't want to cut it at the time, so I just used an aluminum prop nut like this one
http://www3.omnimodels.com/cgi-bin/w...I=GPMQ4631&P=0

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

AugerDawger, never mind the flamers. Your frustration is very reasonable and to be expected. You did do everything right, except maybe researching what the typical training process is. It's obvious that your instructor thought your flying skills were better than they were, otherwise he would have probably buddy boxed you. Your club leadership aren't going to send you to an instructor with a track record of crashing trainers, so you gotta assume that the guy made an honest effort and did what he thought was right. He missed the mark for sure, but everybody makes mistakes, right?
In the grand scheme of things, this is a speed bump in your learning process. I'd be scanning your local classifieds and Craigslist for a used trainer. They can sometimes be picked up very cheaply, especially if it's an airframe only. Get back out there with another instructor and overcome the initial failure.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

It is not that you fail, it is how you handle the failure... Instructors have failures too... we learn from them... I have had a couple, I have also had a great number of saves during the same time. As I get more experienced as an instructor, I know what to be looking for and often take the plane away before the student needs a hail mary save. Teaching what happened and why I took the plane away is part of the learning process.

I am a total proponent of flying the simulator in preparation of flying. In my case, I landed on the first lesson. I still had a lot to learn and practice... In fact, I did not realize that I had been soloed because of the non-descript language used... I went back for a second solo attempt. As a personal choice, I will not fly a student without a buddy box being used.... especially the first time out. I recently helped a long time RC pilot back in after a two year lay off... we did some buddy box and got his skills back current and then I turned him loose for some fun... over a period of a week or two. Same thing in GA planes; sometimes you need to brush off the cob webs and get thinking again.

Hope the OP hangs in there... the reward is worth it... sorry about the demise of the plane... there will be more... always your fault, but sometimes beyond your direct control.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

Nothing wrong with an ARF, especially for this. If I stuff my NexSTAR and ruin the wing I can have it airborne again within three days. Just buy a new wing off Tower. Same goes for the fuse, tail feathers, landing gear, motor mount, etc, all the major parts. Buy a new part, have it back up in the air within a week.

Best part is I can take the broken part back to the bench and learn how to repair it without the pressure of "Plane's broken, want to fly, can't fly till fixed" making me rush it and potentially mess it up.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

I'm not so sure there's enough information here for a new pilot. Let's see, how exactly would a new pilot do this? Go ask around.....sure that's a good thing to do. Of course you're first instinct would be to ask around the club you just picked to start learning at and if the members of that same club were the ones that directed you towards a certain instructor, just what kind of answers would one expect to get? So how does one go about making sure the instructor is competent?

You've pretty much already "manned up" since you took responsibility for the crash. I'm still of the opinion that the unidentified instructor did you wrong.

I have a decal that I'll be plastering on my trailer when the weather warms up. It's kind of my take on the best of the best in this hobby. It says "Build, Fly, Crash, Rebuild".

Keep at it, don't get discouraged to the point that it whips you, and keep looking for another instructor. I had 3 of them while I was learning. I did that because everyone has their own way and none of them are the only way. Matter of fact when I go flying, I fly with two of the three. We've become good friends and I learn from them every time I go. There isn't anything wrong with having more than one instructor, and I for one would encourage it. You'll find one that makes you more comfortable than the others and because of that, you'll learn more faster because the two of you will listen to each other.

Oh, and since you like to build, keep that part going. Nothing wrong with an ARF but by golly you can't beat the feeling you get when the wood you glued together gets off the ground for the first time!

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I don't think this hobby is for you... On that first flight... you could have handed the radio to the instructor earlier... you could have refused to fly... you could have asked for the buddy box... you could have flown more on the simulator... but you chose to wear the big boy pants... but now that the result has occurred, stop trying to place blame. You had the controls in your hand, you could have throttled back. There are no certainties in this hobby. Do not fly what you cannot afford to loose. That is the harsh reality of things. Instructors are doing you a big favor, they are not charging to teach you to fly. Some guys that are very good pilots refuse to instruct for this very reason. You have to expect some mistakes on every ones part.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

I don't think encouraging him to ragequit the hobby is the right course of action.


My recommendation is to get an ARF or RTF and learn to fly on that. Crashing an ARF or RTF is nowhere near as big a deal because nowhere near as much effort went into getting it airborne. This also means a less nervous first few flights, which can only help one learn to fly.


Nothing wrong with a kit built aircraft, I'll have a few in my hangar in due time myself, but I don't feel it's a suitable first time aircraft when there's so many ARFs out there that will teach you to fly without breaking your heart when they auger in at 80MPH.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

That might be a little harsh.........perhaps. When you're flying for the first time, you don't have the luxury of having that real experience to guide you. That's why there are instructors. The sim isn't real. I believe that most would agree. A great tool, yes, real........no.

There are some things that perhaps he should have done differently but he took the responsibility. Now it seems some would rather chastise him than encourage. Lot of help that is.

My pennies.

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A little harsh maybe... but it is also sugar coating it to tell wannabees that they can fly for $200, $300, $400, $500 (take your pick)... with all the upside, there is a downside. I know experienced guys that are bummed out for weeks after loosing a plane (usually they are much more expensive than $300).. This hobby is a roulette wheel with no financial payoff, only expenses.

It is not a hobby for someone on a minimal budget. This needs to be explained to more people before they purchase their first plane. If the potential pilot spends everything they have to get their first plane, of course they are going to have a huge disappointment when it crashes (notice I said when, not if) Of my original planes, only one survives to this date. I remember every one of my crashes like it was yesterday.... they don't hurt now as much as they did then. I am used to disappointment at the field.

Harsh?? Maybe, realist... definitely!

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

Now that's just wrong. There's plenty of ways to get into this hobby without dropping huge bucks. 99 bucks will buy you a foamy fixed wing or coaxial indoor heli, both hobby grade, that you have to be trying to break. You can build SPADs, where the only cost involved is that of the running gear. You can limit yourself to one or two planes. There's also surface RCs. A cheap little airboat can be built with about ten bucks worth of wood, a second-hand .46 with a pusher prop, two S3003 servos and a $40 AM pistol grip radio. Total investment is under a hundred bucks, and it's the most fun you'll have with a propeller that doesn't leave the surface.



Trust me on this one, I know firsthand. I live on a "Should I buy that glow plug or will I need that 4.99 for lunch tomorrow?" budget. I live on a budget where I can either buy AMA insurance and not be able to afford the gas to drive to the field or buy the gas and not have the AMA card needed to fly when I get there. ON TOP OF THAT I'm a PC gamer, it's what I do when I'm not running my RCs. PC gamers have it even worse than RCers as far as equipment costs go...oh, and you ninnies whinging about glow fuel costs should try spending sixty bucks on a game that you're bored of 12 hours later. You'll swear the glow fuel is free after doing that for a month.


I manage just fine despite. You do not need to be deep pocketed to enjoy RC.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

Let's be real then shall we?

The guy has say $300 tied up in a plane. He goes to a field and finds himself an instructor. 99% of the people on here will tell you that's the thing you need to do, that you can't teach yourself. Other than simulator experience, some building experience and a group of people watching his first go at flying an actual plane, he has little to go on.

So this so called instructor looks over the plane, or at least we hope he does, and off they go to the runway. The student knows what a buddy box is, wonders about using one, but this instructor doesn't even mention it. Not even a question as to if the student would or wouldn't like to use one........for safety sake if nothing else. That might have been the only mistake I can see the student in this case making.

So, sometime in the first few minutes of flying this newly built plane, this instructor hands off the tx to the student. I'm not sure that there would have been enough time with the tx in the hands of the instructor to trim it correctly but let's say there was. First time in the air for the student and imagine the surprised look on the instructor's face when he realizes that this guy pushes left aileron when the plane is coming at him. Should have been the right aileron. The student is dumbstruck because he didn't expect that to happen (and I don't care who says they've never done that it's a lie) but there isn't time for the instructor to grab the tx out of the hands of the student to correct and save it.

Now having said all that, when there weren't buddy boxes that may have been common and the instructor might have handled it differently. Perhaps the instructor would have had more awareness to the fact that something like that might happen and have watched closer, talked the student through a maneuver making sure he understood what to expect before hand, directed or called out what he wanted the student to do..........shoot I don't know. There are a ton of circumstances that could have been.

Now the student has a bag of sticks. A bunch of guys in the pits laughing. Of course there is also the inevitable "I don't thing this hobby is for you" comment that he'll get on the beginners forum of some RC website.

Now he reads somewhere that the student is suppose to check to be sure that the instructor is competent. Seems basackwards to me. He'll also have to go shell out more of his minimal budget as you said, to get himself back in the air and give it another try with someone else as an instructor that might just be as incompetent as the first! Holy crap this is fun!

Yes, we all crash. Some sooner, some later but it's going to happen. You say you remember every one of yours. How did that first one feel? I remember mine and I'm glad that no one was there to see it. You'll have more, I'll have more and he will as well.

I don't know. Get off his case. He'll learn how to fly provided he keeps at it. He'll learn what it costs provided he keeps at it. Someday maybe he'll be able to teach someone else but when and if that time comes, he'll remember how it was for him and I can assure you he'll do a better job than the guy he started with. He certainly doesn't need someone telling him that even though you don't know him from Adam, you don't think he should be in this hobby. That's wrong.

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

Some of us have a natural love / gift of flying .  For the naturals , Nothing is going to stop us!  We pick up the crash and move on.<div>
</div><div>Others have a mechanical way of learning.  And it takes more time. But anyone can learn. And a crash just makes you better.</div>

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

http://www.franktiano.com/MonsterPla...lbum/index.htm

Even the best pilots have a bad day. Check out a mid-air of two giant biplanes.
I guarantee you every Top pilot has crashed many good airplane getting to that level.


Seeing if I can post from this new IPad. More to follow

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

There has been some good advise here, like Jesters and others.

IMO your instructor was lacking any did you no favors. Find a new instructor and move forward.
I have known students who will not let someone else take up their new baby and others who ask for help.
In my experiences, those who continue to ask for help will receive the rewards. I still ask our Top Gun pilot for help now and then as I value his experience and protect my time/money in my planes.

To help with the transition from simulator to real, suggest you get another instructor and discuss the new first flight as follows:instructor does the entire flight, , trims out the plane, showis you what the pattern looks like, shows you a loop, a roll, a stall, and a few nice approaches and then lands. Know you can see what your plane looks like. Next flight, you get the sticks, instructor on buddy box, and you start the learning process towards solo.

Honestly, I have crashed at every new level I tried, intermediate, pattern, 1/4 midget, formula one racers, scale, warbirds, big gas pattern, jets, my own design, and even a glider I snapped the wings on the high start launch.

Every level has new challenges, complexities and flight characteristics. But you can work your way thru it and accomplish your goals. Gravity still sucks but you can beat it for some awesome flying time.

You are not alone. Things go bad.
I sold my Yamaha moto-cross bike to get into RC back in high school as I wanted to fly more than eat dirt. Funny RC lets me do both!
I still have my broken prop in my workshop as I earned it. "first solo, Sep '1978"

Give it another shot with another instructor. They joy of FLYING is well worth it!

RE: I Dont Have IT
 

I cut the tail off of my trainer that went full throttle into the concrete. It's still the garage waiting to be made into a plaque for the wall!

On the topic of cost that has come up, yes, the hobby always costs more than the beginner thinks it's going to. That said, nearly any budget can do the hobby. It just means expanding your hangar slower than you'd like, flying less often that you'd like, and generally living within your means.