Building the Flea-Fly
09-20-2010 | 05:16 PM
#26
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
Johnkpap,
You did nswer my post but the question wasn't for me I read.
It is a situation in which I can help you so I give you my opinion.
When the movement of the connection rod between the bell cranks is less, as I can see on the picture and you write it, there is only one important solution to use, try to find a bigger servo lever.
Very important to reduce the play.
Next step, bellcranks no gain and no reduction, 1:1
Levers on the ailerons to adjust the throw but never to short.
It has also to do with vibrations later during flights.
The more movement of the connection rods the less forces!
If any reduction is needed you can reduce the throw on the bellcranks for example 1 : 0,8
Easiest way to have the best result.
I keep my answer short but when there are questions Of course I will answer them.
Cees
You did nswer my post but the question wasn't for me I read.
It is a situation in which I can help you so I give you my opinion.
When the movement of the connection rod between the bell cranks is less, as I can see on the picture and you write it, there is only one important solution to use, try to find a bigger servo lever.
Very important to reduce the play.
Next step, bellcranks no gain and no reduction, 1:1
Levers on the ailerons to adjust the throw but never to short.
It has also to do with vibrations later during flights.
The more movement of the connection rods the less forces!
If any reduction is needed you can reduce the throw on the bellcranks for example 1 : 0,8
Easiest way to have the best result.
I keep my answer short but when there are questions Of course I will answer them.
Cees
09-20-2010 | 06:53 PM
#27
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RE: Building the Flea-Fly
ORIGINAL: ntsmith
I did think of going the two aileron route. This has drawbacks. Twice the servo current which gives shorter flight sessions and increases the roll inertia so I stayed with what I found to be the most solid dependable method I could adopt and that was not far from the original. I did add some clevises for assembly adjustment at the bellcrank end and I did add a 90degree kink to the servo for security. It turns out I can get the hole to be altered quite easily if I want to adjust the throw at the servo end although I think it will not be needed. There is only one rod from end to end to eliminate any slop which is the last think I want. There is a geared down drive to the servo by the use of different lengths of the bellcrank.
I am not sure what the amount of throw should be but I am certain that no differential was used on the original. Mine had just enough so that if there was any chance of the lower aileron being more than the upper one this should eliminate it.
I have today been trying to fit the steering linkage. Good fun (it isnt). However I am getting there slowly. A smaller battery pack may help. I ordered one today (800maH) and the fuel tank looks like the Kavan Flexi tank will be the one to use. We will see.
I did think of going the two aileron route. This has drawbacks. Twice the servo current which gives shorter flight sessions and increases the roll inertia so I stayed with what I found to be the most solid dependable method I could adopt and that was not far from the original. I did add some clevises for assembly adjustment at the bellcrank end and I did add a 90degree kink to the servo for security. It turns out I can get the hole to be altered quite easily if I want to adjust the throw at the servo end although I think it will not be needed. There is only one rod from end to end to eliminate any slop which is the last think I want. There is a geared down drive to the servo by the use of different lengths of the bellcrank.
I am not sure what the amount of throw should be but I am certain that no differential was used on the original. Mine had just enough so that if there was any chance of the lower aileron being more than the upper one this should eliminate it.
I have today been trying to fit the steering linkage. Good fun (it isnt). However I am getting there slowly. A smaller battery pack may help. I ordered one today (800maH) and the fuel tank looks like the Kavan Flexi tank will be the one to use. We will see.
That said, It's a flea fly, there's extra point for staying true to the original!
09-21-2010 | 02:39 AM
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RE: Building the Flea-Fly
Ok Moving on ......
Nigel
Are you going to use Mini servos for everything or just use standard ones ?
I am going to just use what is at hand and fits nice....currently I have a Futaba S148 and 2x Sanwa 102 in my Servo box collecting dust.
I also found that a JR servo tray fits in nice as well.
How are you progressing with the stearing linkage?
Johnkpap
Nigel
Are you going to use Mini servos for everything or just use standard ones ?
I am going to just use what is at hand and fits nice....currently I have a Futaba S148 and 2x Sanwa 102 in my Servo box collecting dust.
I also found that a JR servo tray fits in nice as well.
How are you progressing with the stearing linkage?
Johnkpap
09-21-2010 | 03:50 AM
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From: Bishop\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'s Stortford,
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
Steering is done 
That was a big hurdle and I just have the ailerons to face up and attach using solarfim. Every thing is down hill from here. I used the Kavan 4oz flexi tank in the end as it was the only one that let me get the battery linkage and fuel tank in to that small bay. I am doing a final sanding down in preparation for starting covering. I probably will cover the elevators then the stab then the rudder then the vertical stab under rear fuz front fuz and the wing some where along the line.
The servos are what I have used on similar fast small aircraft, a Turnigy HD Mini Servo 16g, these are just about the right size. The wing will only have one servo as although the current is only marginaly higher with two the fact is that it takes 100percent more with two than the one in the centre. A S148 would fit fine but normal servos are going to clutter that small fuz very quickly.
Post some pics of your installation; it will make an interesting comparison.
That was a big hurdle and I just have the ailerons to face up and attach using solarfim. Every thing is down hill from here. I used the Kavan 4oz flexi tank in the end as it was the only one that let me get the battery linkage and fuel tank in to that small bay. I am doing a final sanding down in preparation for starting covering. I probably will cover the elevators then the stab then the rudder then the vertical stab under rear fuz front fuz and the wing some where along the line.The servos are what I have used on similar fast small aircraft, a Turnigy HD Mini Servo 16g, these are just about the right size. The wing will only have one servo as although the current is only marginaly higher with two the fact is that it takes 100percent more with two than the one in the centre. A S148 would fit fine but normal servos are going to clutter that small fuz very quickly.
Post some pics of your installation; it will make an interesting comparison.
09-21-2010 | 04:19 AM
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RE: Building the Flea-Fly
Good to hear you got the steering sorted .....I haven't got there yet.
I am going to Use the KAVAN tank that I have it is the best fit, I will post Photo's of my servo install once It is sorted.
Are you going to use a 1:2 or 1:1 ratio on your bell cranks?
Solar film hinges thats a good Idea
no gap on ailerons ...Thanks
Johnkpap
I am going to Use the KAVAN tank that I have it is the best fit, I will post Photo's of my servo install once It is sorted.
Are you going to use a 1:2 or 1:1 ratio on your bell cranks?
Solar film hinges thats a good Idea
no gap on ailerons ...ThanksJohnkpap
09-21-2010 | 05:41 AM
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From: Bishop\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'s Stortford,
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
Is it the Kavan flexi or normal slanted you are using?
Just finishing these ailerons at present then a little bit of sheeting I guess where the pushrod will exit the wing and that is about it. C o v e r i n g time.
As shown (I think) in one of my pics there is some step down on the bellcranks. I dont know (not thought about it much) but if the throw is stepped then presumably any slop is reduced down by a similar amount- normal throw = 2 in 1 out then error movemnet = 2 in 1 out. Well thats my logic
Be carefull where you mark the former(in front of the wing) for that pushrod to the steering as it is rather critical. Also I would have mounted my servos slightly deeper in the fuselage. When I fitted the tray I had on my mind accessabilty. If it is a shallow fi then you would have to take in to account the wing servo, particuarly if it is of standard size. My mini one is at least out of the way.
Have you a color scheme. I know mine will be mainly Light Orange and some Black - now who used that before ? I dont thing mine will be so elaborate though, just a few black stripes to aid orientation.
Youll still pip me to the post as I am such a SLOW builder.
Just finishing these ailerons at present then a little bit of sheeting I guess where the pushrod will exit the wing and that is about it. C o v e r i n g time.
As shown (I think) in one of my pics there is some step down on the bellcranks. I dont know (not thought about it much) but if the throw is stepped then presumably any slop is reduced down by a similar amount- normal throw = 2 in 1 out then error movemnet = 2 in 1 out. Well thats my logic
Be carefull where you mark the former(in front of the wing) for that pushrod to the steering as it is rather critical. Also I would have mounted my servos slightly deeper in the fuselage. When I fitted the tray I had on my mind accessabilty. If it is a shallow fi then you would have to take in to account the wing servo, particuarly if it is of standard size. My mini one is at least out of the way.
Have you a color scheme. I know mine will be mainly Light Orange and some Black - now who used that before ? I dont thing mine will be so elaborate though, just a few black stripes to aid orientation.
Youll still pip me to the post as I am such a SLOW builder.
09-21-2010 | 06:54 AM
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From: Bishop\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'s Stortford,
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
You can always change the hole in the servo output arm. I set mine up roughly for more than I need with the servo tester. its not usualy far off.
09-21-2010 | 06:55 AM
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RE: Building the Flea-Fly
Hi Nigel
The tank I will be using is a OLD KAVAN German one out of my parts box, it looks
like the one shown on the plan.
I am along way behind you with building, I haven't finished sanding my wing yet or attaching the tail.
I haven't decided on colours yet, Solar film is lightest of all the coverings, I have orange, red, white and some green avaliable.
Orange with a White wing stripe with red trim would also look nice
I will be installing the servos in the fuse next so I can sort the steering and throttle to the ENYA.
Finish sanding of the wing and tail.
Johnkpap
The tank I will be using is a OLD KAVAN German one out of my parts box, it looks
like the one shown on the plan.
I am along way behind you with building, I haven't finished sanding my wing yet or attaching the tail.
I haven't decided on colours yet, Solar film is lightest of all the coverings, I have orange, red, white and some green avaliable.
Orange with a White wing stripe with red trim would also look nice
I will be installing the servos in the fuse next so I can sort the steering and throttle to the ENYA.
Finish sanding of the wing and tail.
Johnkpap
09-21-2010 | 07:08 AM
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From: Bishop\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'s Stortford,
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
My new Spektrun DX8 has just arrived so I know what radio will be in it
09-22-2010 | 06:07 AM
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From: Bishop\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'s Stortford,
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
Here are some pictures of that very filled fuel tank bay. The control horn on ehach elevator can be removed for covering purposes. Thought I'd throw a picture of that in too.
09-22-2010 | 06:12 AM
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From: Bishop\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'s Stortford,
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
My pics came far too large. Can they be edited after being posted?
09-22-2010 | 04:50 PM
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From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
Ok I have installed my Throttle linkage and Steering linkage,
I have tried to keep it a simple as possible and take up the least amount of space as I am using
Full size servos. I Used a IM clamp style Engine mount so I can get the ENYA out Easy with a Dubro Ball link on the Throttle,
there is not alot of room in the Engine bay or the tank area so I just used thin piano wire through a plastic tube, with a Z bend at each servo.
The fuel tank looks like a Problem, I am still thinking on this one.
I have started sanding and shaping my wing and will be doing the Ailerons next .....This is going to be a Pain in the A@#E [
]
Johnkpap
I have tried to keep it a simple as possible and take up the least amount of space as I am using
Full size servos. I Used a IM clamp style Engine mount so I can get the ENYA out Easy with a Dubro Ball link on the Throttle,
there is not alot of room in the Engine bay or the tank area so I just used thin piano wire through a plastic tube, with a Z bend at each servo.
The fuel tank looks like a Problem, I am still thinking on this one.
I have started sanding and shaping my wing and will be doing the Ailerons next .....This is going to be a Pain in the A@#E [
]Johnkpap
09-22-2010 | 06:14 PM
#39
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
Nice solder work - worth noting.
Can ya rotate that cap and grommet 180 degrees so the lines are on the upper side or maybe on the left side?
Can ya rotate that cap and grommet 180 degrees so the lines are on the upper side or maybe on the left side?
ORIGINAL: AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken
Looking great!
You might want to bend that brass tubing toward the hole in the firewall so that fuel line doesn't split from the sharp edge of the tubing.
Looking great!
You might want to bend that brass tubing toward the hole in the firewall so that fuel line doesn't split from the sharp edge of the tubing.
09-22-2010 | 06:55 PM
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From: Bishop\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'s Stortford,
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
The fuel tank was just shoved in for the size check. I did note in reading the Fle Fly article that the CG is at 40 percent and "you may have to add weight to the tail". Now that sounds good as it may mean the battery can come out of that rather cluttered compartment. I am not too happy at a 40 percent starting point though so I may start with 35 percent and move it back if its OK.
09-24-2010 | 08:41 AM
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From: Bishop\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'s Stortford,
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
At last its beginning to go orange. The covering has been started on the rear. Once the orange is done I hope to cover some of the top with black solarfilm but am not too optimistic this will work. Any ideas how to cover solarfilm with solarfilm anyone?
Phil Krafts also had a white line surrounding the black. God knows how that would be done with fim. It would be nice to duplicate but how liable it would be to peeling off I don't know. Not very good if I did it is the answer
Phil Krafts also had a white line surrounding the black. God knows how that would be done with fim. It would be nice to duplicate but how liable it would be to peeling off I don't know. Not very good if I did it is the answer
09-24-2010 | 05:17 PM
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From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
Good to hear you are at the covering stage,
I am along way from that, I am at the dull but important sanding stage
I should be at the Aileron cut out stage soon.
Are you going to cover the tail and elevator before you fit them to the Fuse ?
How did you go making hinges with solar film ?
I made up the fuel tubes with my Dubro bender, and decided on the PYLON tank.
Johnkpap
I am along way from that, I am at the dull but important sanding stage
I should be at the Aileron cut out stage soon.
Are you going to cover the tail and elevator before you fit them to the Fuse ?
How did you go making hinges with solar film ?
I made up the fuel tubes with my Dubro bender, and decided on the PYLON tank.
Johnkpap
09-24-2010 | 07:11 PM
#43
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From: Bishop\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'s Stortford,
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
Your tank installation looks good. Are you keeping the original rubber band hatch retainer. Seems the simplest, lightest, cheapest solution.
I wish I had a tube bender as I could do with getting these slightly better placed. No doubt some inspired idea will happen
I covered all the control surfaces first except the top surface of the ailerons as they will have about an inch wide strip to attach them, top and underneath and the top wing covering will go right over that and the ailerons - thats the theory. A few akward jobs like the control rod exits on the fuz will have a small amount around them added before the main covering is added as it makes that job alot easier. Have you added any side thrust? I hope to have about 2 or 3 degrees as advised in his article. Beware theniple on the enya silencers. They get loose. Make sure you add some locktight to it.
I wish I had a tube bender as I could do with getting these slightly better placed. No doubt some inspired idea will happen
I covered all the control surfaces first except the top surface of the ailerons as they will have about an inch wide strip to attach them, top and underneath and the top wing covering will go right over that and the ailerons - thats the theory. A few akward jobs like the control rod exits on the fuz will have a small amount around them added before the main covering is added as it makes that job alot easier. Have you added any side thrust? I hope to have about 2 or 3 degrees as advised in his article. Beware theniple on the enya silencers. They get loose. Make sure you add some locktight to it.
09-24-2010 | 09:33 PM
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From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
I use a clean Pointy soldering Iron to make Control rod Exits in plastic film.
Try it on some scrap first !!!!
Tube benders sell for around $10.00 USD worth the $$$
I will be sure to locktite everthing envolving a muffler, I don't have a spare and I suspect they are as always :-hard to find.
I will post some more pics once I have the wing/Ailerons sorted.
Thanks for the hints
I am going to use a rubber band in the hatch:- simple and works.
Looking foward to seeing it covered
Johnkpap
Try it on some scrap first !!!!
Tube benders sell for around $10.00 USD worth the $$$
I will be sure to locktite everthing envolving a muffler, I don't have a spare and I suspect they are as always :-hard to find.
I will post some more pics once I have the wing/Ailerons sorted.
Thanks for the hints
I am going to use a rubber band in the hatch:- simple and works.
Looking foward to seeing it covered
Johnkpap
09-25-2010 | 06:57 AM
#45
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RE: Building the Flea-Fly
ORIGINAL: Johnkpap
Good to hear you are at the covering stage,
I am along way from that, I am at the dull but important sanding stage
I should be at the Aileron cut out stage soon.
Are you going to cover the tail and elevator before you fit them to the Fuse ?
How did you go making hinges with solar film ?
I made up the fuel tubes with my Dubro bender, and decided on the PYLON tank.
Johnkpap
Good to hear you are at the covering stage,
I am along way from that, I am at the dull but important sanding stage
I should be at the Aileron cut out stage soon.
Are you going to cover the tail and elevator before you fit them to the Fuse ?
How did you go making hinges with solar film ?
I made up the fuel tubes with my Dubro bender, and decided on the PYLON tank.
Johnkpap
Dave
09-25-2010 | 07:55 AM
#46
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From: Bishop\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'s Stortford,
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
Cutting the tube shorter will help. Good point you picked up on there. The pic doesnt show too well but I agree with you that the tubing holes in the firewall should be a pich fit which is what they are. I have given the engine bay a coat of epoxy and painted it grey. I thought about orange but A/ I havn't any and B/ you see hardly any of it. However the firewall former (the one in front onf the tank) will have to be solarfilmed and how good that will want to remain I dont know. I may have to get some orange paint yet.
The ailerons have their solarfilm top attachment but there will be another piece covering the lower side. Should be very light and flexible when finished.
Not sure if the canopy can be attached just to the solarfilm or not. It was on my last model with no ill effects but it doesnt feel as thought it would be secure, but as I say it worked before
The ailerons have their solarfilm top attachment but there will be another piece covering the lower side. Should be very light and flexible when finished.
Not sure if the canopy can be attached just to the solarfilm or not. It was on my last model with no ill effects but it doesnt feel as thought it would be secure, but as I say it worked before
09-28-2010 | 03:35 PM
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From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
Hi Nigel
How is the covering going ?
Did the solar film hinges work well or would it be better to use CA hinges ?
I have finished sanding the wing and cutting out the Ailerons, It worked out to be easyer than I
thought it would be, I made up my Conrtol horns buy cutting down some SIG horns (SH-694)
these are a close match to the ones used on the plan.
I decided to go 1:1 on the bellcrank this gives full movement of the ailerons, I can reduce the servo's
movement in my Futaba radio if the Ailerons have too much movement when trimming the plane.
My Flea fly is getting there I have alot of finishing on the fuse before that is ready to cover.
Johnkpap
How is the covering going ?
Did the solar film hinges work well or would it be better to use CA hinges ?
I have finished sanding the wing and cutting out the Ailerons, It worked out to be easyer than I
thought it would be, I made up my Conrtol horns buy cutting down some SIG horns (SH-694)
these are a close match to the ones used on the plan.
I decided to go 1:1 on the bellcrank this gives full movement of the ailerons, I can reduce the servo's
movement in my Futaba radio if the Ailerons have too much movement when trimming the plane.
My Flea fly is getting there I have alot of finishing on the fuse before that is ready to cover.
Johnkpap
09-29-2010 | 03:42 PM
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From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
The bellcranks are standard "Great Planes"
Tower Stocks them
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK109&P=7
Johnkpap
Tower Stocks them
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK109&P=7
Johnkpap
09-29-2010 | 05:02 PM
#50
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From: Bishop\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'s Stortford,
RE: Building the Flea-Fly
Use the solarfilm. Its cheaper and more flexible. It is mylar so is as good as any hinge anyway.
