init4fun

Hi Guys , Since there is a nice gathering here of folks who appreciate the old ways I figured this would be a good place to ask a question . I have an old Ace RC Transmitter and it has had all the wiring removed years ago as it had it's original 2 tube circuit bypassed by a transistorized board . I would like to restore it back to operating condition using the original tube circuit board that's still contained within the TX but I have no schematic diagram and have not been able to find one on line . I do have a tube receiver and a Bonner escapement and my plan is to set up a working tabletop display of how the escapement functioned "back in the day" to wag the rudder as a part of a group of old RC equipment I want to display in the model plane room of my house . For background , one of my other hobbies is restoring the old tube cathedral radios of the 1930s and so vacuum tube theory is no problem here .

So , can anyone help point out a fellow old RC lover to a schematic for the Ace RC TX seen here ? (It's the silver one that says "Kraft Tone" on it)

init4fun

Here are some of the other TXs that'll be displayed alongside the (hopefully someday working) Kraft Tone TX .

Telemaster Sales UK

I'm 68 myself.

When I lived in England I remember saying to some of the younger guys in the club, that if you were to build a sports model from scratch, not only could you ensure structural integrity, you could also choose your own colour scheme. Even with a scale model you could choose from a wide variety of colour schemes; civilian or military schemes on a Tiger Moth or AT6 for example. With ARTFs you have to accept what the manufacturers provide for you. They looked at me as if I was daft.

As far as computers are concerned, you gentlemen have me at a disadvantage. I know nothing about them! .

Telemaster Sales UK

Init4fun, in the 1970s I lived in London. There is a road which runs through the northern suburbs known as the North Circular Road. There is a South Circular Road too which runs south of the river Thames. Alongside the North Circular Road was an enormous Ever Ready Factory, it was quite distinctive in its orange and blue signage. With the help of Wikipedia I've found out that it wasn't really a factory but the company's British research centre.

Ever Ready was by far the biggest manufacturer of batteries when I was growing up but the last British Ever Ready factory closed in 1996. Twenty years ago.

Globalisation?

"C'est la vie" as they say in my adopted country.

skylark-flier

Check with Vintage RC Society.

donnyman

This may take a minute a lot has been said and it all is interesting.

Computers, you gentlemen have forgotten more about them than I will ever know. but i do have a few Ideas.

I had four 36" plotters, sold two and will use the two I have left to construct at least a 24" x 48" x y table out of wood. On that table will be a gantry that will be capable of mounting any type output you want, Laser, router, pens, knives, and do 3d printing It doesn't matter. the programs availabne today are plentiful and quite versatile so why not the hardware? I will use the components from the old plotters that have the stepping motors and circuits to do the job. plans are even available for the entire setup and with a little imagination the sky is the limit. and it won't cost $8000 to do it

The only reason I don't have this setup in operation is Too many other projects. I am trying to get a shop constructed to house all this stuff but getting workers is difficult (one with skills) contractors are too expensive.

I worked for one of the biggest computer companies, We built the fastest computer in the world but my engineers could not get one. They were running programs that took three days to complete. Now I don't have a degree but common sense was never a problem. we were testing hundreds of those computers in our labs and no one had a clue what to do with them when testing completed.

when I got through we had the equivalent of two super computers at our disposal without a nickel of expense (my manager knew he was going to get busted) and the long program run time was reduced to minutes.

most of the equiptment we want is readily available and to purchase a dedicated unit is too costly so we build what we need.

With the laser cutters available today the competition is fierce I don't see how one can make a profit, even to cover the cost of setup without some very careful planning. Why cut kits that no one wants? most people today can't or won't read plans! I am doing this for myself and will share with those in need. I will try to get links to all this stuff if I can, maybe it will give you some ideas we can all profit from.

init4fun

Hi Telemaster Sales UK , I keep that battery as a display only to see folk's reactions who've never seen the original 9 Volt battery . It's empty , I remove the actual cells inside and for old batteries like that which will actually be used with old tube radios I put modern cells in place to preserve the original look . Some battery operated portable vacuum tube radios had plate voltage batteries ("B" battery) as high as 90 Volts , which can be done with 10 modern 9 volt batteries carefully stuffed into an old battery case and these last surprisingly long since it's the "A" battery and not the "B" battery that has to deliver a lot of current .

Thank You Skylark-flier , I will check into the Vintage RC Society .

spaceworm

I do that as well with old capacitors, putting good new ones inside the old shells.

init4fun

Me Too ! I will "restuff" the cans with new capacitors on any set that I believe is valuable enough to want to 100% preserve it's original appearance . For "everyday driver" tube radios I don't go to that trouble but the rare/valuable ones do have cosmetic as well as electronic considerations in the restoration .

Tell me , do you mark somewhere on the can or perhaps under the chassis to let future owners or people working on it know that it's actually a new capacitor ? I do try to put some kind of marking indicating the restuff so a future owner knows that it doesn't automatically need to be changed as most folks will (wisely) do with a just obtained radio .

Here are a few pictures I took of a restuff in progress ;

GallopingGhostler

The following has a bunch of gurus and collectors on old Ace radios, join: Ace R/C User Yahoo Group

Some time back I downloaded TX and RX schematics of my venerable Ace Pulse Commander. They most likely have what you are looking for.

init4fun

Thank You very much George , I appreciate the lead and have bookmarked that site along with the site that Skylark flyer recommended .

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Hey init4fun ever seen a battery that is the size of a 9 volt but therminals are on each end? I have an old Simpson analog meter with just such a battery, its 11 volt!

donnyman

ENVY.................

I can't deny it, I envy the knowledge many of you have to rebuild/understand electronics. I try and even have the electronic for idiots book but I guess I do not posess whatever it takes to put it all together.

What puts a twinkle in my eye is what we could accomplish as a cohesive group working toward a common goal.

with the collective knowledge we have mountains could be moved.

jwrich

My Feedback: (17)

I would like to know what New In The Box OS Gold Head 60 Complete with muffler would be worth? I still have the first one I bought in '72,of course the gold has worn off. A few years ago a friend bought out a guy who was selling all his RC stuff. He showed me the 60 and he let me have for what he paid for it. I am getting up in age and I thought about all my RC stuff, I would like for it to go to someone who would appreciate.

Thanks
Rich

GallopingGhostler

I still remember the 22.5V photoflash batteries, used to fire the old photography flash bulbs, like the M3B. They looked like a 9V transistor battery with the same style terminal clips but were slightly longer, may be a 1/4" more. Used to go to the local department or drug store to buy them. My DeMECo (Debolt Model Engineering Company) 1953 DeBolt Live Wire Kitten shows several of these as the B+ supply for 45V or 67.5V in series, for a super-regenerative tube receiver. One could also still buy the 45V B+ batteries, they were the size of a small motorcycle lead acid battery but dry. Someone gave me a 1950's 4 tube portable AM radio while I was in high school in the late 1960's. Wished I still had it as it is now a collector item.

But, considering the hassle it was to use these batteries, (although back then they weren't that expensive as they were still amply in use), the reliability of the modern radios and better crash survivability, plus greater immunity to interference doesn't make me long for those days. Plus, in the 120VAC powered electronics, the tubes got hot enough to serious burn ones fingers.

init4fun

Hi FlyerInOKC ,

Yes indeed I have seen those and I do know they are becoming just this side of unobtainum . I got SUPER lucky in that my Simpson 260 is one of the later models that did away with the special battery and instead uses a regular (today's) 9 Volt and a regular "D" cell .

I'll show a picture of the Simpson I've got , it's funny that although there were certain internal changes over the years the external appearance remained pretty much unchanged for the entire 260 model run .

init4fun

Burn the fingers ? Heck yea , the power handling tubes in any AC powered radio will give a burn equally just as bad as the burn one would get from a hot muffler on a just landed 2 stroke glow engine . To date , the largest number of tubes in a single radio I have is 14 , this is the chassis from that radio , a 1947 Westinghouse that if you look closely has the "modern" 88 to 108 FM band included (FM did exist even in the prewar days , but it was down around 55 to 60 MHZ if I recall correctly until it was "reassigned" to 88 to 108 MHZ in 1946) .

With 14 tubes drawing close to 200 watts you could heat a room with this all the while listening to Lone Ranger reruns

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Mine looks a lot like the one on the far left but shorted and wider, it still has the original leather case (a little worse for wear) and the manual!

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Init4fun,
My dad did electronics repair for the Forest Service (radio and microwave equipment) so he always had a lot of that test equipment around, I grew up around it. That's probably part of the reason I grew up with loving computers and tinkering with stuff. He gave me an old Simpson multi-meter that was probably the best meter that I ever had. When it finally died and wouldn't work any more I cried. Yes, now I can go to Harbor Freight and get a free meter that will do the same thing that the Simpson meter would do. But here's why I loved the Simpson, it was analog. With the Simpson I could have it sitting on the bench and when I put the leads on what I was tested I could see the needle move out of the corner of my eye and I didn't have to turn my head, with digital meters you have to focus on the meter to read it and I just don't like don't that.


My first days in college learning Fortan IV we started out on punch cards. So I remember the days of living on cards. I still remember one of the funniest things (well not funny now that I'm and "adult" and supposed to know better) was watching some poor guy running across campus trying to get to the computer lab on time to run his program before it was due and tripping and dropping all his cards, the wind picking them up and blowing them all across campus. Watching that poor guy trying to get all his cards and then try to get them back in sequence was so painful to watch all you could do was laugh. Luckily I didn't have to live with cards long, because by the time I started my freshman year they replaced the punch cards with terminals. Yes, you read that right. I lived in the same town I went to college in. So I was actually taking some college courses while I was still doing my senior year in high school.

Ken

init4fun

Nice , the older test instruments are really the best to use when repairing old tube equipment because the old meters would load the circuit in a certain way when taking the reading while the newer digital meters don't load the circuit nearly as much . The problem of course being that when working from a schematic that specifies for instance 165 volts on a tube's plate , that 165 measurement was specified with a "10K ohms per volt" meter where today's meters load the circuit much less and that 165 volt reading may actually read 175 or 180 due the newer meter's more efficient measuring abilities .

init4fun

Hi Ken ,

I have read about your computer experience and God bless you , It's great that you were able to take computers , make them your own , and make money setting them up and servicing them . You at 51 are the perfect age to have grown up with computers as they grew stronger and more capable and I'll bet you've seen some pretty amazing changes & developments over the years . I will be the first to tell you that while I'm very experienced with the tube electronics ( I made some good side money as a TV repairman in the 60s and 70s) I don't know hardly anything about the Transistorized/Digital equipment that you work on since the old electronics are what I grew up with and my only formal training is my A&P mechanic's rating .

When you come right down to it , it seems just about all RCers have some kind of other electrical/mechanical interest , and that nature of wanting to tinker with things is perfectly suited to our hobby .

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Dad was a commercial refrigeration Mechanic (37 ton or larger) so he used it on the controls. When he was still working there were only 3 men left who could still work on one type of large Chrysler built units. As far as I know there aren't any left. He started working on ammonia refrigeration and ended up working on large chillers and boilers when he finally had to retire due to health.

init4fun

Gotta admit I was always a bit nervous around big HVAC systems , the thoughts of leaks & such and to end up breathing the stuff being enough to keep me from wanting to work on any of that equipment . A specialty for sure , HVAC is , with safety protocols all of it's own .


Here , I'll show ya my idea of a fun afternoon , these are two pictures from when I replaced the crankshaft bearings on my Saito 270 . There were like 75 pictures in total but these two show it the best .

PS , there were two more C clamps you couldn't see in the picture for 3 total holding that monster to the back stairs ...

acdii

What are those black cases?

I have done auto AC so have quite a good understanding of all HVAC, including RV Refers. The way you use heat to make cold in one is really interesting, and must have been how they did it way back when with Ammonia and Hydrogen and water.

init4fun

Hi acdii ,

Those were two of those 12 volt car jumpstart boxes that I had taken and mounted an RC powerpanel and a couple of chargers to for turning the starter and charging the RX batteries at the field . They lasted about 5 or 6 years till the batteries inside them died and so now I have a more modest toolbox modified with the power panel and a replaceable battery . It took two of them in series powering my 24 volt Sullivan starter to crank over the 270 but most smaller engines up to my ASP 91 fourstroke start fine with the single battery .