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AMA Useless!

Old 12-14-2015, 08:19 AM
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RC_Fanatic
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Angry AMA Useless!

So now I need to pay $5 every three years and register all my fixed wing sport aircraft with the government. The AMA is useless to protect the hobbyist's interests. Time for the "leaders" to resign.
Old 12-14-2015, 08:23 AM
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porcia83
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No, that is incorrect. Read this:

http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/20151213_IFR.pdf

Not sure how the current admin nor future admins are supposed to change the minds of the Federal Govt.

Good topic for the AMA threads, there might be one or two of them already started on the topic.
Old 12-14-2015, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
No, that is incorrect. Read this:

http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/20151213_IFR.pdf

Not sure how the current admin nor future admins are supposed to change the minds of the Federal Govt.

Good topic for the AMA threads, there might be one or two of them already started on the topic.
I read the summary section, not the entire 211 pages, and it applies to all unmanned aircraft in the weight range. I see no exemption for hobbyist use. We can register all our planes at once if for only hobby use but there is no exemption.

I posted here as many do not read the AMA section.
Old 12-14-2015, 08:35 AM
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uhhhh-huh...

###

Last edited by cublover; 12-14-2015 at 08:40 AM.
Old 12-14-2015, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cublover View Post
Press Release – FAA Announces Small UAS Registration Rule


For Immediate Release

December 14, 2015
Contact: Les Dorr or Alison Duquette
Phone: (202) 267-3883
Registration will be free for the first 30 days

[HR][/HR]WASHINGTON – The U.S. Department of Transportation’s Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) today announced a streamlined and user-friendly web-based aircraft registration process for owners of small unmanned aircraft (UAS) weighing more than 0.55 pounds (250 grams) and less than 55 pounds (approx. 25 kilograms) including payloads such as on-board cameras.
The Registration Task Force delivered recommendations to FAA Administrator Michael Huerta and Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx on November 21. The rule incorporates many of the task force recommendations.
“Make no mistake: unmanned aircraft enthusiast are aviators, and with that title comes a great deal of responsibility,” said U.S. Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx. “Registration gives us an opportunity to work with these users to operate their unmanned aircraft safely. I’m excited to welcome these new aviators into the culture of safety and responsibility that defines American innovation.”
Registration is a statutory requirement that applies to all aircraft. Under this rule, any owner of a small UAS who has previously operated an unmanned aircraft exclusively as a model aircraft prior to December 21, 2015, must register no later than February 19, 2016. Owners of any other UAS purchased for use as a model aircraft after December 21, 2015 must register before the first flight outdoors. Owners may use either the paper-based process or the new streamlined, web-based system. Owners using the new streamlined web-based system must be at least 13 years old to register.
Owners may register through a web-based system at www.faa.gov/uas/registration
Registrants will need to provide their name, home address and e-mail address. Upon completion of the registration process, the web application will generate a Certificate of Aircraft Registration/Proof of Ownership that will include a unique identification number for the UAS owner, which must be marked on the aircraft.
Owners using the model aircraft for hobby or recreation will only have to register once and may use the same identification number for all of their model UAS. The registration is valid for three years.
The normal registration fee is $5, but in an effort to encourage as many people as possible to register quickly, the FAA is waiving this fee for the first 30 days (from Dec. 21, 2015 to Jan 20, 2016).
“We expect hundreds of thousands of model unmanned aircraft will be purchased this holiday season,” said FAA Administrator Huerta. “Registration gives us the opportunity to educate these new airspace users before they fly so they know the airspace rules and understand they are accountable to the public for flying responsibly.”
The online registration system does not yet support registration of small UAS used for any purpose other than hobby or recreation – for example, using an unmanned aircraft in connection with a business. The FAA is developing enhancements that will allow such online registrations by spring of 2016.
The full rule can be viewed here:www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/20151213_IFR.pdf

###

MOST of us knew this was coming... lots of Idiots fly'n around..... Again.,...I'm an Outlaw... so sick of all the bull!! The government is in ALL of our business !!
Old 12-14-2015, 10:37 AM
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http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/20151213_IFR.pdf

I have just done a quick read of the document. Luckily I have been keeping up with this so I'm pretty familiar with most of it. To save you with having to read it all you can get the down and dirty info on who, what, how, and how much it is going to cost on page 31 of the document. But to answer your initial fears there is no cost to register your planes. Also, you only have to register once and that will then cover all of the planes that you own.

And yes, many do agree with you that the AMA could have done a better job in protecting us "regular plane/heli" flyers. But it is what is now and we have to live with it.

Ken
Old 12-14-2015, 11:07 AM
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Well, I stand corrected. I found this FAQ that does seem to back up what the OP said. It does seem to be a $5 registration fee. Here is the FAQ I found

http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/#use

Wow, not only are we getting screwed but we're not even getting a reach around!!! that's rough!!!

Ken
Old 12-14-2015, 12:58 PM
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If you register in the first 30 days, they say they will refund the $5. However, you need to re-register for $5 every three years. It's not so much the money, but now the feds have all your information, including social security and credit card numbers in a data base. Government data bases are anything but secure! Another unwanted intrusion into our privacy and another chance for hackers to get our information. And what difference will it make? The law says you can't make pipe bombs but that doesn't stop those who are out to cause trouble. You can be sure that every "drone" that kills or creates a problem will not have the proper FAA markings.

I thought the feds passed a law that exempted those of us who belong to AMA from FAA regulations. However, like the EPA, laws are irrelevant to these bureaucracies.
Old 12-14-2015, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RC_Fanatic View Post
I thought the feds passed a law that exempted those of us who belong to AMA from FAA regulations.
Check out page 155. FAA discusses their basis for saying the language of PL112-95, specifically section 336 prohibition on rules on model aircraft, do not apply to this rule.
Old 12-14-2015, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RCKen View Post
Well, I stand corrected. I found this FAQ that does seem to back up what the OP said. It does seem to be a $5 registration fee. Here is the FAQ I found

http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/#use

Wow, not only are we getting screwed but we're not even getting a reach around!!! that's rough!!!

Ken
Hi Ken ,

My biggest worry here is that we have now begun sliding down the "slippery slope" of govt. regulation and once started there is no end to the additional hoops we'll be forced to jump through in future years . Today's $5 registration fee could easily become tomorrow's "background check" before purchase is allowed , just like is presently practiced with firearms . Down in the AMA forum it seems most agree that this is nothing more than "feel good legislation" since only us law abiding folks will be registering . Outlaw flyers will care about as much about this as outlaw bikers care about getting a motorcycle specific driver's license , in other words this does nothing but harass the law abiding while the outlaw (who caused the unwanted attention in the first place) will go on flying illegally ...
Old 12-14-2015, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RCKen View Post
Wow, not only are we getting screwed but we're not even getting a reach around!!! that's rough!!!
Yeah, I wonder if AMA leadership will regroup and fundamentally rethink their strategy from this point forward. It's tough to look at the report card for the $1,000,000 spent thus far:

Exempt model aircraft from registration - not adopted
Allow use of AMA number in lieu of registration number - not adopted
FAA doesn't have the authority to do this under 336 - not adopted
Letter writing campaign and their three recommended policy points - not successful x 3
Be recognized by FAA as CBO - as of yet unsuccessful (and I suspect unlikely given that AMA is suing FAA)

There's probably more, but those come to mind.
Old 12-14-2015, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by RC_Fanatic View Post
I thought the feds passed a law that exempted those of us who belong to AMA from FAA regulations. However, like the EPA, laws are irrelevant to these bureaucracies.
They did pass a law, but the FAA has chosen to ignore that law saying it does not apply. The AMA is preparing to take actions against the FAA in the very area. Here is the AMA's response to this action that was put out today.
AMA Reacts to DOT UAS Registration Rule

MUNCIE, Ind. – Dave Mathewson, executive director of the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA) which is the world’s largest community-based organization, today made the following statement on the Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA) rule for small unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) registration:
“AMA is disappointed with the new rule for UAS registration. As a member of the task force that helped develop recommendations for this rule, AMA argued that registration makes sense at some level and for UAS flyers operating outside the guidance of a community-based organization or flying for commercial purposes. Unfortunately, the new rule is counter to Congress’s intent in the Special Rule for Model Aircraft and makes the registration process an unnecessary burden for our more than 185,000 members who have been operating safely for decades.
“The Special Rule for Model Aircraft in the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 clearly states that the FAA is prohibited from promulgating any new rules for recreational users operating within the safety guidelines of a community-based organization (CBO). Meanwhile, the FAA’s contention that model aircraft should be considered aircraft is currently the subject of pending litigation. Congress by no means intended to grant a free pass to flyers within this system. Instead, it left risk mitigation and the development of appropriate safety guidelines to organizations like AMA.
“AMA’s eighty years of experience demonstrates that this voluntary, community-based approach to managing recreational flyers is highly effective. Our members follow a comprehensive set of safety and privacy guidelines, which are constantly evolving to accommodate new technologies and new modeling disciplines.
“At the same time, AMA understands that new legions of flyers need to be educated on how to fly safely and responsibly. That’s why AMA has been working closely with the FAA and the Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International (AUVSI) on the Know Before You Flycampaign. Education programs like these are one of the best ways to ensure the safety of our airspace.”
# # #
Background on the FAA Interpretative Rule of Section 336
On June 23, 2014, the FAA released its “Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft,” (referred to as the “Interpretive Rule”), which imposed new restrictions on the use of model aircraft in direct contradiction to Section 336 and against the intent of Congress. The Interpretive Rule expands the definition of aircraft to include model aircraft, with which AMA disagrees. AMA has filed a petition to overturn the Interpretive Rule, which is still the subject of pending litigation.
About AMA
The Academy of Model Aeronautics, founded in 1936, continues to be devoted to national airspace safety. It serves as the nation’s collective voice for approximately 185,000 modelers in 2,400 clubs in the United States and Puerto Rico. Headquartered in Muncie, Indiana, AMA is a membership organization representing those who fly model aircraft for recreation and educational purposes. For more information, visitwww.modelaircraft.org.


The above is from AMA http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama...stration-rule/

I wouldn't expect much. The FAA has made the decision and it's not going to change. The AMA has been courting drones for the last 2 years and they spent a quarter of a million of our dollars to help promote them. I don't know what they are thinking, but I think that they assume that now all these millions of drone operators are going to come running to the AMA and sign up. But they weren't counting on the FAA slamming their existing members, that being the airplanes/helis flyers. I think it backfired on them. That's strictly my personal opinion of course. And I seriously doubt we are going to see a huge numbers jump in membership because these people buying drones aren't going to want to join the AMA. But once again, my opinion.

Ken
Old 12-14-2015, 01:44 PM
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And I believe your opinion is 100% spot on ...........
Old 12-14-2015, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by RC_Fanatic View Post
If you register in the first 30 days, they say they will refund the $5. However, you need to re-register for $5 every three years. It's not so much the money, but now the feds have all your information, including social security and credit card numbers in a data base. Government data bases are anything but secure! Another unwanted intrusion into our privacy and another chance for hackers to get our information. And what difference will it make? The law says you can't make pipe bombs but that doesn't stop those who are out to cause trouble. You can be sure that every "drone" that kills or creates a problem will not have the proper FAA markings.

I thought the feds passed a law that exempted those of us who belong to AMA from FAA regulations. However, like the EPA, laws are irrelevant to these bureaucracies.
Wow. You guys just don't like to read the entire document before talking do you? Easier to just complain.

The gov will NOT getting any credit card or social security info if you register within 30 days. It's not pay now and get a refund. You will have to pay the $5 in three years if it doesn't get changed by a future administration. And registration is only name, address and phone number. No info on plane because you are not registering the plane, just that you have one or more. You will need to put that registration number soewhere on your plane(s) were it is easly reviewed.
Geez, you pay AMA nearly $60 (I think since I no longer pay them anything) per year so what's an extra $1.67?
Old 12-14-2015, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by RCKen View Post
http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/20151213_IFR.pdf

Also, you only have to register once and that will then cover all of the planes that you own. pg 182 says 5$ EACH plane/AC

But it is what is now and we have to live with it.

Ken
See above, check page 182. Then look at the top of 183 and it says you will get a registration number that can be put on all of your fleet. It contradicts itself more than once.

Last edited by cat5752; 12-14-2015 at 02:03 PM.
Old 12-14-2015, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RCKen View Post
I wouldn't expect much. The FAA has made the decision and it's not going to change. The AMA has been courting drones for the last 2 years and they spent a quarter of a million of our dollars to help promote them. I don't know what they are thinking, but I think that they assume that now all these millions of drone operators are going to come running to the AMA and sign up. But they weren't counting on the FAA slamming their existing members, that being the airplanes/helis flyers. I think it backfired on them. That's strictly my personal opinion of course. And I seriously doubt we are going to see a huge numbers jump in membership because these people buying drones aren't going to want to join the AMA. But once again, my opinion.

Ken
Concur.
Old 12-14-2015, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rgburrill View Post
Wow. You guys just don't like to read the entire document before talking do you? Easier to just complain.

The gov will NOT getting any credit card or social security info if you register within 30 days. It's not pay now and get a refund. You will have to pay the $5 in three years if it doesn't get changed by a future administration. And registration is only name, address and phone number. No info on plane because you are not registering the plane, just that you have one or more. You will need to put that registration number soewhere on your plane(s) were it is easly reviewed.
Geez, you pay AMA nearly $60 (I think since I no longer pay them anything) per year so what's an extra $1.67?
From the FAA FAQ:

Q: Does it cost anything to register?
A: Federal law requires owners to pay $5 to register their aircraft. However, registration is free for the first 30 days to encourage speedy registration of UAS. During the first 30 days, you must pay $5 with a credit card and a $5 credit will appear shortly afterwards.
Old 12-14-2015, 02:38 PM
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Also from the FAQ:
Q. What about tethered drones?
A. Both tethered and untethered UAS must be registered.

So this applies to control-line as well!
Old 12-14-2015, 02:43 PM
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Yeah, I was waiting until this was somewhat hashed out before renewing my AMA membership for next year. Friday I read on the AMA website that an AMA card would suffice in lieu of FAA registration so I went ahead and renewed my AMA membership. Now I find out that what I read was a crock!
Old 12-14-2015, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rgburrill View Post
Wow. You guys just don't like to read the entire document before talking do you? Easier to just complain.

The gov will NOT getting any credit card or social security info if you register within 30 days. It's not pay now and get a refund. You will have to pay the $5 in three years if it doesn't get changed by a future administration. And registration is only name, address and phone number. No info on plane because you are not registering the plane, just that you have one or more. You will need to put that registration number soewhere on your plane(s) were it is easly reviewed.
Geez, you pay AMA nearly $60 (I think since I no longer pay them anything) per year so what's an extra $1.67?
Originally Posted by RC_Fanatic View Post
From the FAA FAQ:

Q: Does it cost anything to register?
A: Federal law requires owners to pay $5 to register their aircraft. However, registration is free for the first 30 days to encourage speedy registration of UAS. During the first 30 days, you must pay $5 with a credit card and a $5 credit will appear shortly afterwards.
Guess it's easier to attack people rather than read it yourself , EH RG ?

We get it , you think this new regulation is great . well , a majority here DON'T think it's all that great since some of us have watched govt. in action long enough to know that this is only the beginning ! When this fancy new registration scheme DOESN'T produce the "desired results" (less reports of "near misses" between full scale and drones) you can expect the regulation will be amended again and again to become more and more restrictive while the desired result remains elusive . Just like gun laws , they get tighter and tighter year by year and has punishing the law abiding gun owners stopped or even slowed the crimes being committed by those who wouldn't register either their gun or their drone in the first place ?
Old 12-14-2015, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RCKen View Post
Well, I stand corrected. I found this FAQ that does seem to back up what the OP said. It does seem to be a $5 registration fee. Here is the FAQ I found

http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/#use

Wow, not only are we getting screwed but we're not even getting a reach around!!! that's rough!!!

Ken
The fee sucks, the early recommendations were to charge a penny or something like that so as to be in compliance with Federal Law. I don't think the FAA wanted to go with fees but where told by the OMB they had to. Allegedly this will help with the cost of the site and "streamlining" registration. Seriously doubtful. I would assume someone has already been working on the site, there is no way they can throw something like this together that quick. Anyone taking bets the system won't crash initially?
Old 12-14-2015, 03:05 PM
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Has anybody read the FAA's Model Aircraft Operations, it say's were exempt. I would have posted it but don't know how to take a screen shot.
I'm still reading their site and find it to be contradictive to itself. None the less I can't find the magic button to register, was going to do it just to see what is required.

Last edited by acerc; 12-14-2015 at 03:17 PM.
Old 12-14-2015, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by acerc View Post
Has anybody read the FAA's Model Aircraft Operations, it say's were exempt. I would have posted it but don't know how to take a screen shot.
Hi Ace ,

Sadly that page was written before today's ruling .....
Old 12-14-2015, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Hi Ace ,

Sadly that page was written before today's ruling .....
Do you happen to know where the magik button for registering is, I can't find it. I want to see what they require.
Old 12-14-2015, 03:19 PM
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Ok, I see where they say not until 12/21.

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