Seems to me that CL was disappearing back in the late 80s, early 90s, but seems to be making a comeback. I see more kits being made, and more area HSs are carrying both the kits and the new lines ofthe larger ARFs, not just the Cox plastics.

Almost forgot. When I joined the local CL club, I was member #13 or 14. Latest roster shows we've grown to 41, even after loosing the huge CL field over by Hopkins airport and moving operations to the Berea Fairgrounds.

In the early 70s, when the price of a servo was my weekly wage, I wanted to fly models and naturally (and along with a few friends) started control line flying. This was a great start to model flying: it actually gave you a direct feel for what the model was doing through the maneuvers (something that RC can never do).

A group of us started combat flying and progressed to what has since become F2D - we used Super Tigre G15s on bladders with carbon 6x4 props. This is one of the most exciting forms of model flying: anyone who says control line is boring, low tech or lacks a challenge has never flown combat. Three or four of us used to travel the country flying in competitions. We weren't great combat fliers, but we had great fun and met a lot of people.

Similarly CL stunt: it is as technical and as challenging as you want to make it. Flying a big 40 powered stunter in a strong wind and completing an accurate four-leaf clover is more satisfying than anything I've ever achieved in RC.

But now I Fly RC. There are no facilities at our club field for CL. We have fixed wing and rotary on alternate days, but there are no control line circles at our field. I wouldn't even know where to go within a reasonable distance to fly CL stunt.

If I knew that there were a few people locally who perhaps wanted to have a go at stunt or combat, I leave my RC at home. I think a lot of the decline is due to the "Bill Robison effect". RC is just too easy and cheap.

So don't knock it if you haven't tried it, or if you just did not get good enough at CL to achieve any satisfaction from it have a go or give it another try. I miss control line - it never made me dizzy...

[b]Mick:

The "Bill Robison Effect" eh? There's a new one, but I suppose it could be used. Anyone who wonders what you mean can go back and read the second post in this thread.

I enjoy building, whether from a kit or plans, I like true scratch building most of all but it's also the most time consuming so usually it's a kit or assembling an ARF. This part doesn't differ any great amount whether it's free flight, control line, or radio control. The cost can be low or high for any of them. You can spend $3000 on a free flight, or $300 on an R/C plane.

Which type I'll be involved with in a given location is what's popular in the area. If c/l is the thing, it's c/l. If r/c is the thing, guess what. Here r/c is king.

After I finish a plane I want to fly it and show off, among a group of like minded people. This way I have the companionship, and bottom line, I think I like the companionship as much (if not more) than the building and flying.

Bill.

paul i had a hot reply for you, but when i got started i saw at the top that the forum moderators ask that we don't curse,degrade,insult or embarrass someone else. that being the case i really can't reply to your posts about control line except to say that you are way wrong.

subtle...

Paul...you obviously have never had Riley Wootens "VooDoo", or Howard Rush's "Nemisis" on the end of the wires.......blasting at 125mph!!! Because if you ever had enough skills to fly Fast Combat in the "Old Dark Ages" of Control Line.you certainly would not be smacking several Generation of C/L Pilots in this Forum!!!

[b]Lyle:

For Shame! If you're going to talk about Wooten and the "Voodoo", you MUST mention Carl Berryman. His "Twister" was every bit the equal of the Voodoo, but it's less well known now. The Voodoo was kitted, making Riley's name, Berryman never got a kit deal for the Twister.

Bill.

I'm an R/C pilot who cut his teeth in the 60's on c/l. It's all any of us could afford. We spent hours wrenching on .049's and learning simple stunt flying. A quart of fuel was a major expenditure. My hero was Al Rabe. Anyone who remembers articles featuring his designs knows what I'm talking about. (I know you do, Bill) Big, shiney and holy crap, powered by a .35! The problem as I see it with c/l today is almost complete lack of advertisement. There almost isn't any. C/L is still cheaper than r/c but isn't promoted as being as glamorous or challenging as r/c. In my humble opinion there is nothing in r/c today that equals some of the designs of 35 years ago. Ever see a Gieseke Nobler? There's one on e-Bay right now. If that doesn't get the juices flowing, you died some time ago. Thank God for Brodak. They are courageous, to say the least. I know some who will go through hundreds of $ learning to hover an r/c model but the thought of dead-sticking a c/l-er from the top of a loop scares them to death. What do you make of that? C/L will never die, it's just a phase. I'm just now thinking of a "new" Fox 35, and a vintage Nobler just for fun. 'Cause that's what it is...fun. Wow, what a concept. A $40 engine, $50 kit and and a handfull of accessories. Try that with r/c.

p.s....Do you know why I'm actually considering taking-up c/l again? Because I'm having trouble cramming my Moki 2.1 into my new Venus ARF. I hope you get my drift....Mark

Another factor about CL. My oldest RC is less than 7 years old, and has fewer than 200 flights only one "incident" that required almost a week to repair. My oldest CL is a Veco Smoothie I built in 1968, over 500 flights, 6 "Non-horizontal" landings, none of which required more than 2 days work. I have had it long enough to have replaced 2 sets of maple engine bearers, one ply firewall, two pairs of wheels, and recovered/repainted twice.
And on the topic of Fox 35s, I am in the process of replacing the crankcases on my 8 35s in order to be able to use mufflers. Three of those 8 I bought in the 1960s before I went into the AF. Try finding parts for RC engines from the manufacturers for anything close to that old. I even had one of the Japanese reps at the Toledo show laugh in my face when I tried to ask about replacement parts for one of their 6 year old CL 35s. Example of their customer satisfaction policy. His answer was why fix an engine that old? And nobody flies CL anymore.

the title for this thread is all wrong. control line never did loose it's popularity. rather it lost the lazy or inept people that couldn't build and couldn't get the hang of flying it. there are more people flying rc because the planes while often expensive are a lot more disposable than a control line model. a well finished c/l stunter will take around 3 or 4 hundred hours ti build and the loss of that plane is much more crushing than losing an arf rc model.

I started flying Control line in 1966, I bought my first RC airplane in 1969. RC cost 8=10 as much to get in the air back then. Building RC was more work than control line planes.

I honestly think that flying RC is much easier to learn especially today with all the simulators, I own 20 or so RC plane and about the same number of Control line planes. I love to fly both. When I fly RC there is always the fear of losing control because of things you have no control over.

When I fly Control line there is always the knowledge if you push it to the limit sooner or later you will end up inverted 2' off the ground with a dead engine.

But for my money if you have a friend to fly with (flying alone just isn't much fun) there is nothing like holding the lines of a good stunt plane and putting it through the pattern.

I just wish there were more control line clubs around, I love flying control line, and for those that think it is not a challenge take your radio control airplane bring it strait at the ground at 90 miles per hour and pull it out 3' off the ground. That will separate the pilots from the want to be pilots.

You learn RC more than 100' off the ground often at less than 40 mph, you learn Control line at less than 60' and most of the time less than 10 off the ground an speeds above 60 mph.

I pay $75 per year to belong to an RC Club, I mow the grass at my home and fly control line. there are a lot of RC clubs around in my area, but there is only one control line club.

I can go to the RC field most of the time and someone will be there, the control line club in my area is one of the larger clubs. I go by their field to find nobody there flying. but the truth is if there were flyers at the control line club as often as they are at the RC club, I would be at the control line club all the time.

I have read a lot about why more people don't fly control line, and I can tell you the real answer. Given enough time most people can learn to fly in a circle just going around, but few people have been willing to take time to do it. I've had hundreds of people say to me I learned to do that when I was a kid. but when they explain how they flew, I know right away they never really learned to fly. they gave it a try an ended up crashing and gave up.

There were very few people who ever really learned to fly control line planes, and of those that did most of them only learned to go around in circles. But a pilot that really learned to fly control line, and learned to build a plane that would stay tight on the lines doesn't go in circles. He stands in one spot does figure 8's wingovers, flies inverted. and the only circles he flies in may be the first one to build up speed and the one or two circles he flies in to land after his engine tells him it is about to run out of gas.

I may be wrong but I doubt that anyone that really learns to fly control line is ever board, that falls the part to those that were never good enough fly in any direction and do any maneuvers they desired to do. I don't think anything takes the place of the thrill of holding the lines of a four pound airplane doing 75 mph and grooving through the sky.

yup. most people who try c/l just give up after a few crashes. it takes tenacuty to learn how to fly. a fellow is gauranteed success in rc through the help of buddy boxes and simulators.
the pathfinder i'm flying now with a brodak .40 on sixty foot lines goes about 51 mph. i'm a dedicated stunt flyer. never did anything else.

Well there's the problem right there. You haven't attracted anyone to control line becuase YOU sir haven't popped enough balloons!

Problem solved, Next?

Anyone bored with CL has never stood on a parking lot divider and done touch and goes between the other dividers. Our record at Wheelus AFB was 8 consecutive touches. Thats with 3 dividers, pilot standing on the middle one. My personal best was 6 touches. Touch asphalt at each opening. Miss the dividers. Or try the touch and goes only on the dividers. And think about the layout, and imagine landing a stunt job deadstick without using one of the dividers as a brake!
Propjobbill, if we're in the same RC club, a couple of us have flown CL on our field, usually on the heli hover pad at the North end of the hill. I also regret I haven't flown at the Berea Fairgrounds, although I did have the chance to fly at the old field at Cleveland Hopkins before it became a Hotel.

I fly Radio at Lorain County RC Club, this is my first year ever to belong to a club, always flew on my own before that. I joined the northcoast controlline club last year, didn't rejoin this year. Both clubs have a lot of great people in them.
I've never flown at the northcoast field, been there maybe twenty times, seems like the only time they fly is on Sunday morning and Tuesday evening, both are bad times for me. (I have a place beside my home on my property where I fly using a stooge and don't have to leave home. I was told that some the northcoast members fly on week days. but it's a 20+ mile drive for me so I don't go by there just to see if anyone is there. But I have seen and met some of the members, and let me tell you some of them can really fly.

That's what I thought. I'm the treasurer at LCRC. Welcome to the madhouse. For a while the NCCL also flew at the Community College field, which was convenient for me, less than 12 minutes from my house or work, but the college couldn't, or wouldn't, cut the grass low enough for CL. A couple of us were trying to see if we could get a circle set up at the base of the hill, but then Cherie set up her horses there.

Al Rabe posts fairly regularly on the Stuka Stunt forum. Scroll down to the thread on CL forums to find the URL.

yes control is not as popular as it used to be. as a avid rc flyer i have dabbled with c.l. for years. i have a top flite nobler and a ringmaster and a few kits i have not built yet.i learned to fly inverted on a goldberg shoestring stunter. but from what i understand in different parts of the country it is still very popular. i live in east central florida which has a fast growing population.a lot of transplanted northeners. i've seen a slight rise in c.l. activtity in this area. ....let's keep up the hope!

In todays society it would seem that control line flight would gain in populairty due to the fact that no one could acuse another of having defective receiver or transmitter equipment. ( Read that as not the most expensive ).
However if one has a phiscal contact with the model that might imply liability? Perhaps that is the reason? If one is in phisical control as opposed to electronic control then they must certianly be responsible for what ever happenes as a result of their airplane being flown. Just a thought butI still will fly both and let them prove their case,,,,, if they can.

Regardless of which type of flying you are doing, you are the pilot, therefore you are responsible. Even with one of those cheap $1.50 balsa or $5.00 Big Lots plastic FF gliders.

Another reason that one might consider dragging out the old Ringmaster, Smoothie, Nobler or whatever is the fact that I doubt that the Department of Homeland Security is ever going to be really concerned about a bomb laden CL Model being flown into a building, unless, of course, the pilot is a suspected suicide bomber.

FL is a great area for CL. The X-47 flyers, King Orange contest, the Tampa club: http://tblf.virtualave.net/
Lucky stiff gets to fly when we are shivering in our basements building masterpieces... Hah!
Kelvin