First, the vast majority of CL fliers do not fly competitively. Secondly, the majority of available CL kits are of use to those people, as are the ARF's. From numbers Dick Byron compiled, about 600 people have flown in a CL stunt contest over the past several years. That's maybe half of PAMPA membership (and some of the competitors are/were not PAMPA members) I would guess that PAMPA includes maybe 10% of the people who actively fly CL. I'm basing this on clubs I belong to and people I know; your local anecdotal sample.

So far as CL stunt goes, there are no secrets. Everything there is to know has been printed more than once, and put on the web several times. I don't know how it is in other areas of CL. The top fliers are very forthcoming, as are the rest of us when we think we know something.

If you look in hobby shops in the Austin area, a 1.5 million person marketing area, you will find a couple of reels of useless Sullivan Tuffstrand kevlar lines and a couple of Sullivan handles. That's it for CL.[] So the only way a person in the Austin area is going to get into CL is to find one of the half dozen active CL fliers in the area , or go it alone on the internet. At the moment, it is basically a bunch of retired folks. Others have come and gone as work, etc has caught them up.

First, Skip, I appreciate your response. Second, judging by Jim's post, I'm spoiled rotten. My LHS has a good selection of C/L stuff, from lines and handles, to belcranks, horns, tanks, kits (more C/L kits than R/C, 'cause more C/L guys are still building while R/C guys are buying ARFs, I guess) etc. I don't know of any C/L clubs in the area, except for a combat group, but I've not really gone looking for one, either. Generally I prefer R/C now that I've learned to fly fairly well. Additionally, my R/C club is a good group of guys who'll do whatever they can to help a newbie. And most of us are simply "daily drivers" who spend too much money on our toys.

Wayne, in my auto-racing example, I wasn't thinking about "daily drivers" verses Nextel Cup racers, although that may be a more apt analogy. I was thinking along the lines of the guys running 70's Monte Carlos at the local track. It's a hobby/sport. And I still wonder why, and this question goes for R/Cers as well as C/Lers, why are we so evangelistic about our hobby? To be fully frank, I'm a "born-again" Christian. An Evangelical, if you will. And if I was as vocal about my faith and critical of churches as many model airplane hobbyists are vocal about their hobby and critical of clubs and the AMA, nobody would ever want to hang around me

Truly, I think many of the criticisms come back to human nature, especially as it relates to groups. We can be cliquish, homogenous, and resistant to change, and some of us are comfortable with that (the INs?), and it drives some of us nuts (the OUTs?). Personally, I enjoy my club, and have made some good friends, but even if it didn't exist, I'd still read the magazines and build and fly planes because it's fun.

Phil

edit: P.S: In addition to being an Evangelical, I'm also a dyed-in-the-wool capitalist. If you think there is a market for a C/L simulator, by all means, put up some funds, do the R & D and build one! I won't invest in your company, because I don't think it'll sell more than a few copies because, as many have been saying, C/L is a fad of the past. The only thing keeping it alive is nostalgia and the "feel" of the plane on the lines. The nostalgic don't need a sim, and I don't think the "feel" will really happen by computer simulation. My point is, it's not the manufacturers job to "support" the desires of a small (relatively) group of hobbyists in order to create demand. It's their job to recognize an existing demand for a product, and fill it, if possible, for a price that people are willing to pay.

I think someone in advertising would tell you it is OK to create a demand for a product, rather than produce a product to meet a demand. So far as recognizing demand, Top Flite was the first to produce modern CL ARF's. I imagine they expected to sell them. In fact, there were long waiting periods because shipments sold out immediately, and people were looking around the country trying to find one. It appears to me, just speculating, that Brodak, a major CL supplier, did not see the demand until TopFlite demonstrated it. Same true of Sig.

It is interesting that the Nobler and Flite Streak are both 50ish. The Nobler goes back to around 1950, and the Flite Streak to around 1956. I suppose that tells us something about the nature of Control Line.

So far as evangelizing goes, If one is unaware of CL. one is unlikely to have a burning desire to give CL a try. We CL fliers get evangelized by RC fliers from time to time. Many resent it, but I take it that they enjoy what they are doing and want others to enjoy as well. It does amuse me when an enthusiastic RCer tells me I'll have to join the AMA to fly RC when my airplane is sitting there with my AMA number large on the wing.

True. It's OK to do it, but is it their responsibility to do it? To listen to some people talk (or read their posts) it's Brodacks fault that they don't have a $10 million Madison Avenue budget to make model aviation hotter than the PS-3 for next Christmas.

Phil

I used to love going to a hobby shop. As a kid one of my favorites was in Texarkana, Tx. It was a gas station, hobby shop, motel all in one. I think the guy rented golf carts also. The man that ran the place was very willing to discuss the hobby with kids. He had these wonderful airplanes hanging in there. I loved it. Later as an older teen I was into electric trains for a while. I discovered other hobby shops as well. Caboose Hobbies in Denver, Co was great- double great.

I can take my son to a hobby shop and he's mildly interested. I take him to Gamestop and he perks up the way I always did in a hobby store.

Times have changed. Thats probably why we don't see cox and testers planes in Walmart and Kmart and such. Airplanes rquire a lot of support. Items such as glowheads/glowplugs, fuel, batteries and lots of room. Not to mention product liability issues. For many on the run parents game systems are just easier to accomidate. You can even play them in the car.

To iterate, what we need is a modular electric CL trainer. Like the things you see in the hobby shop, "An excellent CL trainer, all you need in one box, including the DVD." With replaceable parts hanging on the wall, and an available upgrade kit to make it into a capable stunter. Someone is going to do that and maybe at least break even on it.

Some time ago I read a tongue-in-cheek statement in an article about RC flying; that in the future, due to urbanization and environmental concerns, the only outdoor flying allowed would be electric control line (so let's get on with RC while we can.) I dream of a situation where we fly electric CL in a park where RC parkfliers are not allowed because they are too dangerous.

Says much, with the second sentence succinctly saying all that really needs to be said Wayne.

The thread header posed as a question in the present tense is a misnomer. Although I suppose you could say it it is losing popularity if you euphemise the natural attritition of its aging core support demographic through the inevitiblity of infirmity and death as "losing popularity".

I don't believe that would 'fly' Jim, commercially or popularly. You have of course accurately identified that ease of participation is notable part of the reason in that today I can buy a 4 channel TX suitable for a PF complete with nicad for about the same as the cost of decent handle and set of stainless lines, and it's easier to source! But the primary reason such a concept hasn't a hope of succeeding is that it simply lacks sufficient "kuuuLe!" factor to attract a socially and materially indulged individualistic and unrestrained generation of kids amongst a plethora of alternative, affordable, easier to aquire kuuULr offerings.

Being completely honest with ourselves, if R/C had been as affordable and accessible in our day as it is today, would we have spent 30 seconds even thinking about playing with C/L or Free Flight? The honest anwser for all but the extraordinary few is an emphatic "No!". I know I certainly gave the concept of free flight short shrift the moment I could afford control line. For me free flight never proceeeded beyond paper and simple balsa gliders followed by a magnificent rubber band powered Guillow's Nieuport 17 (or was it a Biggles inspired Camel?) because it was only an enforced alternative until I could afford C/L and manage it without adult assistance or mentoring in an age when if we wanted something we had to acquire the means to afford and action it inedpendently. And the reason we did C/L instead of R/C was because either there simply was no alternative at all at the time, in that R/C was in its infancy which was beyond our means either technically or materially. Once it wasn't, look what happened. Mass migration, except amongst true afficionado with resistance and negativity generally attributable to obstinacy of those simply resentful and resistant of change. We have our appreciation of C/L through the experience, enhanced by nostalgia.

Hey, I'm not knocking C/L. I love it as I've iterated elsewhere. I recognise not only its limitations but its strengths. But that said, it is as much a part of yesteryear and nostalgia as majestic ocean liners are to intercontinental travel, the piston engined airliner is to commercial aviation, or the magnificence of steam is to contemporary commuter rail services. Social re-engineering including the hours and pressures of the contemporary work environment and 'nuclear family' is much to blame with the patient pursuit of a hobby superseded by demand for entertainment providing immediate gratification and constant tittilation.

Even conventional R/C is playing the price of competing with the ease, access and fascination of the PC. As I perceive the immediate interim future, R/C will remain the dominant form of aeromodelling though affected by technical and voguish change. Frequency congestion will be reduced through the increasing contribution of the microchip to synthesization and ever narrower band op and anti-interference technologies enhancing safety, all of course subservient to inevitible PE. Much though I abhor it personally, similarly with its technical advance electric flight will become increasingly dominant over IC as it has clearly re-excited and captured the imagination of that portion of today's generation still remotely interested in model flight - and retailers. Part of this revitalisation revolution has been down to the proliferation of packaged electric park flyers which has made having a go as accessible as C/L was to us in our childhood as it certainly to me and my mates - and the gang which would turn up to watch when they heard the engine fire up. Though that has a finite life before public pressure will relegate the activity to club sites. I predict that along with the current 3D fad, they will be become the new core of the R/C flight generation, and the same personality types as zealous in advocation of their interests as those in ours are of ours.

In 20-30 years once those of us to whom it was once of some significance have all passed, other than the quaint pastime of a couple of the curious or 'collectors' if at all, C/L will exist with no more significance than the pressed and painted metal wind up clockwork train and race car running its tin track of the 30's does today. Superceded by the massively popular Scalextric slot car in the '60s, they too have since been largely relegated to relative obsolecsence by Tamiya electric and IC R/C in this age.

If I could offer u-control aka control-line an epitaph, like the Spitfire or Mustang, glorious they may still be, but of another time and zenith never to be again.

Sigrun, there is a great deal of truth in what you say. One thing that is true; however, is that a fair number of active CL fliers "used to" fly RC. So RC is not seen as something better by at least a few people. There are also a fair number of people who fly both RC and CL. Then there are a few like me who have never had any interest in RC. I think you are wrong about the saleability of a trainer such as I described. I suspect if TopFlite had had you for a consultant they would not have considered offering CL ARF's. Yet they did so, and being greedy capitalists, They expected to make money doing so. That they have recently released a third CL ARF, suggests that they were not mistaken. [X(]

We do not need a lot of new people all at once. Our present facilities would be overwhelmed. As it is right now, I routinely drive 49 miles one way to fly with three or four flying buddies. On the other hand, if I lived in Dallas, or St. Louis, I would be active in the clubs there (I am a member both places) and would have plenty of company. As it is, I routinely go to a contest in Houston, three contests in Dallas, one contest in St. Louis, and the Vintage Stunt Contest in Tucson. I'd love to see enough active CL fliers in the Austin area to form a club, and I'd love to have some active fliers living near me. We are talking another half dozen people out of a 1.5 million marketing area.

Actually, I am 70 years old, and thinking about taking up sport FF, actually park flier types, that will come back to me, when my reflexes and concentration abilities fade a bit more. So if CL stumbles along for say another 10 years, that will take care of me.

Hi Jim

You make me feel privileged. I have a dedicated 2 circle control-line field about 20 minutes and a 20km drive from me. Actually it's my primary club with a decided section of C/L only members, but which also operates R/C from another site. I confess though to seldom flying C/L any more, primarily because of the inconvenience through the irregularity of available C/L flying buddies for other than for a few hours one morning a week and the associated cost and timie to build issue. I want to fly, not build.

Which brings up the topic of ARF C/L. I think as you've suggested, that the degree of succes enjoyed by the couple of models introduced caught the companies which took that initiative by surprise. Their success however has been confined to the US so far because of price, distribution and demand. We can't get the Brodaks locally here. Only the Nobler and Flite Streak have been made available and are at last approaching anywhere near what might be considered locally competitive and acceptable pricing. Clearly in the choice of Flite Streak and Nobler however, the company were not targetting a contemporary generation. I'm glad the Tutor has since been included in the line-up, and now SIG have taken a bold move with the Primary Force.

What would possibly provide a significant increase in activity, in returning participants if not new ones but with possibly a minor flow on effect, would be lower pricing and significantly greater range of C/L ARFs as in R/C, though neither are likely to happen if only because of the laws of supply and demand affording economy and scale of production. I fly both R/C IC and C/L, and now limited electric (electric launch assisted glider) as well pursuing other full size aviation activities. In my book, in addition to the Primary Force, ARF C/L versions of SIG's Twister remodelled to look like an Extra, CAP or Sukhoi all of which are immediately recognisable to the contemporary generation along with their excellent full body Chipmunk as ARFs would be just the go to excite lay interest and imagination. I'd'd buy them if they were available. The Nobler just doesn't excite me, and every time I look at the (local) price of the Flite Streak and the read all the C/L stunt purist whines about the ARFS required re-engineering before they'll fly right, I come to the conclusion I may as well build it myself in the first place....and the cycle continues because I don't want to. If they want to charge that kind of money for a C/L profile aimed at a C/L flier who can already fly C/L and wants something which will fly straight and problem free OOTB, they can't expect me to choose them against another R/C ARF if I have to replace or re-engineer any of the already installed hardware.

In a nutshell, the only thing which would inspire me to fly more C/L these days is if I don't have to build BUT the model will fly like I have. So I think if I echo that, its a fait accompli that the current generation assuredly does. When I have my choice between flying R/C or building C/L ...guess which wins every time?

This may have been already mentioned but sometimes things lose popularity just because they lost popularity. Model airplane flying is a very social hobby. At my local RC club, you will see a bunch of "regulars" who seem to always be there, even though they don't bring anything to fly. CL and freeflight seem to have reginal popularity where it is still popular because it is still popular.
When people start dropping out of a scene, a tipping point can be reached and nobody shows up because nobody shows up. People get disgusted when they travel across a couple of states to enter a contest and only a couple of other competitors show up and so they drop out of the scene themselves, sort of a reverse snowball effect.
I used to race Hobie Catamaran sailboats and at a regatta there would be up to 200 boats showing up during the peak of the boat's popularity and then it collapsed in just a few years for the same reason. I found myself driving hundreds of miles to a regatta only to have one other competitor sailing in my class. It didn't take long for me to lose interest also.

Well put!

I just built a Flitestreak. Brodak kit, covered with silk and dope. I don't build from kits much, mostly my own designs or from plans. I have George Aldrich's proof set of plans for the Brodak kit, but I decided to buy a kit and put the saved time into building something else, not from a kit. I think I probably could have bought an ARF for the same or less than the kit, but I don't care to have an ARF. I suspect the proportion of builders vs non-builders is much higher in CL (stunt, at least) than in RC. However there are a number of folks who jumped on the ARF's, and I can think of several friends who are happy with a bought, borrowed, or given airplane someone else built.

I'm kind of talking around the point that I regard building models as just as essential to my happiness as flying them. However, I am most pleased to see the ARF's proliferate for those who will enjoy them. I also have no intention of going electric as I have too many glow and diesel engines needing airplanes. I do applaud the efforts being made in electric CL. I've seen a couple of electric stunt airplanes fly and they gave nothing away. Bob Hunt made it onto our FAI CL stunt team flying a glow airplane converted to electric. So I am for things which I think will "grow control line" even if they are of no personal appeal.

Different strokes for different folks.

I enjoy bulding airplanes and tinkering with engines about as much or maybe more than flying them. I'm not personally interested in ARFs, or RTFs. I'm not much into tinkering with electronics either. Controlline is a good fit for me. Presently, my hanger is almost empty. I do have some projects underway but nothing ready to fly at the moment. I have two .049s that I plan on using in planes and a handfull of engines that I keep around just for enjoyment. I started 1/2a in the seventies and i'm still 1/2a. Lately I've been cosidering going diesel and moving up to some OTS type planes.

That being said, I can see that readily available electric planes would be just the ticket for many people. Especially if the price were agreeable.

Well, After reading the past 15 or so posts I can honestly say that you are a bunch of reasonable, decent guys. No one flamed or flipped out and that I really appreciate. I think all of us can agree in some areas and agree to disagree in others without hate and discontent. The hard thing for me to accept I guess is the change in the past several generations. I took an RC Micro Heli to the local gym when a number of kids were there, I had hoped to introduce some of them to the hobby and was shocked when only several were interested and that interest lasted about five minutes. This isn't an indictment on the human race and I apologize for a little philosophy here, but I fear for our future if mindless, violent, computer games, demonic horror movies, and gangster rap are at the top of the to do list of a large amount of the younger generation. I remember when I cranked up that old Cox P-40 in the late sixties or early seventies the whole neighborhood of kids would come to watch and sit there until I was done flying it. I remember and eight lane slot car track that you had to make appointments to run on and paid to do it. Gone! SIGRUN you hit the nail on the head. And I guess to an extent none of you are really wrong. To each his own. Great thread, great discussion! Skip

i have been a rc and c.l. flyer for over 20 years. i luv c.l..... but i cannot find too many people interested in c.l. so i just leave them at home anymore.....what i've observed is youth today are not really interested in model airplanes,rc ,cl, etc ,etc........but in the area i live in rc cars & trucks have taken off. nitro powered is very popular. when i go to the local hobby shop you will see most youths hanging out in the rc car section. you just see the older people like me in the airplane section ......a few years ago i was flying a brodak 'c.l. oriental' in a large grassy field used by rc & some c.l. flyers. when i got done i noticed a small crowd of people had stopped to observe some rc flying going on also.. the crowd ranged in age from kids to adults. they walked over and were looking at my c.l. airplane. one of the adults exclaimed "wow"..that's neat.....'never seen one these before'.....'are these something new!?.....................case closed

It’s been months since I have said anything on this post. I went out yesterday for my first flight in 2006 I flew a 45� high wing plane with a .19 fox engine on 50’ lines it was so relaxing not to even have to think of what could go wrong. When I fly RC there is always the thought what if something goes wrong and it gets away from me.
But what I like most about C/L is that feel of total control. And when I’m flying a larger heavier plane it’s the feel of a wild animal trying to get away. I flew my first C/L in 1966. To this day I still remember the thrill of that 1st 1/3 lap before I landed it very suddenly, (crash). Now days the only way the word crash comes to mind is engine failure or hardware failure, but I still love to feel a good size plane at the end of the lines pulling and grooving through the sky.
I have build some coroplast C/L planes about 36� with a 35 size engine. What I love most about them is they can be built in 1 hour or so, and they cost very little to build. I think if manufacturers would have built something like these planes 30 = 40 years ago lots of people would be flying C/L.
My biggest problem years ago was it took way to long to build the big planes and the Cox plastic planes seldom lasted more than 1 flight unless you knew how to fly. I had no one to teach me flying and there was no C/L clubs in my area that I knew of. I honestly believe if someone would offer a good large coroplast plane say 40� wing span more people would join the sport, because they could learn to fly one of these.
I have even thought about selling one myself in kit form. I think once a person really learns to fly C/L without crashing they will be hooked for life. The fact that so many people are returning to C/L says something. I love flying RC and other types of planes but C/L will always be the love of my life.

well, probably need to chime in. I started in C/L in 1975. I started with the COX PT-19 and gradually moved up to .35 planes. I really wanted to fly RC but just couldn't afford it. Another reason was the perceived learning curve. It looked very, very difficult to me. I left the hobby in about 1985 to do things like raise kids, work, etc. About 3 years ago, I bought myself new C/L gear and a Brodak 38 Special. I just loved it...loved the way that plane pulled on the lines. Loved watching it loop. But I also begin to see that RC had become very affordable. I figured if I was ever going to try it, nows the time. I bought myself some quality gear, joined a club, and commenced training flights. I was hooked!! No, addicted. For myself.....notice I said myself, I would never go back to C/L, even though I loved it at one time.

As far as young people go, I noticed in the several posts that I read no mention of 3-D flying. In our club, its the young studs that really get into the extreme flying. It what seems to really attract the young crowd. I think that with the advent of ARFs, electric flying, and 3-d that RC will continue to grow at a much faster pace than C/L.

As an aside, our club recently had a request from a C/Liner whether or not we'd be willing to accomodate he and his friends. We asked that they put on a presentation to the club and let us know what they need..how many people would be involved, etc. I love the idea of maybe putting a circle in.....might just have to build another C/L and bring BOTH to the field.

I think we always have to be careful when questioning why somebody would be interested in such and such....for me I've always wondered why anybody would want to do FF...or gliders for that matter. But in the end, it doesn't matter.....different strokes!

Never say "Never!"

I agree. It's too bad that it's perceived that there aren't enough people in each special interest group to keep the manufacturers out straight designing and manufacturing new stuff for the aficionados.
I can see why people want to do different things, even though I have little or no desire to do them myself ... I like the pull of the plane on the lines, the affordability of C/L. I understand the allure of motorless soaring ... trying to catch a thermal and stay up for hours without power. I like watching the mayhem of C/L combat, and hearing the scream of racing engines. But I can't do it all, so sport/scale R/C flying and occasional C/L flying are what keep me busy for now.

It's funny, to me, that you mentioned this today. Just this afternoon my job took me to Malden, MA, home of America's largest model train store, Charles Ro Supply Co. I've been into model trains off and on over the years, as well, so I stopped in for a look around. Man, that stuff just keeps getting nicer, too. Then later I was in a magazine "super store" and I found a Model Car Racing magazine ... slot cars, not R/C. I figured that stuff was long dead ... in fact the editorial says "that hobby that peaked in the early seventies, died during the eighties and nineties, to be resurrected less than a decade ago." So I'm constantly amazed at the toys we have available to use up our free time and spare change.

LOL I KNEW somebody would catch my contradiction.....Good Eye!! I DO miss the less expensive nature of C/L. I don't remember it as being an addiction like RC is.....I crashed a plane the other day and actually found myself a little pleased. As I did my "walk of shame", I was already trying to decide what would be my next plane. That is so sick......yep, its amazing what us "boys" will do to take up our time....and our money....Hmmmmmm, wonder if my OS 52 four stroke would be a good match for a Great Planes Pete N Poke.....Bet it would!

Paul,

You are entitled to your opinion, of course. So are the others among us who prefer to feel actual forces from the aircraft we are flying, rather than an overlay of a veneer of imagined sensing of what's happening some hundreds of feet away, or perhaps uncomfortably close in certain 3D or Parkies...

It can all be good and satisfying to those who find satisfaction in what they prefer. An earlier reply simply said CL appears not to be for you. So be it. Why insist that because it is not satisfying to you, it is dull and to be outgrown. RC happens to be older than CL, btw. Of course, you are free to say that, too, if you don't mind offending a growing number of - yes, older - fliers returning to something tactile, with very good friends to fly with, in CL. Many of our retreads are only in their forties. I HOPE these are not dying off very rapidly!

One reason RC never really grabbed me was that so many of those involved seemed only to visit a while between tennis and golf on the way to ski-boarding, or whatever their next temporary sport/hobby was to be. An often seen attitude was of superiority as soon as they could take off and land with little/no damage - until they got bored of RC, too. Many thereafter became active opponents of any form of waste of taxpayer money or public parkland for such stupid use as toy airplanes. I hope my experience is not universal. As club secretary, among other offices, I had quite a job keeping up with the membership turnover. And, as a happy Ukie, I'd joined that club mainly in hopes of access to their flying site. I did get that, if no one was there to fly RC.

There is good in all aspects of model aviation hobbies, imho. The attraction of any one aspect may not appeal to another guy. Hobbies are activities we engage because we enjoy them. So long as the activity is wholesome and healthful, I have no heartburn that you don't see the charm and joy in CL. I hope you will allow me my enjoyment?

I'm not sure whose post was more insulting, Paul's or Lou's. Just not sure why people need to criticize the other's guy's interests....
Lou, sounds like you're in the wrong club. You sure don't describe the folks in my club.I have to admit though.....I DID like your one line...."overlay of a veneer of imagined sensing ." You really know "many" people who left RC and then fought against the using of public land for our toys?......Hmmmm, interesting. While Paul's post was blatently offensive, yours was cloaked in an air of tolerance and goodwill towards others, while quietly pushing the blade in.....very cleverly done though. My hats off to you.

As a matter of perspective, last Friday my son and I watched some R/C jets fly. The planes were very impressive, tubine powered, and highly expensive. Some of the pilots were quite good as well. I really enjoyed watching. On Sunday we watched some guys flying some really large highly aerobatic planes -- impressive and fun. I really enjoyed watching,and really appreciated the skill involved. It was fun. On Saturday my dad and I spent about two hours watching several guys flying stunt patterns at a controlline contest in Texarkana. Very impressive. I loved it. I would have stayed longer but dad had been sick and it was a damp and windy day. Truth is I've spent a lot more time dreaming about c/l than r/c this week. What I don't understand is the attitude of some people that seem to think that there is some need to prove one discipline superior to the other. Two great aspects of model aviation. Enjoy them both.

My son (who's 34) took up RC quite a few years ago and, like everything else he's tried, he picked it up very quickly and is a very good flier. But not long ago he watched me flying my stunter and a few days ago he came around and raided my workshop. He took home with him an old trainer I built years ago to give kids a fly at demonstration days. Today we went out to his club field with the trainer and his RC pattern plane and on the way he told me he wanted to learn to fly CL as well as I do. The kid should be a diplomat

The first flight I took it off for him then handed over the handle and he flew nice and level then started doing the usual shallow climbs and dives (only arm movement) to get used to things and ended up with a fairly nice landing. The second flight I let him do the takeoff after I explained what to do. It was perfect. Next think I know he's doing consecutive wingovers (with one little fright when the wheels clipped the grass ) and ended up with an absolutely perfect 3 point landing! The look on his face said it all. He reached out and shook my hand and couldn't get the smile off his face

Two flights and he's past the trainer stage. He's better than RCPaul already so now I have to help him build a proper stunt trainer. He's got the right attitude though because he knows that both RC and CL each have their good points and he can appreciate both.

Personally, I fly Rockets, CL, FF, and RC. My late mother had a theory that people who are easily bored with something or are always bored are usually also pretty boring people themselves. She also had a saying that usually referred to peoples' musical tastes that to me can also be applied to this Hobby/Sport, or almost anything else in life that offers so many choices. People who single out one aspect of any such activity to the exclusion of any other part are like the people who go to a super buffet and only eat one selection of potato chips. And, to me, the people who put down other peoples' sampling the variety available are like the people who only eat one single chip and then try to stop everybody else from enjoying anything but that same chip.

Maybe at our Model Mania, an annual public show we put on at our RC field, me or Propjobbill can put on a CL flight. This did get positive comments in past years. In fact, one year we actually had three CL planes going at one time. One of our former presidents really did a great job with an older Nobler/OS 40. Used to lie down on the ground for a portion of the flight. I just have to determine if I've recovered enough from a recent illness to fly out a tank while walking around in circles. I haven't flown CL in over a year.