WCB

My brother and I built a Nobler CL ARF and powered it with an OS 40 LA C/L engine. He is an experienced CL flier and has been flying since the late 60's/ early 70's so I let him test fly it. The 1st flight went well. The plane was very responsive, loops and figure 8's were a breeze. One the 2nd flight he said "something is wrong" and the plane went in the ground nose first inverted. He had no control. Post crash autopsy of the plane revealed that the bolt holding the bell crank had come off during flight. The bolt was factory installed with the bell crank. He said he had never had this happen before. Has anyone else had (or know of) a problem like this with Top Flite Nobler? I guess I should have double checked the bolt. Anyway he is rebuilding the plane so it might fly again. Thanks.

By the way, I don't see how you C/L guys do it. I tried to stand beside my brother while he flew so I could take the plane and after about 5-6 turns I was sick and had to sit down. I'll stick to RC.[:'(]

WCB

WCB

OOPs sorry for the double post.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Killed your duplicate, Will, no problem.

When you're spinning around look at the plane only until you get more used to it. It helps most, some get no relief from it, just have to tough it out. But the dizziness will go away.

In re the bellcrank screw. Have you spoken with J Brodak about it? Whether or not he makes any compensation I'm sure he'd like to know.

Bill.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

I Suspect WCB is talking about the Top Flight ARF Nobler and probably not Brodaks. WCB do not dispair about the dizzys. First off you were not flying and to follow someone else within the circle is far more disorienting than if you are the one flying. The pilot will tend to stand still and just rotate while you will be forced to run around a bit. This is nothing like flying the ship yourself. Be assured the dizzys will go away after a few flights when you are the one flying. The rewards of truly being connected with the aircraft in flight are great, stick with it, rebuild and reap the rewards that only fellow Ukies dudes will understand. [8D]

John

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

John:

My error. The Nobler ARF is Top Flite. In the earlier post substitute Tower/Top Flite for J Brodak.

Sorry.

Bill.

Ryan Nau

My Feedback: (54)

Put some lock tite on the screw that holds the Bellcrank on. I put some on my ARF nobler and its tight. Do you have the stock clevis's on yours? 2 of mine failed, but luckly on the ground. So I put better ones on and a z-bend where I could, and soldered them. About getting dizzy, just concentrate on the airplane and not the surroudings. You'll get used to it. Or do a few manuevers like lazy 8's if you get dizzy.
Ryan

WCB

Thanks for the input. Yes it was a Top Flite Nobler ARF. I probably will say something to the manufacturer hoping it might save someone else a plane. I don't expect replacement I should have checked it. The plane is nearly rebuilt now and hopefully will fly again next weekend. Ryan thanks for the tip about the clevises. We will replace the stock ones.
I "might" try flying it and I will remember to focus on the plane. Maybe I will put only a thimble full of fuel in it so it won't fly long.
Thanks again.
WCB

gcb

WCB,
Unless the instructions said to check that bolt you should be able to expect it to be correct. I would indeed contact the manufacturer. They SHOULD make some sort of restitution. They may have some type of generic disclaimer though, like, "Check everything thoroughly".
Several people have reported various problems with the control system. A few have replaced part of the control system to prevent future problems.

George

WCB

George,
I reread the manual thoroughly. No where does it mention checking that bolt. It does say use Loc-Tite on the wheel collar set screws and to check the prop nut and lead out connectors. That's it. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

WCB

WCB

OK it's sent. I typed out a very professional email to Top Flite support explaining the whole situation. I'll let you all know what if anything they say. Thanks again for the help.

WCB

gcb

If nothing else, perhaps future runs may have Loc-Tite on the bolt.

George

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Well, I always thought I would never see the bell crank again after finishing the plane.

Of course, I always did unless I sold the plane before it fell apart from old age, or I crashed it and either repaired or junked the plane.

What I'm leading into, is that my b/c mounting bolts were always soldered.

Bill.

WCB

Top Flite replied to my message stating my situation was an isolated incident. So I guess that means....well.. nothing. They did offer to sell me the stuff to fix it with. That was mighty kind of them to offer. I have the worst luck. Thousands of Noblers sold and I get the one with the loose nut.

WCB

O2AFAC67

Interesting response from Top Flite, William. As George knows, I'm back into the hobby now after a 4 decades plus absence, and am building a good old Ringmaster. Becoming anxious to fly again, I had been considering one of the Nobler ARF's like yours. However, based on the response you received, if I do try an ARF, it'll be one of the recently imported Brodak Cardinals or one of Brodak's other ARF's. Based on what I've been reading here and over at the Stuka Stunt Forum, Mr. Brodak sounds like he would probably have been more than willing to stand behind his products, unlike the Top Flite folks. I'm sorry for your misfortune. Hang in there!!

Ron

WCB

Thanks Ron.
Good luck with the Ringmaster. Have one that was gave to me (see my other post). I am thinking about just keeping it and not building it and maybe buying one of the Ringmaster remakes.

WCB

slammin_sam

I can assure you that yours was not an isolated incident. I've read quite a few posts about hardware failures with the Top Flite Nobler. I had a clevis strip while pulling out inverted. Fortunately it just knocked off the rudder. I'd get back to them. I don't think they are being honest.

gcb

If you build an original Ringmaster, remember that a weak spot was the joining of the wing halves. Many have split upon impact. Use modern adhesives there (preferably epoxy) and inspect the plywood joiner for the LE and TE and replace if necessary.

Good luck,
George

P.S. I'd keep all that Top Flite info in mind for your next ARF. I'm not saying to not get it, just look it over WELL and replace any suspect parts in the control system.

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

If the model's within the warranty period, it would be replaced if you sent it in. While your incident IS isolated, we don't expect our models to spontaneously come apart (unless it happens to be hideously old with low maintenance). The normal warranty stuff applies. We'd need a photocopy of the purchase receipt along with a note of explanation and the model.

Did you actually talk to one of the Product Support reps or someone from the sales division?

Slammin Sam: Where are those "quite a few posts"? We monitor a number of discussion sites, and while there have been difficulties, there have not been very many at all. If the models were raining from the sky, we'd most certainly know about it. Thanks,

kdheath

Bill, I have personally witnessed two Nobler crashes caused by the failure of the threads in the elevator clevis. One of these models was on its third flight. I've examined the kit parts (I own an ARF FS, too) and found them of marginal quality. One of our club members showed us his control system replacement kit made by Tom Morris specifically for the ARF Nobler. With all due respect, I believe you're being a little disingenuous.
Kelvin Heath

WCB

Thanks Bill Baxter for commenting.
The 1st response I recieved was from David Wolf in Hobby Services sympathizing with me for my plane and mentioning the parts to fix it.
The 2nd response was from Adam W. in Product Support stating the bell crank bolt coming off was an anomaly and offering to pass the info on.
My brother is rebuilding it and it is almost finished so I can't send the plane back. I don't have the reciept. I bought it and had it a while before we built it so the warranty is probably outdated anyway. It's not a problem. I don't have any issues with Top Flite I just got a bad plane. The most I hoped for was maybe alerting someone else to the fact that the bell crank bolt can come off. If Top Flite doesn't think it happens often enough that it warrants mentioning then that is their perogative. I would feel comfortable buying another TF Nobler I would just check it over more thoroughly next time. I feel like share the blame as I should have checked that bolt but it never occurred to me. So I won't go around bad mouthing Top Flite because I got one bad plane out of 1000's made. Stuff happens and chalk one up to lesson learned.
WCB

gcb

Bax, check the threads on the ARF Nobler and the ARF Flite Streak on the Stuka Stunt Works forum. I think you have to sign in to do a search.

George

Old R/Cer

I started model building in 1968, control line mostly at a younger age. if you want to stop getting dizzy when flying any c/l plane look at the plane to see the attitude of the plane and when you feel dizzy stop watching the plane for a few seconds and for a few seconds stare at something motionless then look at the plane. Keep doing this while going around the circle and after time with practice the dizziness will go away, As far as your Nobler ARF kit I only build kits or scratch build with just plans,this is the ONLY way of knowing what exactly you have for a plane. Hazel Sig said that if you do a poor job of building, NO amount of paint or dope is going to make it look better. I have a relative that thinks building an R/C airplane is to spend 2 hours assembling a premanufactured kit from who knows what country of origin or even if the manufactured kit had ANY quality. AND calls himself as a modeler. You get what you pay for.!!!

Tom Nied

Just walk in a backward counterclockwise circle and you won't get dizzy. But this foruum is so old, probably nobody cares. Cheers.

AJ Sun

I bought a ARF TF Nobler. And have been looking at all this information. Never been a guy that was lucky. But I did open the kit. Will say it was really well boxed and appeared to be pretty complete. It was kind of impressive. But how would you ever see the bell crank or even-be able to inspect it? The wing is covered and the lead outs are complete. The flap rod is set and comes out of the wing assembly. That’s how my Nobler was boxed. Have not built it. I did get the Brodak Nobler. And will probably build it after I distroy my Veco Chief. I really wish I would have bought another Chief. It’s my favorite.AJ

AJ Sun

I attended a FAA IA seminar last weekend and met a group of U Control flyiers, most were out of Dallas and South around Waco Texas. Great group of guys and flying the Circle was the topic. At breaks of ten minutes and our lunch break. Two of the guys were Pretty active members of the Britherhoodofthering. Had a few things explained about the Brotherhood. Apparently Brodak sold off there ARFs and will not be offering them in the future. And a few other comments were offered. I’ve only built one Nobler that was in 1968 and was sold in 1971. Never flew the AMA early Stunt, but mastered a few of the patterns. I’ve often thought about building another Nobler. Never had a Bel crank failure. But never assembled an ARF tho I own a few. Bought them in soon to close hobby shops and one at a RC swap meet. That was one ARF Nobler Top Flight.AJ