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C/L scale handle

Old 11-11-2011, 02:10 PM
  #51  
Avaiojet
 
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

I have a U/Tronics Control system. In fact I just got it. Looks very well made.

I'll hook this bad boy to my CL handle and operate my throttle and rudder with a squeeze of the finger.

I did spend time researching the three line system, but progress did get the best of me.

Thank you U/Tronics!

Here's the model you're working.
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Old 11-12-2011, 09:14 AM
  #52  
Monellar
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

Clancy

I'm very interested in your system as it appears to be the answer to my control problems.

I'd be grateful if you would send me further details to monellar@aol.com

Thanks

monellar (Eric)
Old 11-12-2011, 06:09 PM
  #53  
Clancy Arnold
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

Eric
Information sent by e-mail. You did not say if you were interested in a Single channnel or a Multi (4-7) channel system so I included information for both.
Clancy
Old 02-22-2012, 09:37 AM
  #54  
Monellar
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

What are you guys using for the control lines??

I have made up lines from 80lb surflon 62ft long for my Shackleton, but I have found that the voltage drop is so large that the ESC's will not work.

I could use 120lb surflon but would be worried about the extra drag
Old 02-22-2012, 12:46 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

I doubt if the problem is 'voltage drop' as there would not be any current requirement (it would average a couple of milliamps). I suppose if the lines are extremely high resistance (like >100kohm), there would be a loss of voltage, but if they are some type of steel, that should not be the case.

Several people in the US are using the Clancy unit to power electric powered control-line models with the signal sent down the lines, and there should not be much difference between Clancy's U-Tronics and the handle you have, at least as far as it's ability to power the signal down the lines.

First thing to check would be the battery that powers the handle - a weak 'transmitter' battery would of course cause problems at the receiver end.

A common problem with the ESC's is that the throttle signal on some radios is backwards - ie 2 msec pulse width = LOW throttle and 1 msec = HIGH or the servo reversing switch is in the wrong position. This prevents the ESC from ever arming and operating as they all require some period of Low throttle (1.0 msec) in order to arm themselves.

I don't know if the handle you have has the ability to 'servo reverse' built in, but the first thing I would do is make sure that the signal is operating in the correct direction and that the end-points are ~1.0 - 2.0 msec.

If that is OK, then also check for and eliminate any high-resistance connection to the line(s).
Old 02-22-2012, 02:43 PM
  #56  
Clancy Arnold
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

Mikeainia
You have covered most of the problem areas but two more sometimes raise their heads.

The Handle it's self shorts the control lines together and the second is the model shorts the lines together.

At the Handle a cable as in a Hot Rock handle shorts the lines together. Or the electrical connnector for the lines is mounted on a piece of metal that is electrically connected to the other side of the handle.

At the model the problems can be the wires inside the model are tight together and the Cya glue softened the insulation allowing the wires to short. This mayshow up asan intermittant problem. The bellcrank is metal shorting the lines together. A remedy for thisis to place an Egg Insulator in one of the leadouts inside the wing.

As for the loss of signal through the lines, a typical set of .015 lines will measure about85 ohms each at 60 foot length. Larger size flying lines willhave less resistance. I have a 91 ohm resistor in series with each side of the output and return connections on my test board to simulate this line loss during testing.

I use 3/32 (Minature) ear phone jacks and plugs for my connections. I then make a Test Cable with a phone plug on each end to test the system without unrolling my lines. If it works with the Test Cable then I unroll my lines and connect them up. Now any problems are only associated with the line connections. The Test Cable is also handy when working on engine running problems or engine warm up ortune up. The Test Cable is handy when adjusting the servos in the model for other functions.
Clancy
Old 02-23-2012, 07:46 AM
  #57  
JohnBuckner
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

Or you could just drop the 'over the lines' set up altogether and utilize a modern 2.4 'over the air' set up.

Then you could use whatever lines you needed for your ship with no concern of insulation or the tedious hook up procedure associated with 'over the lines' systems.

Over the air will be far less expensive and far less setup time every outing, and almost unlimted number of functions possible and as I beleve with more reliabilty. Wear and tear as well as flexing of the connectors on each end is the Achilles heal.

As I posted earlier in this thread I had ten active years with the 'Bill Young' over the line system (a three channel set up) It did indeed serve me well and I still actively use it on two airplanes however with the arrival of 2.4 it cannot compete.

I am actively working on my next ship that will utilise 2.4. There is no problems rules or regulation banning this use in the US it would makes since for you to check in your own country as the advantages are great.

In my country while there is no bans for sport flying, there is/was an AMA rule aginst use of Over the Air in certain controlline competiions. This rule is now antiquated and makes no sense for 2.4. I do know there was rule proposals in the rules cycle process last summer to allow 2.4 in these events although I do not know of the outcome.

It make no differance anyway as I will not be going to those contests anyway.

This of course is just my opinion and what I am doing.

John[8D]
Old 02-23-2012, 08:31 AM
  #58  
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

JohnBuckner show us your set up. Did you mod the radio? Make it part of your control handle or just hold it seperate? I have been thinking along the lines of modding one so that it is part of the handle. Build a good handle and then gut a radio and add it to the handle. Just looking and thinking so far. Copied down plenty of pics of handles to base my next one on, and then add the rx bits, must do a trigger throttle control like the old JR. Roberts I have.
Old 02-23-2012, 08:33 AM
  #59  
Monellar
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

I'm a stuborn guy so will perservere for a while and try my hardest to get the down the wire system working.  If I fail then yep the 2.4 route is the way I will go.
Old 02-23-2012, 02:57 PM
  #60  
Clancy Arnold
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

Monellar
Ioffer you all the help I can provide. Please send me a sketch of how you have the electronics hooked up. Pictures may help.

Being the world supplier of U/Tronics Control units (Allways wanted to say that) of Over the Line electronic controls any question(s) you have I will try to answer or I will try to get you the answer. I not only design and build the units but I have competed with them since 1983.

The easiest way for me to help you is for you to e-mail me your questions and I can then answer by reply e-mail and include any sketches I feel might be helpfull. I have many sketches and written instructions that I have prepairedto answer questionsfor other modelers.

clancyarnold@juno.com

Clancy
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:27 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

ORIGINAL: flyingagin

JohnBuckner show us your set up. Did you mod the radio? Make it part of your control handle or just hold it seperate? I have been thinking along the lines of modding one so that it is part of the handle. Build a good handle and then gut a radio and add it to the handle. Just looking and thinking so far. Copied down plenty of pics of handles to base my next one on, and then add the rx bits, must do a trigger throttle control like the old JR. Roberts I have.

Flying agine have used and still use a Bill Young handle three channel or functions with pistol grip trigger for throttle. The next ship will in addition to the throttled engine with an HS-85 to operate the throttle will also carry a Hitec Optima Six Rx and either set up still carries a 270 mah four cell battery pack and that will be it for the airplane basic set up. Although I beleve I will install an on board servo for stooge release.

The goal is to be able to fly completely alone and to minmise the trips neccessary back and forth to the handle to just once in my wheelchair.

Now I will be using a an old Hitec Prism 7X with the 2.4 module and it will be on a neck strap hung high at breast height back wards so the the sticks point toward the airplane. Now I have tried this out while flying both my Magician and my Nobler actually using the Bill Young handle for tests and I found it will be very easy to simply reach up and hold the throttle stick or any of the others and I beleve this motion will be easier than using a handle with a trigger throttle.

My plan is to continue with the nobler and the Magician with the Young 'Over the Wire' system but all that are added in the future will be 2.4.

John



This is the Young Handle and system:
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:07 PM
  #62  
Clancy Arnold
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

Eric
The sketch above may be confusing.  In the model the two ESC's are connected to the flying lines through a typical RC "Y" Cable.  The flying lines are connected to the two outside pins and nothing is connected to the center pin on the "Y" cable center connector.  The Yellow wire on the U/Tronics unit must connect to the Signal input pin of each ESC.  Likewise the Black wire must connect to the Ground (Return) pin of each ESC.  You may have them reversed and that will prevent the ESC's from following the U/Tronics signal.

Have you made a test cable to connect the handle directly to the model?  I make the test cable about 3 feet long (1 Meter) and test that everything is functioning with it before unrolling and connecting my flying lines.  You should not see any change in the operaton between the Test Cable and the Flying lines.

The Single Channel unit I shipped you had an additional circuit board connected that added End Point adjustment to the control.  You might need to adust the 2 K ohm (or 5 K ohm) pot slightly to move the Idle/ Cut off end point. 

Clancy
Old 02-25-2012, 03:29 AM
  #63  
Monellar
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

Clancy

I think I've got it sorted - down to a dodgy solder connection at the stainless steel surflon wire.  I've redone the connections and everything appears to be working.
Will keep you updated but off now to an afternoon if indoor flying fun.

Eric
Old 02-25-2012, 06:15 AM
  #64  
Clancy Arnold
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

Eric
Ido not recommend soldering directly to the stainless steel lines.

My recommended connection is:
1. Cut a piece of 1/4 inch dia. shrink sleeving 3/4 inch long and slide it over the flying line.
2. Using a bright brass or silver colored sleeve make up the flying lines using a crimped or swaged connection.
3. Cut and strip about 1/4 inch a length of insulated stranded wire long enough to not restrict the control movement. See picture attached.
4. Tin the stripped end with solder.
5. Hold the insulated wire along side the flying line and solder it to the crimped or swaged sleeve of step 2.
6. Starting at 1/8 inch on the insulation from the solder connection fold over the insulated wire until it pointsthe opposite direction.
7. Slide the shrink sleeving from step 1 over the crimped orswaged sleeve and solder joint and shrink in place. See picture attached.

This protects and suppports the connection to your flying lines.
Clancy
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:09 PM
  #65  
clscale-RCU
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

I have been flying with electronic controls for over 20 years now and it's amazing how many twists and turns this has taken over the years. I wrote a book on electronic controls and a PDF copy is available on this web site which also happens to be a cool scale web site for CL. I wasn't abe to get Clancy's system in the book but it is very similar to the other systems in the book. Some of the chapters are oblsolete, but some of the chapters are still current.

The book also shows how I set up my flying lines. Look on this web page listed below about 1/2 way down on the right side.

http://www.eicnetwork.com/eic/Scale.html

There are many opinions on if the control box should be on the handle or on the belt. both answers are correct and work just fine. Me personally I like having the transmitter or servo drive on my belt that way I can have one unit that flies more than one airplane. Also note that I have a dedicated set of lines for each airplane. I like to keep the handle light as possible.

I will be experimenting with a 2.4 Ghz set up this summer. I recently found the Tactic brand 2.4 Ghz "Anylink" system that converted my older JR radios with DSC controls to 2.4 Ghz. I currently fly with a servo driver setup (custom electronics brand) or the JR DSC radio units, both go down the lines.

The AMA will be voting on the 2.4 Ghz rule proposal this year. There are two proposals, one for general that will allow 2.4Ghz in all CL events and if that fails then there is Grant Hiestands proposal to allow 2.4 Ghz for CL scale only.

By the Bill Young passed away last year, sad to see if go. I have fond memories working with him when he developed his line of CL scale handles in southern california. Bill Young approached Grant and myself and we tested several units before he went into production with the units.

Land softly,
Fred Cronenwett
Old 04-17-2012, 06:37 AM
  #66  
Monellar
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

Its been a long time in the making but at last my control handle fitted with the Clancy Arnold control systemis ready. All I need now is some very elusive good calm flying weather to get the Shackleton where she belongs - In the Air.

Getting good conections from the stainless steel cables was a bit of a challenge, however advice from this forum proved helpful - Thanks to all.

Hopefully my next entry will be with flying pics.

I now have an unused Fred Cronfelt handle For Sale if anyone wants to make me an offer
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:10 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

I simply crimp the electrical wires to the stainless steel wires and shown in my book (see link above) and have never had a problem with lines since the only thing being transmitted is a signal and ground down the lines. The battery power in the controller has it's own power and has a common ground with the airplane power system. The model and the controller share common ground, the controller sends a signal to the airplane.

I use to have a Bill Young handle, but now fly with a JR radio in DSC mode, or a servo driver for single channel. If 2.4 Ghz passes then I'll pull the down the wire electronic controls, install the tactic 2.4 ghz reciever and switch out to new flying lines.

I have my 2.4 Ghz test airplane almost ready for flight test

Fred C.
Old 04-20-2012, 12:38 AM
  #68  
Monellar
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Default RE: C/L scale handle

I have used the method you describe for the other connections but the final cannections to the aircraft and handle are made with standard 3mm bullet connectors.

For future projects I'd be very interested in the 2.4 system, seems so much easier. I'd be grateful for info and advise through this Forum as I am the only flyer in Norther Ireland embracing this means of control.

Thanks to all.

Eric

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