When I was a new pilot, I went to the field and picked up my instructor, I was so excited to fly that I nor my instructor bothered to check our frequency board. I turned on and shot down a $700 Breitling. My instructor explained that I would have to pay for the plane and he would kick in half. The man was paid in a half hour. It is a hard lesson to learn, but one I will never forget

Accidents do happen. If I shot down somebody I would do whatever could to compensate him. However, I do not have 8gs to pay some guy for his super jet. That part about taking my vehicle, or "whatever" is ludicrous. We all need to be prepared that someday we may not return with all pieces intact. If you cant deal with that, maybe you should have a 8 grand static model.
As I step down from my soap box, I want to be clear that I am not knocking anyone. I cherish my 500.00 plane just as much as they love their 8000.00 jets. Maybe the best solution is a radio impound
Just a thought!
Kevin

My hell- this thread is still alive.

How about this thread get limited to actual events- Only those who have shot or are shooters should post- Then we could all learn by real examples!!!

No offense intended toward you mitchell its just a really long post..

You have got to be KIDDing I hope[:@]

Just curious, if it bothers you why do you continue to read the post ?

I have been with this thread from the beginning- and I keep getting the post alerts- It kind of draws you in like that...

And no- I'm not kidding.. This thread is 97% BS - 2% good advice - and 1% insanity.. I really think that a thread that detailed what happened after a shoot down (after action report) would be more productive. It really would be helpful IMO and may even help spread a shoot down educate of some sort. At least people who have never been faced with the scenario would know how to approach it by recalling the true experiences of others..

Is something wrong with that or do I have the rosy glasses on again?

This may be true but even the best Psychologist listen to the worse insane people. IMHO I would like to know how people feel about this situation before it happens.

I have read the entire post and can recall some true experiences written, but back to the first thing I typed..

PS I'm not attacking you just wanted to know what you where thinking, or feeling, sorry if I caused you any disturbance . Thanks.

Hello,


maybe it's stupid, but to AVOID being shot down, at our club everybody has his own frequency.
Every season when membership is paid, you get your own freq.

If you don't pay after a month, your freq. is free and your no longer a member.
Ok, it's a small club (about 50 pilots), but these things never happen....

Maybe a solution ????

greetings from Belgium

Funflyerke

How is this a solution for the clubs that have 200+ memebers. The one club I was invited to join at one time had 350+ members.

Using your own frequency is a solution for your club but it can't apply to all clubs.

Good Luck

PS

Having a radio with a scanner is the only solution I can come up ,.....I turn my radio on it's scans to see if the freq it is programmed for is in use if it is the radio doesn't transmit. I tested it with another radio, so I know it works.

Legally/Ethically:
Shooter (A) is responsible for damage/loss without question if he broke club rules (frequency board)

Morally:
Shooter try to make good in the way he can, in agreement with the other pilot (B). Payback plan for instance if required.

Bottom line, it doesnt matter if the plane of (B) cost $100 or $10k nor is cost an excuse for (A) not to pay compensation.
Both (A) and (B) need to work it out.
It is not (B) responsibility to make sure he doesnt get shot down, how could he - he is flying.

In fullsize aviation you can bet that the birds flying have priority...

Mabye all new posters should read the previous 12 pages of posts- That might stop the flood....

P.S. -RC-FIEND I take no offense. I understand the importance of a healthy discussion and an open forum etc etc...

Guys with expensive planes I'm sure have all heard "there are only two types of planes; those that have crashed and those that are about to crash". I must have made over 1000 model airplanes since 1939 and have 14 at home now. And all but two have crashed. If you can,t afford to loose it, don't fly it. If one of you $8000 jet guys comes out to our field to fly, you will be turned away. We sure don't want you getting dumb thumbs and crashing into our neighboring wheat or cornfield and setting it on fire. That would be the end of our lease and leave us no place to fly our $300 patched together 4* 40's. Only a couple time in the past 15 years has one of our members had occassion to pay for damage he's done because of his negligence (never due to a shoot down as I remember). Most expensive was to buy a guy a new kit due to a crash on the flight line. The other was to turn in insurance to buy a flier a new drivers window for his car (not a pretty sight). We've had a couple mid-airs and laugh them off without trying to fix blame. That's the way it goes. We all know that when 8 pounds of balsa hits something when its going 60 mph it's time to get out the Tower catalog and figure out next winters project. In the meantime, use common sense and hope for the best. Good luck: we'll all need it.

I've seen the $300 and the $1000 planes get shot down. Actually, the $300 guys that I've seen yell much louder and almost get into fights more than the $1000+ guys that I've seen. This BS about if you don't want to loose your expensive plane then don't fly here is exactly that!!!! I'm sure glad that most clubs aren't like here and that most people get along, enjoy all types of flying and have some sense. As long as everyone follows the rules and gets their pin there's no reason that anyone shouldn't have a good time or go home without a plane.

Personally I wouldn't fly a 10k dollar plane on, or around, a club that is full of newbies who don't know any better. The choice is yours, and as far as the payment for the plane , I would like to see you try to get 10K out of a 10 year old kid who can't legally work in the United States.

Just use common sense and this should never happen.

Are we arguing about where to fly or about who is responsible for the described scenario?
Anyhow, it would not be the 10yr old that would pay if such a claim were made good, his legal guardians would be responsible for that.

Do you expect people to respect your property?

I thought it was a discussion, If I had a dollar for every time I heard of a kid causing damage to some ones property and the owner of the property tries to sue the parent which never flies in court I would one rich man. All I can say is use common sense, even if you use the field for your over expensive planes try to reserve time for flying it alone with no one to cause such accidents.

If I was out flying and a kid some how turns his radio on and it miraculously is on the same channel as mine and I go in , I wouldn't expect anything but an apology and probably would never fly on that frequency again or even at the field again knowing it can happen again and agian and again...... Hell I might just go back to flying little electrics .

This is a discussion, I'm challenging your comments

Is it hard to answer my questions?

If one of the kids in your area decided to play baseball in the street in front of your house and the ball go through the windscreen of your car, do you just shrug it off and pay for it yourself or would you expect his parents to cover that cost? Or if its your 50yr old neighbour that strikes the ball, then what?

The case is, one person cause damage to your property due to negligence. What is the right thing to do? The answer to the last question is "it depends".

Sorry I didn't answer your questions, but I thought it was clear with my examples.

If kids play ball on a street and there parents let them, before anything happens I would call the police and have it stopped. Now, if a kid breaks the window, unintentionally then I have no choice but to fix it myself. But back to the first thing I said, I would try to prevent this by walking out asking them not to play around parked cars etc. If they continued I would confront the parents then the police.

If an old man hit the ball , then I would ask him to pay for it keeping in mind I asked him not to play around parked cars, if I didn't speak to him before it happened then I guess he would have to repair my window. If he refuses then I would take him to court. After all he is an adult and should know better

Back to the SHOT DOWN SCENERIO.....All RC flyers at a clubs field don't know better and can't pay for $10000 planes. So I hand it back to you , the choice is yours, fly knowing this and suffer the consequences or just find some where else to fly which suits your style of aircraft. Whether $1 or $10000.

I sure wouldn't fly a park flyer in a park with 20 other park flyers trying to do there own thing.

You could also look at it from the other hand. If you know that you can't afford the price of the plane that's flying with you, then wait a second for it to land. The airspace doesn't just belong to the people that 'don't know better'. They have just as much right as you to enjoy flying. They and you paid your dues for equal time. It doesn't matter if your plane is $1 or $10 or $1000. If you are in the wrong you should do your best to make it right!!

What difference would this make if some kid is pulling up with his tranmitter on which he forgot to turn off when he left from home?

And beleive me , I do look at it from both sides, and the air space is every body's but I feel it is your own responsibility to make an intelligent descision on when, where and what you fly at a club or public land.

So if the dog walkers where I fly get hit by my plane, they should take the responsibilty of damage because they didn't wait until I landed or should I just not fly around the time I know when the dog walkers are normally out in the field to avoid this accident, because it is every body's space? . Better yet just fly where there are signs that specify no dog walking ?

See everybody is missing one very important point, responsibility starts and ends with yourself.

No problem! I just had a extra 2 cents in my pocket and needed to spend it...lol..
Kevin

You must have missed this part

If you are in the wrong you should do your best to make it right!! He would be in the wrong... Should he take responsibility for his mistake?


We're talking about a club field, not a park? There really shouldn't be any dog walkers on the runway, hmmm!!!

It does, and most don't or don't want to...

I quite agree and Responsibility to me is to act as expected, in compliance with set rules and if I do screw up I pay for the consequences. Payment may be in dollars or effort...
The same level of responsibility is expected from my peers. Thats common sense.

The base of this discussion is getting shot down in a club enviroment, a place where frequency control must be active.

Lets say I take a $10k jet to a AMA field with frequency board and turn on my tx, shooting down a LT40 trainer which is owned by a 14yr old that saved up all summer mowing lawns. Would I not then be expected to pay him what it would cost to set him up again with a new trainer? Would I be expected to pay based on A) Price of my model or B) It being my fault?

Admitting fault and take responsibility for one own actions is what we grow from, running away from them hiding would run us into the ground. Unfortunately there are too many examples of the latter...

1 - I felt you added circumstance to the setting I provided and therefore avoiding the point I wanted to make.
2 - You are not respsible for others ill doings, intentional or not. You are responsible for your actions only. Most parents own homes right? They then have home owner insurance which cover damage on other man's property. You do have a choice.
3 - He should have known better and if damage occur he would be expected to pay up without being asked to. He knew the risk and he took it.
4 - If I did get shot down in a club enviroment, I have then just suffered the consequences. Then I would expect the guilty party to suffer theirs. Common sense wouldnt you say?
5 - No problem there. Just be aware of the dogs, they might think your toy is a frisbee

Happy flying

Change to wouldn't.

Keep in mind I am not saying you are wrong. I agree, if any one does damage to your property they should with there best efforts try to compensate you for your loss. The point I am arguing is , compensation for your loss isn't always the available.

When I was younger around 22, some lady practicing how to drive hit my car. To make matters worse she didn't have any insurance on the car she was driving. To make matters more worse she drove off before the cops arrived to take information. When the cops arrived I gave them the plate number and he told me about the insurance issue. I then asked him what can I do ? he said you could take them to court for the $300.00 dollars worth of damage or just fix it myself. Being that I didn't want my insurance to go up from nonsense I just let it go and didn't even fix for the 15 years I had the car. But one thing was for sure I never went into that park again and have never been hit again by a fool with no insurrance.

Is this starting to make sense. All I can say is if you are flying a 10K dollar jet amoung $100-$300 dollar planes expect the worse.

Good Luck