smercernary

Hi there I am new and have had my Blade for a week now and I love it. I do have one question though, I saw a bulletin saying to make sure you cut the throttle before it crashes or else it will mess up the 4 in 1. I was wondering if a symptom of this would be a wobbling main rotor. When I run up the throttle you can see the see the blades wobble as if I was making slow circles with the cyclic control. It makes it super unstable and non flyable, I was wondering if it was the 4 in 1 because I was wondering if it was just lagging in it's compensation. If any of you are airplane pilots it looks like pilot induced oscillations. I was planning on buying a new 4 in 1 or two, but would like some verification before I spend $70 a pop on them. Thanks for any help you can give!

stevennh

You probably just have a bent main rotor. You could also have out-of-balance blades or flybar. Your 4-in-1 would not cause a wobbly main rotor. Remove the blades and carefully run the main rotor while holding on to the landing gear (watch your hands). It is fairly easy to see if the rotor is bent this way. The shaft and gear are cheap (around $5.00). The reason you want to cut power as soon as possible when crashed is that you will be putting way too much stress on the electronics in the ESC (and could also be putting way too much current through the brushes on your motor(s)). A 4-in-1 failure due to a stalled motor would probalby result in total loss of rotor power (tail or main).

I have had my Blade for about a month now and love it! I have replaced the main shaft once (among other things) for the same reason (wobbly blades).

Steve

stevennh

Cinder1995,

I picked up the Real-Flight G3 simulator about two months before I picked up my Blade and it really helps. I have spent quite a bit of time playing with the 30 trainer models in RealFlight and I have to say the simulator is pretty much right on. I find the simulator harder to fly than the real thing, so if you get the simulator down, flying the Blade will be no problem. I have had my Blade for about a month and have hover (tail-in) down pat and can walk around my yard behind the Blade flying it around (tail-in). I started nose in yesterday and figure I will be buying parts again soon! I have flown 3 channel planes, but I can't say that experience has been any help. These heli's are tricky but it's a fun challenge.


All,

On an unrelated note, I picked up the carbon fibre blades and they seemed OK at first, but it appears that the extra weight is too much for the standard power package. My flight times went way down and I had problems climbing out quickly with the standard battery packs. I have gone back to balsa and found my flight times went way back up. Should the CF blades be used only with the upgrade kit?

Steve

autoeject

My Feedback: (1)

smercernary,
Do you mean that the wobble is slow circles at lower throttle or whole rotor disk does circles as though your were moving right stick in slow circles? After numerous "pilot induced" crashes, I've yet to have 4-1 problems. I usually have the stick and trim off immediatly. I have bent the shaft once though and it does make it nearly unflyable. I just ran it up enough to determine the direction of the bend and progressively bent it in the opposite direction till there was no dicernable wobble. I did not disasseble it for this repair. Just held the main gear firmly. Good luck.
Mark

cfossa

My Feedback: (5)

Cinder1995:

I'm another newbie to helis and I agree ... you can do this. Your experience with RC cars will help when it comes to fixing and adjusting parts on the heli. From this respect, helis are a lot more like cars than planes ... most planes are balsa and repairs are much different. Flying a heli is not anything like driving a car, but then again it is very different from flying an RC plane. I am new to helis, but have been flying nitro and electric planes for a number of years.

I would absolutely recommend a simulator. It will pay for itself in no time. There is a free simulator called FMS that you can download. It is not great, but it will help you get the basics of controlling a heli. There are at least three very good simulators that all cost about $200. Realflight G3, AeroflyPro Deluxe, and Reflex are the latest versions of these three sims. I have personally used and owned Realflight G2, Aerofly Pro, and Realflight G3. They are all very good and will help you learn to fly.

Good luck and welcome to the hobby!

Carl

cruzmissile

THis article has some good stuff about how to get the Heli to hover inverted.

[link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Explore/Article.aspx?ArticleID=1461]go inverted[/link]

smercernary

That's exactly what is happening, I pulled it all apart and the main shaft looks fine. Although I was looking at the spindle and the main blade grips assembly and it looks like it is a little bent, but it looks symmetrical so is it supposed to be that way or should the blade grips be in line with each other? I really appreciate all the help you guys are giving me.

mustangflyboy

My Feedback: (2)

did someone mention that adding a second o ring on both sides of the spindle increased responsiveness? I put them on but when I tighten the end cap screws it squishes them and binds the grips. I can't really see how they can help when they are just out there floating on the spindle. Or am I supposed to countersink the rotor hub some more?
I tried to do a search but could't find what I am looking for.
I got the guts to try to execute a loop. I got all the forward speed I could up high and pulled back on the cyclic, but it seems to rotate too slowly or something because it only made it to about straight up when it lost airspeed and came screaming down. Saved it though. But I"m not trying it again until I feel it is more capable.
So I am looking for more responsiveness, more agility.
Here is some thing else I find strange; when bench testing the heli in idle up mode motor seems to put out a lot more power(rpms) in full negative throttle than in full positive, trim doesn't make a lot of difference. Anyone have this same thing

cinder1995

Thanks stevennh & cfossa

If I download the free simulator I would assume that I need set of paddles. Do the simulators come with them? Is it better to buy the heli you want and then use it's paddles?

One last question. Can you get the simulators used on Ebay or do you have to keep the software(disc) to be able to use it?

autoeject

My Feedback: (1)

smercernary,
The blade grips should be in-line with each other. If your spindle is bent, I can only imagine what grief that must be causing. Especially if it were to rotate within the head as the head were rotating.

mustang,
Haven't seen anything myself about adding another o-ring. And I would think that the only way to make the o-ring equiped head tighter would be to compress the rubber making it bind as you mentioned. JMO but I would think replacing the o-rings with bearings would be the only real way to make the head more rigid. I'd be interested to hear how it goes if you try it..
Mark

cruzmissile

Last week we got a new shipment of blade cp's in our store and a memo was included in the new shipments stating that there is an optional upgrade to the blade grips by adding a bearing to replace the orings to create a more rigid frame. EFLH 1162B is the part number I think. I looked on Horizon hobby and it doesn't show a photo but the memo included in the new kits do have an exploded view and I will have to review it much closer to determine if it's a total of 4 bearings in the blade grip pairs or just one. I'll get back with everyone about this later.

The reason is cause i have noticed the blades are moving more freely than should or than when I first got it. Sees as if the orings are getting too soft. But by adding an additional 3x6x3.5mm bearing would cause the blades to not wiggle up and down too much.

stevennh

cinder1995,

The Real-Flight simulator came with a controller made by Futaba (two sticks). It feels very much like my e-Flight controller (Blade-CP). I think you can get serial cables to interface other controllers to FMS, but I have never done this. I have loaded my copy of real-flight on a couple of machines and the same license key works for both. The disk does not need to be in the computer for real-flight.

I was able to use my computer joystick with FMS a long time ago, that was fine for 3 channel planes, but you need a two stick controller for the heli's. I see there is a connector on the back of my e-flight controller but I did not get an adapter with the package (blade-CP).

I was pretty bummed to see that real-flight cost almost as much as my blade, but it has surely helped with the learning curve.

Steve

autoeject

My Feedback: (1)

cruz
Have you noticed any difference in you flights since the softening of the o-rings. I'm not certian, but I think my control responses are getting somewhat sluggish. Might just be cuz I noticed the increased play in the main blades. I would be interested in such an upgrade if available.
Mark

rampage

My Feedback: (2)

blade cp upgrade works really well
remove the two orings and replace them with two 180 gearbox bearings (perfect fit ). then remove the two inner washers and reasemble i did it to mine and well it gets a little bit better response and lift is more responsive if you do not remove two wahsers one side or the other will bind

DarkWombat

Whew I'm back in action now! So, in response to your post goodbeer...

1. I would recommend sticking with symmetrical blades when you have the LiPo, as they will increase rotor speed which means more stability
2. The balsa blades are OK, and while they'll slightly increase your rotor head speeds I would stick with the CF blades, because they're thinner which means less resistance, and much more rigid and durable so you get better holding poewr
3. Don't switch back to the stock battery. LiPo's are much better than the stock battery IMO. Just make sure you don't overdischarge it!
4. If you use the standard battery you have to go back to a 10T motor. LiPo's will dish out 11.1 volts of power, the stock batt only dishes out 9.6 volts. That drop in voltage means significantly lower RPM's, so if you don't have the 10T motor your rotor speed will be so low you won't be able to do much with the heli. That being said, DO NOT use a 10T motor with a LiPo! The stress on the motor and the rotor blade rpm's will be so high that the motor will burn out quickly or you could possibly damage your whole rotor head assembly!
5. If you have the 900mah battery, about an hour and 45 minutes to 2 hours I'd say. The 1320 mah LiPo would take you forever, you'd probably have to charge several times because the charger would cut off after two hours. Just charge at .85C to 1C the capacity so you don't have to wait forever.
6. Hovering is the hardest thing to do, because any small change in the forces acting on the helicopter means you have to compensate for it. Forward flight is easier because the heli straightens out and slices through the air so it's more stable. But learn to hover first or you will be in biiiig trouble. No hovering in the living room until you can do it outside, unless your living room has about a 15' x 15' area with nothing in the way. Still, I wouldn't recommend it.
7. You cannot change the transmitter's exponential settings. For that you need to get an aftermarket radio.

Hope that helps.
DarkWombat

nate1001

My Feedback: (2)

Did anybody see the jr reciever hack in rotory flyer? It shows how to use the stock 4 in 1 and take out the regular rx and put in a jr rx. looks neat and can't wait to try it. also, does anybody have a 4 in 1 that has a clear case. a friend just got one and I was wondering if that was meant to denote a change in the heli

cruzmissile

I didn't really notice any sluggishness in response with the softening of the orings, but I did move the flybar weight collars all the way to the rotor head and added 1 degree of positive angle and it responded very well. It doesn't see-saw as bad as it did. I think in the earlier threads someone did the same thing and they also stated that response was greatly increased. Here is a photo of what I did.

cruzmissile

darkwombat,

It's really your call on this one. Where I live just going outside is not an option and I don't have time to just drive somewhere. My flying space looks like the lower first photo. I learned how to hover in this small space and it pays off when you do go outside because with this out side seems like your flying in outer space. There just seems to be so much room. If you can hover in this small space, you can hover anywhere. The dimensions are 8 1/2 feet x 11 feet. Trust me, if you can learn to hover in a small area, it will pay off in the long run. You'll amaze your friends by landing on things such as coffee table, foot rest.

cruzmissile

Here is a video of what you can accomplish with learning how to hover in such a small area.

[link=http://media.putfile.com/Japan-Heli-Comp_0001]Mad Skills[/link]

autoeject

My Feedback: (1)

Rampage
Thanks for the bearing info. I'll have to give that a shot.

Cruz
I'm with ya there. Learned to fly indoors last winter with a cheapy fp. Took alot more abuse than blade would but makes your skills sharper IMO. Video was impressive also. Be interested in trying an obsticle course like that myself.
Mark

imukdude

Ok so I just got my E Flite blade and having probs I am kinda of new to this but I pick up stuff real quick my question is should it be all over the place or should be an easy hover oput of the box, if i power up and get some air with all th sticks at there starting points then its just all over the place even before i give it some directional stick. please help

MikeFreas

I crashed my blade yesterday afternoon for a combination of mechanical failure and messing around. One of my paddle control pushrods came off after an uneventful landing in tall grass. I popped it back on and noticed it came off with little or no effort. I should have stopped there I guess. I decided to mess around and got one of my sons little parachute guys and removed the chute. I used some string and made a loop to go over the skid of my heli. Once the kids realized what I was doing the mayhem started as they thought it was funny/cool as hell. I lifted off without a problem and went to about 30 ft up and held it there until.....The paddle control pushrod came off again and down she came. The tail motor housing busted off and the canopy is toast but other than that and the pushrod it seems ok. Oh well. I thought it was cool to!

cruzmissile

This is normal if you've never flown a heli before. The reason is because your hand-eye coordination is not tuned to flying a helicopter. It takes time and practice. It's basically like balancing a marble on a piece of glass in the shape of your eyeball lens. Just takes time to master.

Here's a question for anyone, I want to get a cool looking fuselage for my blade. I've found this website that sells them for micro heli's. It states will fit a piccolo. I was wondering what is the size in relationship to the blade CP. Here's a photo of it.

Wanny07

Cruz,

My guess is that it doesn't fit the Blade exactly. I just got a Huey a couple of days ago and have been cutting it to fit my Blade. I talked to the guy at the (online) store that I bought from and he said that it would fit the micro heli's with some modifications. I had to cut the top so the servo arms would fit and the swash plate could turn. I also had to cut so the struts would come through the plastic. It took a couple of hours to get it all right. I just painted it today and am looking for a couple of ideas to spice it up a little....however, still keeping the miltary theme!

Brian

cruzmissile

imukdude

To fly a heli, you must first understand a heli's functions, how it works and why it does what it does.

A heli is not going to fly like a plane, it's not that easly done at first. Your basically controlling a gyroscopic machine in the air. When you push it to do one thing, the gyroscopic actions will cause it to do another. Sometimes in ways that seems impossible to figure out. By careful observation, you will realize that when you input one command the heli will react that way all the time.

For example. When lifting off the increasing rpm and rotation of the blades will cause the heli body to rotates in the opposite direction. Newton's law of motion. The tail is there to counter act this tendency. However now you are putting a new parameter in the equation. As the blade rotates the tail rotor will counteract this motion at the same time push the heli in the direction it is acting on. For this heli the action observed when lifting off is that the heli will want to wander to the left. This is where right cyclic is given to prevent this leftward veering action.

The same opposite is given when landing. The heli will rotate right and left cyclic along with the apropriate rudder coordination is being used. I don't want to get into too much, I know most people will see a post that's more than 2 lines and just skip over it. I do that most of the time if I'm in a hurry to look for something else.