tIANci ... I fully agree that 4035-250 on 10S with 18x10 is more than enough. Actually I plan getting one too.</p>

I believe that in no way C5014L manufacturing costs are 3 times higher than 4035, there is a lot of marketing in that price, too much for my taste.</p>

@Velco and Joe....thank you for replay and information,and i know what i have to do now..100% change my heading to scorpion...[sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif]

@Tianci...i'll be waiting for your PM...[sm=thumbs_up.gif],and tianci where you get that scorpion?,is it in singapore?..

okypolice ... Ha..ha... why don't you ask me .... i bring in the scropion motor for him la ...!
With the 4035 with Xoar wood E-prop 18x10 you get 2600watts 68amp at wot . . !!
and you can hover this plane at about half thortle , plenty power to pull out
If you need one , can get for you ...

You might want to check if Neu has an engine equivalent to the Hacker. They charge less marketing fees

Neu HAS a direct fit model! It is the 1915/3Y. It is a direct-drive inrunner with specs comparable to the Scorpion 4035. Unfortunately there is little data for these motors swinging pattern props.

See the specs here:
http://www.neumotors.com/Site/1900_series.html

I am really curious to know how this motor would work in the Wind 110.

I have to admit I did not look at what Neu has to offer for Wind 110. And just looking at the specs I would go for 1917 2.5Y which would be able to swing on 10S a 19x12 or even 20x12 if it is not a clearance issue? That would definitively help reduce the speed in downlines.</p>

Also it is still 50g less than A5016L. Interesting [X(]! </p>

Where can I get Neu motors in EU?</p>

Look near the bottom of this page:
http://www.neumotors.com/Site/Where_to_buy.html

This is from one of the links:
http://www.eflight.ch/shop/USER_ARTI...ING_AUFRUF.php

Also, maybe shoot them an email? Not sure if you can buy direct.

AND, PLEASE let us know how this works out!!! I would like to go the Neu route as well, but not looking to take any chances on my first electric AND my good competition plane.

OK, I tell you my secret:</p>

What I have learned so far about outrunners is that 2 values are the most important: kV and weight.</p>

1) From kV or rpm/volt we know how a certain motor is going to perform, hence at 37V (or 3,7V per cell) on a 10S pack under load that motor would be at 8880 rpm if it would be 100% efficient. Well there is no such thing which is 100% efficient and usually at full power you get somewhere around 85% efficiency hence in this case 7500 rpm.</p>

2) A prop of certain size needs certain amount of power to spin at certain revs, so if I use any of calc programs (in this case Scorpion Calc which can be found on Scorpion site, and is freeware) I can see that 19x12 needs 2,4kW for 7.600 rpm. So this is absolutely within power limits for this motor as at 60% throttle in level flight we usually use very little power, not more than 20% with a 19x12 prop. This can be calculated in Motocalc.</p>

3) The weight of a motor can also (usually) tell us how much power (heat) a certain motor can absorb (dissipate) but luckily Neu and Scorpion give us these values.
</p>

This was the hard way how to determine which combo for which motor, but there is an easy way, my favorite: go to Axi site http://www.modelmotors.cz/ check what combo (prop and bat) Axi is suggesting for a certain kV and weight , stay within 5% of the Axi values and voila; for our case the most similar Axi motor to Neu 1917 2.5Y would be 5325/24 232kV with 570g spinning up to 20x13 on 10S.

What should be remembered is that Neu motors have one of the best power/weight ratio together with Scorpion (but we all know that Hacker and Axi are under rated). Probably Neu is using magnets as well as Scorpion is which are resistant up to 200 degrees Celsius, some 120 degrees more what most of the others use.</p>

And for any other setup this is what I wrote somewhere else:</p>

To determine my initial setup I always first visit AXI site http://www.modelmotors.cz/ as there is a very nice tool: FAST AXI SETUP , you can find it on the right hand side of the home page.

In that tool you can now choose type of model (in this case aerobatic) and the total weight on take off (in our case 1500g). Lets click on FIND SETUP, the tool now suggests various AXI motors, and as I always prefer to have more reserve of power than AXI suggests I would take 2820/12 which is good up to 2000g aerobatic. The suggested battery in this case is 3S, 40A ESC and 12x6 prop. I do agree with bat, but would take a larger ESC (60A) and the prop is OK. Also by selecting a slightly larger motor you do not need to push it to the max all the time, a lot of benefits for only very small gain in weight.

Now If we want to get an AXI motor we are fine, but if we don't want an AXI what have we learned from this? Any other motor of this size (equal diameter and weight) with this or a kV within 5% difference will be OK. So now we can go and choose whatever we want, Hacker, Scorpion, Turnigy, Hyperion ...

What I can add here that not all motors are built the same, and this results in higher efficiency, heat tolerance and durability. Is Neu 1917 worth more than Scorpion 4035 as much as it costs more? Well, from what Iread about Neu, my guess is yes.</p>

So this is my 4 year experience with electro, use it wisely ... </p>

Velco</p>

Velco, don't forget that Neu motor is an inrunner, and we are comparing it to outrunners. I don't know enough about this stuff to make an accurate comparison, but I know enough that the motor should work with the right prop.

Within the Neu motor selection, I don't know how to decide if the 1912, 1915, or 1917 is the right choice for our application. I liked the 1915 at first because the length is very close to the Hacker - I was thinking we could still use the rear support. Then I realized it's an inrunner and probably doesn't need or have a rear support to begin with.

The Neu specs don't give a max amperage. If using one given battery with a given C limit, isn't there only so much power (Watts=Amps*Volts) you can get from the battery?

I don't know how the weight thing fits in here as the Scorpion 4025-16 is a few ounces lighter than the 4035-250, yet it can handle 15 more continuous amps, and thus deliver power within 200 watts of the 4035.

I obviously don't know much about this stuff. I like Neu because I know people competing with Neu motors (although the F3A inrunner models). Hacker has a great reputation and also is widely used, but the motor selection for this plane seems underpowered compared to the other options. Scorpion is new to me and I know no one running Scorpion motors which is why I'm still considering the Neu. So far the Scorpion is my 1st choice just because I have an idea what to expect.

Oh well, I haven't realized that 19xx are inrunners! From the photo they stil look to me like outrunners. Definitively Neu motors are different from the rest because an inrunner 8 pole with such low kV I don't think exists elsewhere! Also in calc programs available on the net I can not find 1917 to be able to compare some numbers.</p>

In theory inrunners have less torque but can rev higher than outrunners, but this is just theory.</p>

I think that the only way to know exactly is to give Steve a call, or send him a pm, his nick is sneu.</p>

What I have previously written is absolutely applicable for all outrunners.</p>

I think I am going back to Scorpion, unless you make the experiment for all of us .</p>

Oxy ... Huison yang tolong beli bagi saya. Go with the 4035 if you going 10S, its much more convenient, perfect fit.

gaRCfield ... you got her fully bling-ed out, I will get new servos next year, the Hitec 5485s will not cut it. I am gonna get Futabas.



MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

@Golden...mohon maaf la,im sorry..i dont know,if you bring in that motor to tianci..hehehe..[sm=biggrin.gif]...and today i just received my beauty wind s 110,very nice aeroplane..[sm=thumbs_up.gif]...and i ordered scorpion 4035-250 also same like you n tianci...for esc i use hobby wing Pentium 100A HV..i hope this setup will work as good as you are..[sm=wink_smile.gif]..
@Tianci and Golden...what do you think if i use 8s for that setup?...

....MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OF YOU....

Best regard,OKY

Oky ... I went 10S because I have 5S packs, tak nak beli extra 4S aje. I am also using that China made JETI styled ESC, no probs at the moment. No cogging issues also.

haaa...no wonder la.......So,its mean that if im using 8s,its can fly as good as you are..n sorry i was wrong about esc,i aimed i'll useiing Hobby Wing Platinum 120A-HV-PRO,with soft,hard,and very hard brake programing..
Tianci or Golden..,how is the result when Golden/you use the TCanalizer when make a KE and Rolling?,coz im planning to using TCanalizer also..

Oky ... for 4035-250 on 8S you would need 21x14 on 100A to have a similar performance as with 10S and 18x10 on 65A. If you really want 8S then 4035-330 on 17x10 would give you good performance but still &gt;85A. Power needed is always the same and power is always W = V x A where it is always better to have more V and less A for better efficiency.</p>


</p>

gaRCfield ... I really tried hard to find an online calculator where I can compare Neu 19xx with very similar outrunner and I managed!</p>

On this link http://brantuas.com/ezcalc/dma1.asp there is an online calculator and I compared the following:</p>

Neu 1905/2.5Y - 850 on APC 14x7 with NeuEnergy 4S 3200 and CC85 HV ESC against</p>

Scorpion S3026-12 and other same as the above.</p>

The result is (almost) identical rpm on identical Amps. These kind of calculators are not very good at giving real life numbers but are very good at comparing things. I don't know how and if the calculator is taking into account physical differences that are obvious between inrunners and outrunners, but from this it appears they behave the same.</p>

Also here http://www.gobrushless.com/kb/index....01_-_Chapter_1 there is a very, very detailed (and long) explanation about brushless motors in general and many other things regarding the subject.</p>

I really do not understand why more producers do not publish real life numbers with many different props as Scorpion does for all of their new motors? Are they hiding something? I really do believe that Neu motors would be selling great not just in the USA if this data would be available.</p>

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE.</p>

Velco</p>

Thank you for your advice velco,im really appreciated...So,what do you suggestios for ESC?,how much ampere for both 8s and 10s...?????...im very curious about this one...

Golden and Tianci...can you tell me,what type of esc did you use?..

Well, a Sentilon 100A 5-12S at Hobby King is a good and not expensive ESC. However it does not have a programmable brake which is a very good thing to have. You might consider a Jeti 99 Spin, used very often for F3A applications.

Oky ... I am flying her stock ... no T-top etc. Golden has tried it so he can give you some feedback. As for ESC mine is the Hobby Wing type one, its a 100A. It works fine but no braking functions. Does not matter to me as I am non competitive, fly it as a mere hobby only. Golden will be in KL this Sunday and he will fly my plane, I will wait to see his comments about my trim and set up. Will get him to fly my Ms Wind 50 too.

@Velco....thank you for advice...[sm=thumbs_up.gif]..but,i'll try hobby wing 120HV-Pro...

@Tianci...ok tianci,i'll be waiting for golden feedback and thank you for your answer... [sm=teeth_smile.gif]...

Castle Creations just released the Phoenix ICE HV which can handle 10S and give data logging, and is fully programmable. It is a good bargain for a high-end ESC.

I sent an email to S. Neu a few weeks ago about the motor and heard nothing back. I called Castle Creations who is the distributor for the motors; they regularly sell a smaller inrunner for a direct-drive F3A application (1905 and 1912 for 30/60 size applications), and said that the 1915/1917 would work but wondered why I wasn't going for a geared F3A motor. They didn't say the motor I was looking at was wrong or bad, but never really confirmed that it was a good choice for the plane (I think because they believed the F3A motor was the better choice).

I'm going to read the link above and try to learn about maintenance differences, etc. However as much as I'd love to say I have a Neu motor bolted to the front of my plane, my best interests are concerned with something easy and reliable and trusted, and it seems that Scorpion is the proper fit.

If I had two similar sized planes I would absolutely give the Neu a shot, but I need to concentrate on what will put me in the winners circle and really not take any gambles here.

So I checked out the calc listed above - it's actually the same as on Neu's site. I wanted to look at motors already being used on this plane, so I compared the Neu 1912/2.5Y to the Scorpion 4025-16, both on 8S - the numbers are really close!! The motors are nearly identical in size, weight, and kV. A 17x10 on the Scorpion and a 17x12 on the Neu posts very similar results, with the Neu giving slightly more thrust, a little more speed, and less overall power/efficiency. Or you can put an 18x10 on the Neu and have slightly less thrust, speed, and power, again a little less efficient.

So, looks like the New and the Scorpion are really similar, with the Scorpion just favoring in efficiency and power and the Neu favoring a larger prop. One would think that this would translate to the larger 10S motors similarly, so maybe a 19x10 on the Neu and an 18x10 on the Scorpion. So, an extra $100 for an extra inch on the prop?? Probably not here.

I've heard inrunners and outrunners compared similarly to 2 and 4 stroke wet fuel engines. I think I remember hearing that the inrunners were more like the 4S, which is what I saw with the calculator. So, maybe a little stronger pullout and better throttle response from the Neu?

Joe,

Just one other consideration for you to think about. I know that you have ordered a new set of carbon (or fiber) gear for your Wind from your previous posts. I have the stock gear on mine and I am running an 18x0 prop. I don't believe that I could run a 19" prop and have enough ground clearence on a grass field. I am apparently nicking the grass now at times as I have some green grass stains on the tips of the prop after I land. Hopefully your new gear will give you a little more ground clearence. I seem to remember Tommy S posting that he had also ordered and installed carbon gear for ground clearence issues. Just a thought when picking out your motor and prop size.

Larry..

Joe, for your first large electric I really suggest you follow what others have done as far as components. Bolt on a known combo that others have had success with and go. Experimenting can be saved to later after you get comfortable with everything. I see it very often were guys buy components that nobody has tested together before and end up spending a lot more time and money experimenting with props and controller settings etc than the guy that just copies a known set up that is running correctly. There is plenty of time for experimenting later, but I really would not stray on your first project.

Hope to see your Wind 110 at a D1 contest next year - probably Oasis in the Spring.

Chris

Oky , as for the ESC , get the CC85HV it has break setting , you will need that to slow down the plane at the down line ...... and when you move to 2m plane ,u still can use it !
i alread have one on order and on the way problely next week . . ..

As for the T ..... hemm not really try it ... i did put it on but it mess up all my setting . i just have 1 flight only ... so not to give comment ...!