Sebart Wind 110
03-09-2011 | 08:07 AM
#1452
My Feedback: (8)
RE: Sebart Wind 110
Huison,
Thanks for telling us you're on your third Scorpion motor. It really builds a case as to how crappy these motors are. I sent an email on Monday about when my motor will be replaced; it's been gone for 8 months and still no definitive answer about when I will be accommodated.
It is a shame, as it's nice to have a 10S option that fits inside the slender motor box and doesn't weigh a ton. Unfortunately little demand has caused Xera motors to discontinue the appropriate 4035 motor, however a new motor is in the pipeline for the next month or so, but at 56mm it will require a small amount of shaving. At least the magnets are secured in place mechanically.
Does anyone have the NEW version of Scorpion with the magnets mechanically fastened?
Thanks for telling us you're on your third Scorpion motor. It really builds a case as to how crappy these motors are. I sent an email on Monday about when my motor will be replaced; it's been gone for 8 months and still no definitive answer about when I will be accommodated.
It is a shame, as it's nice to have a 10S option that fits inside the slender motor box and doesn't weigh a ton. Unfortunately little demand has caused Xera motors to discontinue the appropriate 4035 motor, however a new motor is in the pipeline for the next month or so, but at 56mm it will require a small amount of shaving. At least the magnets are secured in place mechanically.
Does anyone have the NEW version of Scorpion with the magnets mechanically fastened?
03-09-2011 | 08:57 AM
#1453
RE: Sebart Wind 110
ORIGINAL: tIANci
Wanna ask you guys something. I know that some car guys use the EPA of the radio on their throttle to cut down on performance. As I am using a 10S set up on my Scorpion 4035-250 and many have stated it will tend to throw a magnet on 10S, what is I were to cut down on my EPA and prop her for an 8S set up? It would give me much more duration as I am flying her 10S on an 8S power when WOT. Any comments? Will reducing the EPA change the feel of the throttle if I were not to adjust my throttle point when on 10S?
Just wondering when my motor will throw her magnet esp when its about 30C here. Thanks!
Wanna ask you guys something. I know that some car guys use the EPA of the radio on their throttle to cut down on performance. As I am using a 10S set up on my Scorpion 4035-250 and many have stated it will tend to throw a magnet on 10S, what is I were to cut down on my EPA and prop her for an 8S set up? It would give me much more duration as I am flying her 10S on an 8S power when WOT. Any comments? Will reducing the EPA change the feel of the throttle if I were not to adjust my throttle point when on 10S?
Just wondering when my motor will throw her magnet esp when its about 30C here. Thanks!
03-09-2011 | 09:51 AM
#1454
My Feedback: (45)
RE: Sebart Wind 110
Brake is
Brake is exactly what it sounds like. It keeps the motor from being able to speed up on downlines and such. One issue in pattern is the ability to maintain constant speed, and with internal combustion motors, especially 2 strokes, even at idle they tend to accelerate. With an electric motor this can be elminated to some degree. These motors move very freely. An easy test is to put your motor at full idle at the house and then put a fan in front of it and watch it speed up. This is what would happen if you are in the air. The brake limits this from happening to a certain degree making downlines and such much easier to maintain a constant speed. Be careful in how much brake you use though as some ESCs get unhappy with too much as it can affect the timing when you add throttle back in.
Arch
ORIGINAL: InboundLZ
Guys, still learning this electric stuff....can you explain ''brake'' to me? What is it and what does it do for me?
Thanks!
Guys, still learning this electric stuff....can you explain ''brake'' to me? What is it and what does it do for me?
Thanks!
Arch
03-09-2011 | 11:13 AM
#1455
RE: Sebart Wind 110
Not sure Iunderstand the logic here. Ithink what the poster is suggesting is re-setting the throttle such that full throttle on the stick would be seen by the motor as, say, 3/4 throttle, which is equivalent to doing no EPAadjustment and never moving past 3/4 throttle. Assuming the ESC doesn't automatically re-scale the input (Iunderstand some ESC's will just take the highest seen signal and put out full power at that point), what's so bad about never going past 3/4 throttle?
ORIGINAL: Alan W
This is generally NOT a good idea - it is very hard on the speed control FETs if run at near WOT for significant times. F5B/F5D guys use throttle on a switch (usually gear) to avoid high current switching associated with less than WOT
ORIGINAL: tIANci
Wanna ask you guys something. I know that some car guys use the EPA of the radio on their throttle to cut down on performance. As I am using a 10S set up on my Scorpion 4035-250 and many have stated it will tend to throw a magnet on 10S, what is I were to cut down on my EPA and prop her for an 8S set up? It would give me much more duration as I am flying her 10S on an 8S power when WOT. Any comments? Will reducing the EPA change the feel of the throttle if I were not to adjust my throttle point when on 10S?
Just wondering when my motor will throw her magnet esp when its about 30C here. Thanks!
Wanna ask you guys something. I know that some car guys use the EPA of the radio on their throttle to cut down on performance. As I am using a 10S set up on my Scorpion 4035-250 and many have stated it will tend to throw a magnet on 10S, what is I were to cut down on my EPA and prop her for an 8S set up? It would give me much more duration as I am flying her 10S on an 8S power when WOT. Any comments? Will reducing the EPA change the feel of the throttle if I were not to adjust my throttle point when on 10S?
Just wondering when my motor will throw her magnet esp when its about 30C here. Thanks!
03-09-2011 | 11:28 AM
#1456
My Feedback: (8)
RE: Sebart Wind 110
The problem is that ESC sends pulses of full power to the motor. More throttle is just more pulses. The current readings we see are an average of the fluctuations between 0 and full power. Thus, you are not limiting max current to the Motor, only the duration.
Many ESCs will let you switch between fixed and variable end points. Fixed end points you dictate, and they stay. Variable end points are adjusted by the ESC.
Many ESCs will let you switch between fixed and variable end points. Fixed end points you dictate, and they stay. Variable end points are adjusted by the ESC.
03-09-2011 | 11:48 AM
#1457
RE: Sebart Wind 110
ORIGINAL: rjtw
Not sure I understand the logic here. I think what the poster is suggesting is re-setting the throttle such that full throttle on the stick would be seen by the motor as, say, 3/4 throttle,
Not sure I understand the logic here. I think what the poster is suggesting is re-setting the throttle such that full throttle on the stick would be seen by the motor as, say, 3/4 throttle,
03-09-2011 | 02:22 PM
#1458
RE: Sebart Wind 110
Right, so the ESC and motor are actually seeing the peak 10S voltage, just for shorter durations. It seems that this should theoretically be OK as long as the ESC and motor are appropriately rated in terms of both voltage and current.
Tianci I'd run your plans past your motor/ESC manufacturers.</p>
03-09-2011 | 04:04 PM
#1459
My Feedback: (8)
RE: Sebart Wind 110
ORIGINAL: rjtw
Right, so the ESC and motor are actually seeing the peak 10S voltage, just for shorter durations. It seems that this should theoretically be OK as long as the ESC and motor are appropriately rated in terms of both voltage and current.
Tianci I'd run your plans past your motor/ESC manufacturers.</p>
Right, so the ESC and motor are actually seeing the peak 10S voltage, just for shorter durations. It seems that this should theoretically be OK as long as the ESC and motor are appropriately rated in terms of both voltage and current.
Tianci I'd run your plans past your motor/ESC manufacturers.</p>
We are finding that these Scorpion motors are well over-spec'd, so there is issue with what is 'appropriately rated'.
An analogy could be, for example, towing a trailer with your car. It's like your car is rated to tow 3000lbs. You fill the trailer to 5000lbs, but intermittently hit the gas to keep the engine from constantly working. The car is still seeing the 5000lbs, just for shorter durations. You might not get an overheated engine, but you still put the stresses on the drive train.
18x10 props are right in the recommended range for the Scorpion 4035-250, but the motor just can't handle it. 17x10 would be better, 18x8 might be OK.
18x12 seemed to run pretty cool in the 210 version. I got one from a friend here on RCU to use at the end of last season. It does make some funny noises (as it did when I got it) and between the previous owner and I, there still are not many flights on the motor. I'll apparently still have it as this season starts, since I'm still not hearing anything back about my warranty motor.
I'm considering this new version of X-era motor, maybe an Axi (lots of cutting [
]), and maybe a Neu Inrunner, and maybe still a Hacker A50 on 10S, or 8S.Crap, back to square one!! [:'(][:@][&:]
[&o]
03-10-2011 | 10:36 AM
#1461
My Feedback: (8)
RE: Sebart Wind 110
Here is an update from Innov8tive Designs:
Joe,
The Scorpion S-4035-210 motors were custom wound at the factory at my request for 4-5 different customers. This is not a normally stocked item, and the replacements also need to be custom made, so they are not readily available.
Scorpion has changed the design of the S-4035 series motors, and is in the process of re-introducing them as the new SII-4035 motors. There are several design improvements that have been made to the motors to improve the quality and performance. These changes include:
1. New Stator material for higher efficiency and lower core losses.
2. Re-designed front housing (Similar to the SII-30mm motors) for improved cooling
3. Added a retaining lip on the back edge of the rotor can to prevent the magnets from pushing out under extreme stress
4. Added the option for a bolt-on prop adapter to the front end of the motor.
In addition to these changes, I also asked Scorpion to slightly lower the Kv value of all the different models of the motors to be more in line with what the customers are asking for. The changes in stator material on the motor naturally lowers the Kv of the motors, so instead of compensating for this by removing a turn on the motor to bring the Kv back up to the original value, I have asked them to let the Kv drop a bit. With these changes, the Kv values of the motors should change to the values shown below.
The S-4035-250 will have a new Kv value of about 210
The S-4035-330 will have a new Kv value of about 280
The S-4035-380 will have a new Kv value of about 350
The S-4035-460 will have a new Kv value of about 420
The guys flying F3A pattern will really like the new 210 Kv model, since it will provide even more power than the earlier model, and be a mechanically stronger motor as well. As soon as these come in, we will see that you get one right away. Right now, it looks like they will be available sometime in mid April. If you want to check back later I might have more up-to-date information at that time.
Thanks for your patience!
The Scorpion S-4035-210 motors were custom wound at the factory at my request for 4-5 different customers. This is not a normally stocked item, and the replacements also need to be custom made, so they are not readily available.
Scorpion has changed the design of the S-4035 series motors, and is in the process of re-introducing them as the new SII-4035 motors. There are several design improvements that have been made to the motors to improve the quality and performance. These changes include:
1. New Stator material for higher efficiency and lower core losses.
2. Re-designed front housing (Similar to the SII-30mm motors) for improved cooling
3. Added a retaining lip on the back edge of the rotor can to prevent the magnets from pushing out under extreme stress
4. Added the option for a bolt-on prop adapter to the front end of the motor.
In addition to these changes, I also asked Scorpion to slightly lower the Kv value of all the different models of the motors to be more in line with what the customers are asking for. The changes in stator material on the motor naturally lowers the Kv of the motors, so instead of compensating for this by removing a turn on the motor to bring the Kv back up to the original value, I have asked them to let the Kv drop a bit. With these changes, the Kv values of the motors should change to the values shown below.
The S-4035-250 will have a new Kv value of about 210
The S-4035-330 will have a new Kv value of about 280
The S-4035-380 will have a new Kv value of about 350
The S-4035-460 will have a new Kv value of about 420
The guys flying F3A pattern will really like the new 210 Kv model, since it will provide even more power than the earlier model, and be a mechanically stronger motor as well. As soon as these come in, we will see that you get one right away. Right now, it looks like they will be available sometime in mid April. If you want to check back later I might have more up-to-date information at that time.
Thanks for your patience!
03-10-2011 | 03:51 PM
#1463
My Feedback: (8)
RE: Sebart Wind 110
MAYBE mid-April??
It does sound good. Maybe enough of these motors have gone bad and they actually looked and listened, and made something that will work.
I like the lower KV, and like not having to switch or buy more batteries, not cut my plane, bla bla bla.
It does sound good. Maybe enough of these motors have gone bad and they actually looked and listened, and made something that will work.
I like the lower KV, and like not having to switch or buy more batteries, not cut my plane, bla bla bla.
03-10-2011 | 06:58 PM
#1464
RE: Sebart Wind 110
ORIGINAL: Alan W
Im not an EE, so I cant give a highly technical answer, but as stated - power through an ESC is simply on/off phasing ... less power is more ''off'' phases / more power is more ''on'' phases. From what I understand, the FET's (which do the switching) do not like to be in a state of mostly ''on'' under high current applications for long duration.
ORIGINAL: rjtw
Not sure I understand the logic here. I think what the poster is suggesting is re-setting the throttle such that full throttle on the stick would be seen by the motor as, say, 3/4 throttle,
Not sure I understand the logic here. I think what the poster is suggesting is re-setting the throttle such that full throttle on the stick would be seen by the motor as, say, 3/4 throttle,
I did some checking and asking because I dont like to be the source of mis-information or appear as a troll ...
... and what I found out is that what I stated about the speed controller not liking part-throttle high amp operation is true to a certain degree. If operated within design spec's for the ESC, this should not pose a problem, but if operating outside the specs, as in huge amp draw for very little time as in F5B (where sometimes amp draw is double of mfg spec but for only a few seconds ... think 200-250a on a 125a ESC) then it is highly adviseable NOT to use part throttle as the spikes associated with the FETs on/off phase will blow them up.
It was also advised that say, you have a 2000kw system but only ever fly at 1500kw, that you should prop down instead of running mostly part throttle or using end point adjustments. Less heat is needed to be disapated by the ESC under fully on state -full throttle- as opposed to switching constantly at say 75% throttle under a considerable amp load.
03-12-2011 | 06:20 AM
#1465
My Feedback: (8)
RE: Sebart Wind 110
Trying to gather some info about our motor issues. If you haven't already, please vote here:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10393675/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10393675/tm.htm
03-14-2011 | 01:47 PM
#1466
My Feedback: (8)
RE: Sebart Wind 110
Well, I guess my patience ran out. Just called Neu Motors and ordered a 1512/3.5D they had laying around for 30% off. 1475kV / 6.7 gearing comes to around 220kV at the prop. Guy I talked to runs a very similar motor at 10S and pushes to 100A, so 19x12 at 70A should kick some butt =)
03-15-2011 | 03:36 AM
#1467
Senior Member
RE: Sebart Wind 110
Huison ... will check my prop la ... think its an 18x10, will drop down to 18x8 and pray my motor will hold up, if not I will send it to you to assist.
I get what some of you mean about the end point and the FETs. Cutting down the end point may potentially cause them to overheat, just like the old car ESCs. Runs 'cool' when its fully opened.
I get what some of you mean about the end point and the FETs. Cutting down the end point may potentially cause them to overheat, just like the old car ESCs. Runs 'cool' when its fully opened.
03-15-2011 | 06:26 AM
#1468
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From: Riga, LATVIA
RE: Sebart Wind 110
Guys, I wrote to X-era motors, asking more about those motors.
Basically guy said me that they are heli motors and they are more efficient at high RPM, and told me that running at lower rpm will not produce reasonable power. The man is heli guy, so he could not give me prop data, but I thought that it might be good to share my findings.
Basically guy said me that they are heli motors and they are more efficient at high RPM, and told me that running at lower rpm will not produce reasonable power. The man is heli guy, so he could not give me prop data, but I thought that it might be good to share my findings.
03-15-2011 | 07:44 AM
#1469
My Feedback: (8)
RE: Sebart Wind 110
ORIGINAL: DronN
Guys, I wrote to X-era motors, asking more about those motors.
Basically guy said me that they are heli motors and they are more efficient at high RPM, and told me that running at lower rpm will not produce reasonable power. The man is heli guy, so he could not give me prop data, but I thought that it might be good to share my findings.
Guys, I wrote to X-era motors, asking more about those motors.
Basically guy said me that they are heli motors and they are more efficient at high RPM, and told me that running at lower rpm will not produce reasonable power. The man is heli guy, so he could not give me prop data, but I thought that it might be good to share my findings.
I think most things are more efficient at higher RPM, which is why the inrunners have slightly more efficiency. Pratt and Whitney are now putting geared turbofans on commercial airliners, and generally we are limited by heat and structural strength otherwise we'd (other jet engine manufacturers) all be running at higher RPM.
Hope this doesn't sound like I"m discounting the above statement, just conversing. I'm curious as to how the X-era motors would work, and probably would have bought one if I didn't impulsively buy a Neu on sale yesterday.
03-15-2011 | 08:06 AM
#1470
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From: Riga, LATVIA
RE: Sebart Wind 110
Yeah, it's the same with power- mostly it comes at higher rpm rather than torque, but I'd rather spin 18x12 on a hacker than 17x10 with xera on this plane, and knowing how fast it is.
I was asking if the guy at X-era could wind me 270-280kv version, he told me that it is not possible due to high demand on other motors.
I was asking if the guy at X-era could wind me 270-280kv version, he told me that it is not possible due to high demand on other motors.
03-18-2011 | 11:33 AM
#1471
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: RR1 Trenton,
ON, CANADA
RE: Sebart Wind 110
Good day everyone. I need some help with the installation of my hacker 50-16L. I thought I had it in correctly and still think I do, however, when I just ran it up for the first time the prop (with adapter and spinner) flew off. I had the prop mounted using the adapter that squeezes tight over the motor shaft when you tighten the prop. Is this the correct adapter. There is a rear mount adapter included with the motor but I can't seem to figure out how you would mount the motor using this rear adapter. Help would definitely be appreciated. Thanks
03-18-2011 | 02:46 PM
#1472
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From: VleutenUtrecht, NETHERLANDS
RE: Sebart Wind 110
You're using the right adaptor (the one that came with the engine) but just need to tighten it more.
Be aware, once you got it tightened right, you won't be able to get off the adaptor again easily, not even with the prop removed.
Be aware, once you got it tightened right, you won't be able to get off the adaptor again easily, not even with the prop removed.
03-18-2011 | 05:32 PM
#1475
My Feedback: (8)
RE: Sebart Wind 110
I just did a little spring cleaning on my plane, giving it a good once over. Have to comment that this plane has remained in very, very good condition - nothing is warped, covering has probably needed 5minutes of work during it's lifetime, and this plane was build in China, shipped overseas to Florida, then mailed to Vermont, then driven in the back of a pickup to New Jersey and out to Ohio.
Plane got pretty dusty on my dresser. Just cleaned it up, and it's glistening once again =)
I did remove the blue striping. I struggle to see the plane in the sky, hopefully this will help. May do a bit of a carbon fiber scheme if/when I get a carbon prop.
Plane got pretty dusty on my dresser. Just cleaned it up, and it's glistening once again =)
I did remove the blue striping. I struggle to see the plane in the sky, hopefully this will help. May do a bit of a carbon fiber scheme if/when I get a carbon prop.
