aginzu

Very sorry to hear about this. []

Even though I never tried it, I am not surprised that it didn't fly at all with the stock battery. I did manage to fly mine once with an 11.1V LiPO and had a similar result: it barely flew and was at the edge of a stall for the whole flight. I guess I was lucky that it didn't stall and crash like yours did, and I decided after that flight that I would not try it again until I did the brushless conversion.

After the brushless conversion it is a nice airplane and it's unfortunate that Guanli and Nitro Planes don't sell it for what it is, basically an ARF that needs radios, ESC, battery, and motors. If they would remove the radio, battery, ESC, and motors from the box and sell it as an ARF with servos pre-installed for the same $95 it would still be a good deal... actually better than what they do sell. What they sell is the worst combination, making it look like something that would fly in the stock configuration so that people try it and, likely, end up with a crash. You might try calling or e-mailing them and asking for your money back. They probably won't do it, but if it happens often enough they might get the hint that they have some unsatisfied customers.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry me too. I can't say nothing different from guys above. I never tried stock battery. It is still on the shelf. I wonder if after these months still holds the charge. If it does, I might convert it to power my cordless phone (it uses the same AAA cells). When I measured the current required by the engine it is way to much for AAA NiMh.

Stock plane (except radio) powered by 3s LiPo. It did barely fly. I wrote it on my post (#27) :

When I'm reading this now, I think I am just a good pilot I'm flying RC planes for last 8 years that including all kind of prototype experiments for last five years. I guess this experience helped me to not trash this plane on the first turn.

TWD

Thank you..

Thanks to you all for your help, and your concern! I did put it back together, and I am going to donate it to one of our young club members to see if they want to play around with it.

Thank you,

TWD

canwhitewolf

i GUess youre not going to try the prop jet converions

TWD

Hi canwhitewolf,

Yes! I think I will try to convert this plane to a prop job! I have the plane all glued back together, and you know! It still looks great and just looks like it wants to fly! The drawings from GWS looks like it might work, if I can remove the existing fans, & motors and convert them to props. I am going to try it!. I will keep you posted. Thanks for your input and PUSH to try this conversion. You know it might be fun!!

Thanks,

TWD

canwhitewolf

you may not need these but i ordered the following parts from http://www.allerc.com/

i think you could use tha same nacelles you have and remove the motors and fans turn the motor around, use a piece of bass wood or poplar or med or hard balsa or even hard foam ( maybe from the box the plane came from) and make those brackets that you see on the diagram for the mods inside the rear of the nacelle, all you really have to buy is the prop adapter and props i would think

(i ordered 2 sizes here because below as i didnt know which was the right size)

2 x ELECTRIC POWER HEAT SINK FOR 380/400 MOTOR - EHS-400 (EHS-400) = $4.00
2 x ELECTRIC POWER HEAT SINK FOR 370 MOTOR - EHS-300 (EHS-300) = $3.50
1 x GWS A10 EDF 55 NACELLE KIT - UNPAINTED (A10-FAS7-1) = $12.00

good luck if you try it

TWD

Thank you very much for all the info! Have you, or are you going to do this conversion yourself? What is your thoughts on the thrust angle in mounting the motors? With such small props this may not be a problem!? Well I have lots to consider and a lot of great information from you to think about.

Thanks again for the web site information and the time you took to list the parts that might be needed!

TWD

canwhitewolf

no thrust angle, mount in line same as rotor fans i would think, when i look at the gws nacelles here they look straght line

yes i am going to try this conversion some time as well, presently health isnt good so not doing much

shschon

My Feedback: (4)

Now there is Brushless version and good looking factory paint version. You do have to pay more than $95 but you get what you pay for:
http://www.bananahobby.com/1745.html

[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs8EV586ONU&eurl=http://www.bananahobby.com/1745.html]A-10 brushless RTF video[/link]

canwhitewolf

seems to fly well doesnt it

ww

aginzu

Wow, that's quite a price increase. The original is a better deal, except for how much work it is to remove the old motors. I would have preferred to have them sell the original without the motors installed. I added less than $100 to the $95 version to get it flying well.

I would also question the performance on a 15C 1800mah 11.1v battery. That's about 270 watts maximum which works, but is at the limit of what this battery can handle. I have been flying mine on 2000mah 25C. Maybe their choice of motor is more efficient with the lower current battery.

shschon

My Feedback: (4)

They have updated their website to add options.
First they have $30 discount for pre-order now.
Then they offer to make it PNP(Plug and Play, or Receiver Ready), meaning that you use your own TX and RX and you pay $25 less.

That arrives at a price of $164.9. It would be challenging to beat this price buying your own component, not to mention all the tedious conversion. Many people do not have the skill (well they may not even have the right tools to begin with) and know how to do conversion.

aginzu

$164.99 is much more like it

I agree that at that price it's as good or better of a deal than the original $95 setup. It will be interesting to see how well it actually performs with the motors and battery provided.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

If they could subtract Tx, and Rx from the original A-10 the price would be good too

It will be interesting indeed to see how BL version flies. What makes me nervous is that Banana guys print the same BS (or simply saying "lies") about this product that reminds me NitroPlanes stuff. Read it carefully and think for yourself:

"Full aerobatic characteristics; inside loops, outside loops, axial rolls, inverted flight, stall turns, hammerheads, and spins are possible" - is it the exact copy from the brushed version? It was a lie the last time, so is it not now? For 165 dollars you can find out

"Slow Speed Flying Capable, Good for Beginner" - And there will be another bunch of angry people who will end up with a pile of foam. A-10 is not a trainer for beginner. It does not fly hands-off. If does not correct itself. If you are a beginner RC pilot, better buy a high wing trainer plane - they are already invented and cost less money than A-10.

"Approximately 15 minutes flight time on each charge" - I think someone in that thread claimed 10 minutes with brushed setup. Was it the same guy? If you guys at Banana can't do simple math let me clear it for you. 15 minutes = 1/4 hour. That translates to 4C average discharge. With 1800mAh battery it is 7.2A. At 11V it is 80W. After reading 20 pages of this thread it is already clear, that you need more than that to fly this plane. If they put good BL setup in that plane, the battery will have o give at least 25A for a good flying. If battery doesn't fry it will last no more than 4 minutes - maybe 6 minutes if you cruise in circles.

"Flying Weight: 450g (16 oz)" - guys at Banana must weight their planes on the Moon. Do me a favor Banana guys, go buy yourself a good scale because the junk you are using to weight your plane is useless. This plane with this battery will weight 20+ oz. Just by calculating all electronics and hardware that goes into that plane - I got result 15+oz. The airframe weights more than 1oz.

So please don't believe what you read especially, when it was written by some guys, who already lied many times.

On the final note, I just watched the video. They are quite good in "bite and switch" deal. The video transcription shows two 30A ESC, the website shows 18A. And if you did not notice this, the guy on the video flew 2.4GHz - I bet you will not get it in the box.

TWD

Mr. RysiuM,

Do appreciate all your input! "Well Stated" I got burned by this last A-10 concept. I will certainly take your advice, and "Buyer Beware"! I sure do have a lot to learn about these ELECTRICS! I am learning a lot from people like you. Keep the knowledge flowing!

TWD

aginzu

Richard's warning is right on...

Parts of this description are obviously false. You can't do spins and stall turns without a rudder. Furthermore, if you look at the video there are lots of rolls but NO complete loops. One cut has the airplane coming out of what looks like a loop but you can't see how it entered the maneuver. It could be coming out of an inverted dive entered from a roll. The closest thing is a 1/2 loop to inverted flight. The airplane will probably loop but just barely. An outside loop is very unlikely. Mine, with about 50% more power, can do a loop from level flight but loses speed pretty quickly when it goes vertical making the loop acceptable but relatively small. I haven't tried an outside loop yet.

It's probably not a bad airplane, but take the ad copy with a grain of salt.

tony51

Today for the first time I tried out the power system on my A-10. It was an on-the-ground static test with the plane's movement blocked. The results are very disappointing.

The battery was freshly charged, and my DVM showed over 10 volts immediately before the test. The DVM is pretty accurate, by the way. I installed the battery and ran the engines for less than two minutes before they began to slow and then just stopped running. I took the battery back out and found that it was very hot and that it still had about 9.4 volts. During the test I had varied the throttle up and down a few times, and overall I that overall the average throttle setting would have been roughly 75% of max.

My questions are: why did the motors stop when the battery still had almost a full charge and why was it so much hotter than the ambient air? And could a bad ESC be the problem?

One other thing. At mid throttle the noise from the motor/fan units seemed much louder, and the vibration much more, than at either lower or higher throttle.

If anyone can suggest what's wrong or what I should try next, please tell me.

shschon

My Feedback: (4)

Do NOT static test EDF for extended periods of time you would likely damage your components due to overheating. It is different in real flight as you have much better airflow over motor, ESC, battery,...etc in real flight so the components can run longer without issue. Static test should only be a few seconds just long enough to get a stable reading.

If you are using the stock NiMH battery that battery is most likely overloaded so the voltage under load(when the motor is running) may drop below cut-off voltage quickly so the ESC cut off the power. It could also because the ESC is overloaded/overheated so it shut down for that reason.

The vibration you see means that the fan is NOT balanced and centered perfectly so that it will have certain resonance frequency which cause severe vibration at certain RPM. You need to balance and center the fan unit which is a rather tedious task and you need a balancer to do that.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

In this plane this is true mostly for motors. ESC, and battery is inside the closed foam box that does not let any breeze go through.

Measuring the voltage (after run) without load does not give any good reading. It is important what is the voltage under the load (when engines are running). Stock setup (excluding 8xAAA NiMh batteries) can survive few minutes of run at the time (I mean ESC and brushed motors) as long as yo keep voltage around 10V or less. Higher voltage will put motors and ESC at high risk.

I found stock rotors are not balanced at all. I think thy are not centered well too. That makes the ugly low pitch sound - quite different than EDF should make. You can hear it even on the Bananahobby old video. I'm afraid it makes impossible to balance them for smooth running. I was surprised what big difference it made when I changed rotors to GWS ones.

It is nothing wrong with your plane. I mean - nothing other that we already know. You got 95 dollars ARF ready for your next investment. I think the only way to make you happy with this plane is start your conversion to BL now. Please, don't bother trying to fly it with the stock setup. It will not fly - it may glide, but that's about it.

tony51

shschon, thanks for the reply. I'll recharge the battery and try a simple test flight.

I'm wondering too how this plane gets airflow over the battery and esc even when in flight, since those parts are fully enclosed in the fuselage and there are no visible air intake or vent openings.

From what I have read in this forum I'll probably replace some components anyway, in the future.

I have a good prop balancer and probably I can use that to balance the fans.

tony51

RysiuM, which GWS fans did you buy and where did you get them? Thanks

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

BPHobbies have them. [link=http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=B1098405]http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=B1098405[/link]. Make sure you buy the set: Ducted Fan Rotor + Impeller Hub Set . Looks like the old style (which is OK) is still in stock. If you don't buy from BPHobbies, you can buy the whole EDF-55 unit from Hobby City for 12+ dollars.


I'm waiting for my experiment order from Hobby City: battery ZIPPY-H 1450mAh 3S1P 30-40C Lipoly Pack. It weights the same as my A123, costs the same and should be good for 30A at 10V. It may be better combination for this plane (if it does not blow up).

shschon

My Feedback: (4)

I would recommend against flying the plane in this shady condition. You may not have realized how dangerous a unbalanced and off-centered fan can be. There is good chance a bad fan can literally explode midair and you will lose everything onboard.

It is easy to increase airflow over ESC and battery just cut out inlet and outlet venting holes yourself. It is very easy it is made of foam, not steel. A sharp hobby knife or even a bamboo skewer can easily open the holes you need. These cooling holes are not easily noticeable in flight but greatly increase flight safety and the longevity of your ESC and battery. You may even see some performance boost with better cooling.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I would add: Don't fly it in stock configuration at all. Even if you replaced battery with 3sLiPo unless your are good pilot comfortable with very, very underpowered plane. This thing flies full throttle like C-152 at 1800rpm. The first mistake and it will tip stall and spin. It would be a waste - as it is nice looking plane.

aginzu

I second this opinion. I was able to barely get it to fly around the pattern with stock motors and a 3S LiPO. If you are an experienced pilot there is no advantage to doing it other than proving to yourself that you can. If you are inexperienced you will probably crash.

It's just not worth it. As Richard said, spend the few extra dollars to convert it to brushless. It's a very nice plane once the conversion is done.