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I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

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I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Old 03-16-2003, 03:30 AM
  #51  
bn120
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

kris I was not calling anyone a liar it is just that alot of people will post rpm data they have heard of and not even have the motor to quote real #'s, this is all I was trying to prevent.I did buy the motor for this reason and all I have into it is 10.00 saw 120.00 ignition and a few bucks for aluminum and a piece of phenolic material so I have a engine that cost me about 135.00 and the only tools I have is a standard bench grinder with a concrete cutting wheel and I use my father inlaws lathe that is about 100 years old but it works, the only reason I started this thread was because alot of people tell me that a conversion are to heavy and under powered this really had nothing to do with cost I just wanted to prove it could be done and I think that even if I am a couple of hundred shy of the others well I am a tad lighter to but this does not really mater to me is what does mater is when people say they are to heavy and underpowered I can say no they are not .

ps look what I can do


Darin
Old 03-16-2003, 04:53 AM
  #52  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

I bet those big dollar engines makers cry when they read how the average person can come up with a engine thiat is close to same power and weight of there super engines and is about 1/3 price. Great for competion and new ideas. Capt,n
Old 03-16-2003, 05:54 AM
  #53  
Thomas Williams
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

You hit the nail on the head and as you can tell Kris is a salesman.
Old 03-16-2003, 06:05 AM
  #54  
bn120
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Oh and as far as my rpm difference of 900 rpm with only a 2"pitch difference is because one is a pro zinger really skinny compared to to the menz.

I refuse to get in a pi$$in match with anyone I just wanted to show what can be done .go buy a DA and leave us tinkerers to ourself.

In my opinion I was able to acomplish exactly what I wanted.

did I make a engine in comparable weight yes

did I make a engine comparable in power yes

did I save a grip full of money yes

is my wife upset at me for spending
so much time on this project yes


Darin
Old 03-16-2003, 06:09 AM
  #55  
bn120
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

sorry for posting back to back but one thing I forgot to mention is this old engine is 20 years old and not far off in #'s so tell me how far technology has come in rc gas engines.I dont think very far.

\
Darin
Old 03-16-2003, 06:41 AM
  #56  
Thomas Williams
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

According to superJ who I think is a very intelligent man and knows what he is talking about when it comes to engines you are right.The technology has not made alot of progress.
Old 03-16-2003, 09:24 AM
  #57  
Daniel Ramsey
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Something tells me it will as soon as the next generation of chainsaws/weedies are worked upon, look at the innovatve combustion chamber on the Stihl, or better yet an untapped avenue of fuel management.....electronic fuel injection.....taken fron say a late model auto all it basically is is pulse frequency, a pump, and regulator be it a TBI or ported injection.
Imagine ported injection on a 4 cylinder engine, 4 cycle and all. And if I had my way I would work on a mini roots blower and make a forced induction.
I know Saito had a supercharger or was it somebody else? was it worth the extra boost, anyone know?
Old 03-16-2003, 12:34 PM
  #58  
Flypaper 2
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

I would be carefull about buying a concrete cutsaw unless you can check the compression first. The concrete dust is great grinding compound and even dual filters don't stop it completely. one of my customers is a bricklayer. A saw lasts him about 1 season before the chrome is worn right through the cyl into the aluminum wall. the chrome is about .010 thick. Iwouldn't buy it unseen. Free advice is cheap but sometimes works!!
Old 03-16-2003, 12:45 PM
  #59  
Kris^
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

I want to lay a little challenge out there for the "Entrepreneurs" in RC. .

Do these conversions for a living, be competitive in terms of # of units sold, weight, and power when compared to DA, BME, Taurus and Brison. Then, feed your family, pay taxes, and make an acceptable profit on your work, plus satisfy fickle customers who have little understanding of what you go through every day to satisfy their desires.

A few restrictions will, of course, apply. You are not allowed to trash the competition, you can't make any excuses if your product is not quite as "Good" as the perceived competitions, and when someone runs lean/prop strikes/overheats/crashes the motor you must be understanding and nice about it and not charge them an arm and a leg for repairs. And, most importantly, you must answer the phone and do a lot of problem solving and ego-soothing to irate or upset customers on a daily basis.

Nothing against BN120 and his 56 cc motor. It's light, makes okay power, and is cheap (for him) to do this one time. Add in about $15/hour for the time he spent making parts and re-machining the motor for a "real world" cost, though, then try to put 200/month out the door, and you will quickly see why "Manufacturers" charge a bit of money so they can make ends meet.

As for who does or does not know what they are talking about? (or is/is not an "expert") that is open to debate. A lot of people on these forums can read from a book or make claims (yup, even me, if I was so inclined) that do not really address the reality of what is required for our model engines (Lightweight first of all, power secondary, and tractability tertiary considerations) to me a marketable and sell-able commodity. In the real world (the nose of a model plane) throwing the advantages of water-cooled motorcycle/Kart engines into the mix will not work, because of the tremendous performance improvements inherent with water cooling (leaning of mixture, steady temperatures, more radical porting, more BMEP). IF we wanted to go to 15-18 lbs water cooled motors that required radiators and support equipment, and thus weigh our planes down, there would be an alternative int hat direction. But, since air-cooled motors are the only way to get the weight and complexity down to manageable levels, there probably is not going to be a shift into the water cooled direction. So, we can kiss Kart/motorcycle motor technology goodbye. We can also kiss 10-12,000 rpm power bands and huge tuned pipes goodbye too. . one from the propeller perspective, and the other from weight and packaging considerations. People who "know" realize this, and laugh a bit when someone brings up the idea for the umpteenth time. Personally I really don't want a radiator, hoses, water, heavy motor and 3 foot tuned pipe in my plane, no matter how much power it makes on the top end. It's just not practical.

This thread is "Lightest 56cc", which infers, especially considering other claims made in other threads, that not only would the motor weigh less than a current BME/DA/Taurus/Brison 50cc sized motor, it would also make more power. At 12-13% larger displacement, this seems to be a not unrealistic expectation. True, the motor is inexpensive, for a one of a kind. . production models would be a LOT more expensive. True, it's lighter by a few ounces than the motors its compared to. But no, it's not as powerful given established performance numbers from the "big 4" in the 50cc category. And then, it's not marketable to the general public since no one is going to make it available.

In baseball parlance, I call that two balls, two strikes. If the power had been better, or even just on par, I'd say it was a home run (people are going to start throwing numbers around again. . . .) sure, its a lightweight, inexpensive motor. . probably will power a plane pretty well. Make more and sell them, and lets see it on the open market and then things might get exciting in the 50-60 cc motor class in RC. I'd really like to see how far it went, because the more LIGHTER powerplants we have out there, the better for US as consumers, and the more receptive kit/arf makers will be to redesigning their planes to reflect evolution in this direction.

BN120. . congrats on your effort. . It's not a DA or other mass-marketed engine, but I'm sure it will fly your plane just fine. I BET you could take a 50cc Echo and beat BME at it's own game, if you wanted to. Might be a direction to look at. Personally, I was VERY disappointed (read that PO'd)that the 56cc did not beat the #s of a DA50 (be realistic here, now). The 3w/DA 100's have been a performance target for quite a while. . I really like matching their rpm figures with my lowly BME's on pipes, then beating them on total weight. . .it kind of shows the direction this hobby should be going, and YOUR effort shows what the average person, with a little work, can accomplish. Unfortunately, a LOT of us just don't have the time, so we reach into our pockets to buy what we perceive as the best value for our hard-earned cash. Unfortunately. . that results in "the herd" thinking that a $500+ 50 or $1150 100 is acceptable. It's not, but it's also what we are stuck with.
Old 03-16-2003, 12:55 PM
  #60  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

While I love seeing people do things like this, for most it is cheaper to buy the BME, DA, or ZDZ. While you may be able to get the engine for $10.00, the metal lathe will set you back the balance. Then you have the tools, the grinder etc.

I think Kris already mentioned that stuff, and got jumped on, but it is a real cost to consider.

If I had the tools...or access to them...I would probably do this modification also!
Old 03-16-2003, 01:03 PM
  #61  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

We just do it for the fun and challenge of it.
Old 03-16-2003, 01:06 PM
  #62  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Originally posted by Flypaper
We just do it for the fun and challenge of it.

Exactly!

I wish I had the tools so I could have fun also!!
Old 03-16-2003, 01:34 PM
  #63  
ec121
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

This is a hobby/sport. My definition of a hobby is: An activity one participates in without expectation of any return on investment except the pleasure of doing it. If we are worried about the R-O-I, then we need to find another activity. Hobby money is funded from disposable income after(sometimes) the bills are paid. The pleasure of achievement is enough. The ingenuity involved in solving the problem is reward enough. If something doesn't come out exactly like a production model, who cares. If the conversion works at all, it is a success for the converter.
Old 03-16-2003, 03:03 PM
  #64  
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Default engines

ec121: Your reply/post is right on the mark. Some of the other guys get on here and try and tell the rest of us what we will enjoy. Hey some of us enjoy helping others any way we can...and most of us cannot afford to crash a real expensive engine. Now as to the Guy who said air cooled motorcycle engines are on the way out. On the smaller cc engines there will always be air cooled motorcycle engines. You can take that to the bank. You will probably see tunned exhaust made super light with carbon-fiber technology. Also smaller like the magic muffler. The reason is simply why.....we all want it to happen. Some person who is not even a engineer may help develop those very same ideas. Keep up the good ideas coming.....its good for us all. Captinjohn
Old 03-16-2003, 03:16 PM
  #65  
LORD_RC
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

It kills me when people factor in " the time it takes to build/do it yourself" as an expense when A. its fun! and B. does it not take time to earn the money to buy that premade engine , arf etc. ?
It comes down to how do you want to spend your time and money, it all costs. Lets just all have FUN!
Old 03-16-2003, 04:09 PM
  #66  
helicool
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Default Hmmmm

I think Kris works for DA, and is worried about his job security. :drowning:
Old 03-16-2003, 04:21 PM
  #67  
Kris^
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Uh. .yeah. . right. . that's it . . I work for DA and am worried about my next pay raise because of the loss of Market Share from home-builders. . .

And my other job is working for BME. . as you can imagine, the back and forth to work commute is murder!!!
Old 03-16-2003, 06:21 PM
  #68  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Lord RC is right.

You can't consider a dollar amount for your time spent working on your hobby. It's a hobby-- and we all enjoy it. You don't get paid for that.

You get paid at work-- where you make your living and your money to buy stuff for the hobby. You get paid at work because its your job and for may of us-- work sucks.

Spending a gazzillion hours on a hobby is just part of the hobby-- you simply don't get paid for it.

As for the conversions. I've done one so far. I'll probably get it running today or sometime this week. It's a Poulan 54cc engine. I've got $230 in it. Thats with an Electronic Ign. from Ralph at RCIGN. I paid Ken Lambert a few bucks to make some parts for me. I paid a guy $20 to do the final machine work on the case after I hit it with a band saw. So-- you see-- you can do a conversion for not very much money; even if you don't have your own mill and lathe.

I had to pay for machine work on the case. I paid Ken for machine work on my magneto and to make a prop hub, carb adaptor and hall sensor bracket. I paid RcIgn money for an elec. ign. system.

Total cost for EVERYTHING= $230

Unfortuneately-- I didn't pay myself a dime. Last time I do a conversion. There's just no money in it for me. UNLEEESSSSSS................................ you consider the cost savings. According to Kris^: a BME 50 will put you back about $500. Soooooooo...........I guess I saved $270.

$500(BME 50) - $230(Poulan 54)== $270

I guess I just made a coool $270 and got a 50cc gasser for less than 1/2 the price of a BME.

Not too shabby.
Old 03-16-2003, 08:36 PM
  #69  
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Default CONGRATS bn120

I have read all the posts and to tell you the truth I am strictly a 3W man,but after all this all I can say is BRAVO!!! great job bn120 It's all GOOD!!!
If you notice on other threads with some of these guys it's just alot easier to downgrade someone else rather than agree or applaud a person for their views.It's more of a challenge to go out of your way disputing others beliefs versus your own rather than doing a little research and changing your opinions.I have made mistakes on things I have said in the past but have been more than willing to eat CROW and retract my statements and state the true facts but some here are unwilling to change their ways regardless of information put before them.
I applaud you whole heartedly for your accoplishments in doing something manufacturers have been competing over doing for years!!!! Keep up the good work!! and good luck with the next batch of motors!! My Signature says it all !!!!!!!
Old 03-16-2003, 08:52 PM
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bn120
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

kris I looked at your profile and was wondering do you even own a da or bme ?you posted in excess of rpm #'s which leads me to belive you don't even have one.I want to say so many thing to people like you but I wont because this was to be a informative thread for people looking for power and weight of current 50cc gassers on a budget that wanted to build there own engine,so please stop bothcing this thread before the moderator closes it.the fact or the mater is alot of people here will get alot of info on this thread but you botching it all up makes it difficult for them to read through all of your posts.it has gotten way off track, we have all heard of the pros and cons so lets put this to rest and try to keep to subject CONVERSIONS tot COMPARISON

Darin
Old 03-16-2003, 08:57 PM
  #71  
Buz^
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Default OH NO!

I hope Kris only post's his short list
Old 03-16-2003, 08:57 PM
  #72  
bn120
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

I feel that this thread has said what needs to be heard, so I have asked the moderator to close the thread.

Darin
Old 03-16-2003, 09:06 PM
  #73  
gjestico
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

This thread was originally started about a home-brew lightweight engine. Some of us modelers like to tinker and I really admire this guys handiwork.
The question of whether it is the equal of available production engines seems to have raised the Ire of some posters. Please, Just the facts, Ma'am.
Old 10-09-2004, 05:04 AM
  #74  
phattalon
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Default RE: I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

I am new to giant scale flying. I am building the greatplanes 1/3 scale extra 330L right now. It calls for a gas motor 50cc-85cc. I also do not like to under power my aircraft. I am looking for a cheap gas motor, or a cheap saw motor to convert. I have never done this so i do not know where to start. What brand engine to go with. Where to get the conversion kits, mounts or even possibly a lighter ignition. If somone could give me some advice on this i would greatly appreciate it. Also if anyone has any info on how well this plane flys, and what size engine will work best please include that. Thank you for your guys help.
Old 10-09-2004, 06:34 AM
  #75  
PlaneKrazee
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Default RE: I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

You should look in the conversions forum. There is much more info their. This thread would normally be in that forum. I guess hobbys hasn't found it yet.

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