Lanolin's auto ignition temperature is high at ~450C so that isn't causing the combustion. I wonder what else is in there?

Hi Greg. I do not know the ingredients but have had a similar result on WD40 - but not so pronounced or repeatable. Only common theme was that all engines had a decent fit of the piston to the liner.

Cu Later * Danny M *

Interesting guys my guess its thr propellant in the can which flashs off (evaporates) yup it happened to me with WD40 spray too martin

Dieseldan,you should be true
Lanolin is not an oil, but a wax, very different from triglycerides composing common vegetable oils. The firing of so called "cleaners, derustes, unblockers "comes from the solvent invariably composing them. This solvent is needed in order to lower the superficial tension of the "oil" allowing it to penetrate in remote parts of mechanisms.
Ugo

Intresting on the inox site there is a chap in Orlando Fl that sells the stuff they may have a similar setup overseas to Amsoil/ being a WD 40 addict use on everything for years
nya give him a ring martin I recentally got Amsoil cetane booster from the local amsoil rep it is octyl NITRATE listed as the ingrediant on the bottle martin

Cup viscometers measurements are inherently independent from the specific weight of the fluid under measurement. In fact they directly measure K.I.N.E.M.A.T.I.C VISCOSITY through the flowing time.

This quantity is so universally used that often kinematic viscosity is directly expressed in "seconds" and this "viscosity" is often used for oils. BTW, kinematic viscosity is the only "viscosity" that has been usefully modeled in linear way versus temperature with appropriate charts.


Most of this post was removed by moderator . . . .

Greg,
as you can see I wrote "in principle". In practice some diluition with kerosene may happen also with four strokes, since the liner, particularly at the end of aspiration phase, shows ample surfaces at temperatures lower than the final distillation temperature of kerosene, and some kerosene goes also in the crankase mixed with oil, lowering its viscosity.
Maybe you know this, but a problem arising with commercial oil additives comes from the need of using some kerosene inside for keeping ingredients in solution. This may cause damages to the liner due to the tendency of not evaporating, wetting the surfaces and lowering the viscosity of the oil.
I have not your good memory, but were not you complaining of a broken ball bearing owing not to have used a shielded one?
Ugo

I am tired of your comments... you are amateur only, because you have changed your mind a lot of times, do not have knowledge of the facts of oils!!! Took a lot of time wrong as here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_54..._1/key_/tm.htm cause language ate difference for same oil to example and other more early comments here.

I have had no failures of bearings. Yes, I'm aware of kerosene in additives and even in two stroke oils. Many of the two stroke oils on the market contain a fair amount of kerosene. And unfortunately I don't know if they rate viscosity before or after the addition of kerosene. I remember one particular Castrol product I purchased last year prior to inspecting the data sheet. That just means that you need to be aware of what you are using.

Ugo, a long time ago you said that the etherless fuel would damage a four stoke engine. A few posts back you said none of the dilution issues exist in a model four stroke. Now you have changed your mind, again. Can we just agree that we really aren't sure of the lubrication situation in a four stroke? So far, my conversions seem to work. I hope to get much more flying time in next month and report my findings. Further, we haven't really defined the lubrication needs for model engines two or four stroke

Did you see that Henry Nelson was running 5% synthetic lubricant in F2C diesels back in the 80's? Why did this engine survive? Treven recently posted his findings of the OS .40 LA two stroke and it seems to be fine. Theoretically, the lubrication situation seems awful, reality seems a bit different.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/dy...ity-d_412.html

Kinematic Viscosity
is the ratio of absolute or dynamic viscosity to density - a quantity in which no force is involved. Kinematic viscosity can be obtained by dividing the absolute viscosity of a fluid with its mass density as
ν = μ / � (2)
where
ν = kinematic viscosity
μ = absolute or dynamic viscosity
� = density
In the SI-system the theoretical unit is m2/s or commonly used Stoke (St) where
• 1 St = 10-4 m2/s
Since the Stoke is an unpractical large unit, it is usual divided by 100 to give the unit called Centistokes (cSt) where
• 1 St = 100 cSt
• 1 cSt = 10-6 m2/s
Since the specific gravity of water at 68.4oF (20.2oC) is almost one - 1, the kinematic viscosity of water at 68.4oF is for all practical purposes 1.0 cSt.

Greg, sorry but I had prepared the reply to you, but it went lost and I have to rewrite it. Now it is late here and I have to go to sleep, tomorrow I will reply.
Ugo

Hi Peter. I'm using Inox MX-3 in the 300g aerosol (about $10Au). I looked the the MSDS and it notes that the aerosol is highly flammable until the propellant has evaporated. Later on it says that the propellant is 30% of the mix (24% Butane, 6% Propane).

I also noted that it's flash point is 182°C

http://electus.vividcluster.global.n...ded/NA1024.pdf

So it appears that blokes who attributed the propellant as the culprit appear to be correct.

But then does this mean that this product could be used as a starting aid for etherless fuels?

I still use it anyhow for it's water displacing and protective properties as it does not dry out or runoff vertical surfaces.

Cu Later * Danny M *

Where are autoignition? Autoignition are important for our model dieselengines to ignite fuelmix generated by heat of compression at low temperature when we are handstarting the engine. Ether has autoignition at 188 degree. Flashpoint are not important.

wy8e,
it looks as if you have dropped some words in your post.
In other terms, being the viscosity of water, expressed in MKS units, � = .001 Pa*s (about) at 20°C and being its density 1000 Kg/m*3 (about) it follows that kinematic viscosity, expressed as ν = μ / � is equal to 0.001/1000, or 10-6 in MKS units, that corresponds to 1 centistokes.
Ugo

Greg, some differences ever arise between theory and practice.
Here this means that in case of a four strokes open crankase fueled vith kerosene trough a carburetor, kerosene cannot evaporate entirely in the combustion chamber. Furthemore, during aspiration its temperature it NEVER can reach the boiling temperature, so the oil remains embedded in kero.
In fact for evaporating in this cycle it should require a MASS heath transfer of such an entity sincerely difficult of conceive. Mix is adiabathically heaten until burning only during the compression phase, but this does not involve any mass heath transfer. So for the entire aspiration phase you are washing your liner with something tha is so viscous as water.
Note that if you dilute 1 part of oil ,say of 200 centistokes, in 9 parts of kerosene, say at 40°C , the resulting viscosity of your mixture will be 3 (THREE) centistokes, a real mess, I guess. And the viscosity lowers until kero starts "boiling" ,that is 180°C.
Passing to two strokes the situation is worse. Its rotating parts are ever under the boiling temperature of kero. This means that if you use the usual 1/3 mix you will have your oil diluted at 50%, this means that your original (mineral) oil, say of 200 centistokes works at a viscosity as reduced as 12 (TWELVE) centistokes, barely sufficient to run bearings.
But if you use no ether mix substituting ether with kerosene , your actual viscosity will go down to less than 7 (SEVEN) centistokes. Draw your conclusions.
As for those team racers going down to less than 10%oil, remember, NONE IS RUNNING WITOUT ETHER, on the contrary, they often use as much as 40% of it, so the useful viscosity is not impaired.
As for Treven, if he runs on his mix No1 at http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6053759/tm.htm, he works with 22% of its "oil" on which I cannot argue.
Ugo

Just made up another batch of 10% ether fuel mix today.

I used both mineral oil and modified olive oil in the fuel mix in equal amounts.

I have no way of measuring viscosity but.......

The modified olive oil was such a beautiful golden colour when poured out, worth using just for the pleasure of seeing the golden liquid going into the fuel mix. It was poured out immediately after doing the mineral oil and I was sure that the modified olive oil was somewhat higher viscosity than the good quality car engine oil I use.

Something that looks as nice as that clear, golden olive oil MUST be good for my engines !

Sloper,
My experience tells no effective change in olive oil viscosity can reached by the so called "modifying", since its viscosity could not be enhanced by it. Slight change in appearance may happen, but it does not matter. This is confirmed by some study I made on oils . The olive oil is so OK exactly for the same reasons it does not change by such a mild treatment as suggested modifying. This is due to its high oleic content. Almost unmodifiable, it stands well against all bombasted synthetics, and appears really a promise. Clean, ecological, cheap, obtainable everywhere. I guess its promising future is mixed with castor, and not mineral oil.
By varying the proportions you can have the right viscosity you "feel" good for your mix. I am studying the formula, and I will report measurements and observations on oil thread.
If you want you can send me a sample of modified oil, I will test it. Take into account at last 250cc are needed.
If you want to compare directly by yourself possible changes in your modified oil, you can make this simple test. Keep a small container with appropriate free entrance of air, such as a c/l tank, fill it with oil and let it drain freely. If it flows straightly out, measure the time needed to be empty, than compare. I guess times will not change. Take care, for this test it is necessary to obtain a continuous flow from the tank, no dropping. If it drops it is necessary to find a container with a larger output until dropping is avoided.
Pls take me informed.
ugo

Hi diesel lovers.

A recurring theme in these threads is the insolubility of castor oil in kerosene. (By castor oil I am referring to my available favourite; "Castrol M". The kerosine is Oz "Diggers" brand ).

Many years ago I had the requirement to mix petrol with castor oil for use in a spark ignition engine, which had the same result as with castor and kerosene. Rapid separation and no mixing.

This problem was solved by the addition of a tiny amount of an additive which resulted in a mixture of petrol and castor oil that ran the sparkie very well. (Arden .199)

Yesterday I was servicing the spark engine and remembered this additive. So as yer do, I then I mixed 10ml of kerosene with 10ml of Castrol M and shook the mix. It separated quickly. As expected.

Then for the moment of truth. I added 200mg of the additive (<1%) and shook the jar. 20 hours later no signs of separation so I think that I'm on the right track.

Oh yeah, the additive [8D]

LECITHIN - Available from my pharmacy in a jar of 64x200mg capsules. It is a soya bean derivative that helps to emulsify fats in the digestive system so I hope that it is non toxic [:'(]

I suspect that the lecithin has emulsified the castor with the kerosene just as it did with petrol.

I have not tried this 'emulsion' in a diesel fuel mixture yet, pressure of work and other activities push this one onto the backburner unfortunately. But then I have gained much pleasure from reading about the experiments of you all so I offer this discovery for the interested with the request that you share your results with this forum.

Regards from down under.

Cu Later * Danny M *

Danny Maslowicz

ps, Motorboy. A friend gave me a few bottles of Gilde Aquavit, after the effect on me I think that it would make a suitable fuel for most engines ;-)

Hi, the Aquavit has alcohol between 37% and 40%, can have sugar added who are not good for model engines. When sugar are heated, it will develop to caramel. Before in Norway children added sugar in fueltank to Nazi vehicles under second war. The engine stopped cause caramel between piston and cylinder when the engine was warm.

Hi Ugo,
Thanks for the comments. I will stick with modifying the olive oil for now.... it might not do much but it makes me feel better. If, as you suspect, the olive oil is just as good when used without modifying then that will save me a job later

Olive oil mixed with castor (to improve the "safety" margin) is perfectly O.K. When testing my engines I found that there was some benefit from using both mineral and modified olive oil. The two combined gave better throttle response without any delay.

I do reckon that the olive oil is looking like being a good lubricant or even a substitute for castor.

My engines seem to like it and I must admit to being fond of (unmodified) olive oil myself

Hi Danny,
Thank you for your comments. I feel a further spell of experimenting coming on !

By means of much messing about I have come up with a couple of diesel fuel mixes that serve my purpose..... run well, and are a lot cheaper than the 30% ether content commercial mixes.

First mix used 15% ether content,this ran well and I have now started using 10% ether fuel.

I found, the hard way, that there was a minimum ether content for a given percentage of castor oil.

The 15% ether mix I made used only castor as the lubricant. The castor oil content was 25% and this needed the 15% ether, any less and the mix would go cloudy and start throwing a deposit.

My current fuel mix is running very well but I will have to give your "magic" additive a go just so I can see what happens [X(]

That is exactly my thought. Get away with less than 15% ether.

I checked the jar this morning and it is still a homogeneous mix,. It would be interesting to determine how much lecithin is actually required. As my capsules are fixed at 200mg I shall try adding a bit more kero and castor to the jar gradually.

Now I am researching how to remove water from methanol (freezing does not work), but the biodiesel manufacturers have given me an idea. It's only for a bet at the local r/c club [>:]

Cu Later * Danny M *

Danni,
why not to report your experiences on the tread on fuels and additives?
A remark, lecithin contais phosphor, and could lead to gumming, did you experience it?


Sloper,
I guess the better trotthling when adding mineral in place of castor is deriving from the percentages you use. When idling, the higher viscosity of castor has its effect. Why not to reduce the castor percentage in place of substituting it?
Castor has exclusive hydroxyl bonds that neither olive nor mineral have. This means that is far more superior to both for extreme stresses, both mechanical than termal.
I suggest to go simply reducing its percentage progressively down till to one fifth of the oil content, that is 80 olive, 20 castor, not less. No mineral.
Pls keep informed if you try, and report the resulting choose on fuels etc.

Hi Ugo. Good idea, I posted a copy as you suggested.

As for the gumming, so far I have not used this substance in a diesel engine. I have used a mix of Castrol M and petrol with lecithin for over 10 years in a few spark ignition engines with no problems though.

Cu Later * Danny M *

I finally managed to slog my way through all 45 pages of this thread. All things considered, Slope-Soarer's mod-olive/mineral mix seems to promise the performance I'm looking for since I also practice small engine powered soaring. For those in North America, I discovered that Sam's club has a house brand extra virgin olive oil in a 3 liter jug for less than $18.00 while Walmart has 6 oz bottles of glycerine (in the first aid section of the pharmacy) for less than $3.00. I couldn't come up with a semi-synthetic 10W-40 for diesels, but Shell's Rotella 10W-40 (for diesels) looked good enough to me. Seeing as how Chevy43's diesel oil works after rumbling around in the innards of a road vehicle's engine, I'm not concerned about the Rotella.

About 2 years ago, someone on one of the diesel forums warned me that my dieselized OS .40 fp would break down if I used motor oil as lube instead of the sacred castor oil. I took Jen's advice instead and so, about a gallon and a half later, this engine (that was well used when I converted it) is still going strong. I will admit to needing to shovel out the carbon now and then, but I'm guessing that olive oil in the mix will cure that problem.

Thanks to all of you out there who ignored conventional wisdom and experimented to find out what actually worked.