Saito FG-60R3
02-19-2016, 10:40 AM
#454
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02-21-2016, 01:10 AM
#456
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dubai, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Yeah, my engine ran upside down during the break in process, in order to get the 'lower' cylinders hot enough at the rich setting. All ran fine! The only thing I would be careful of is whether the keleo collector ring would mount upside down, I don't think it would....and you really DO want a collector ring, it makes this engine sooo much better from a sound point of view.
02-21-2016, 01:41 AM
#457
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Berlin, GERMANY
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yesterday I got 6 more flights and made some observations. First 3 flights I had the cowling off. I leaned out the low end a little assuming that when cowl is on it will get richer. Everything went well with the cowling on also. No sign of overheating and engine running decent with good acceleration. When I came back home, I checked what I have in low end and it looks like 5-1/2 turns. The question is whether this is too lean. I also noticed that after leaning out, there was much less oil mess coming out of breather nipple, so, I am a little insecure now whether I am running too lean.
Other observation is about plumbing. I recently changed to Y connector for fuel plumbing. This means that fueling is done directly between tank and carb. When fueling with my electric pump, I noticed that some fuel was dribling from the carb. This is because pump is forcing the fuel also into the carb. But, result was that I could start the engine just in few flips every time right after fueling. If you don't mind couple of drops of fuel in your cowl, it makes life much easier, so I will keep it as it is for a while.
Other observation is about plumbing. I recently changed to Y connector for fuel plumbing. This means that fueling is done directly between tank and carb. When fueling with my electric pump, I noticed that some fuel was dribling from the carb. This is because pump is forcing the fuel also into the carb. But, result was that I could start the engine just in few flips every time right after fueling. If you don't mind couple of drops of fuel in your cowl, it makes life much easier, so I will keep it as it is for a while.
02-21-2016, 02:05 AM
#458
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Beside of the price for the Koleo I like the sound of the selfmade collector ring in the clip below much more - and for a fraction of the koleo price ..
Elbows & tubes ordered ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9MM3L1hHFA
02-21-2016, 04:33 AM
#459
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dubai, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Scuba, I am always nervous about running this too lean as well. I think I might make it a practice of squirting some lube into the breather nipple every so often lol. Everytime I do some preventative maintenance, just zap some raw redline up its spout :-)
I did the maiden of mine yesterday (assisted by someone who has had more flying time than me of late). Its mounted on an El Cheapo Yakk 55M. Flew well, but was rich on its first outing, this was evident by the burbling in the air at mid-throttle, full throttle seemed to be fine. The LS needle controls pretty much all aspects of throttle travel, apart from maybe the last 25% of throttle travel before full. We had a little scare in that it cut out going into a vertical climb, but seemed to be linked to a potential 'brown out'.....managed to get her back safely anyway. On the second, I warmed the engine up and then got it to mid throttle where it was noticeably burbling, and tuned it out with the LS needle. After that, went through some transitions and it was fine. I had to lower the idle trim as leaning it up resulted in higher revving idle.
Second flight was much better, and I noticed that after idling on taxi and then holding on the lineup, the initial transition through the throttle resulted in a small amount of smoke coming out the exhaust. I expect that this means there is a lot of oil being used on idle. Not sure whether this is good or bad, but I would rather have oil in the system that gets blown out when the throttle opens, than none. I just hope it does not 'clog' the plugs and valves. Will do a few more flights in this config, and then will go to a maintenance phase of looking at the plugs, setting valve clearances and visual.
I have not flown it with the cowl on, as I need to do some balancing, the motor is heavier than appropriate 2C engines. I have a telemetry module attached to cylinder 1 and I set the alarm at 150 Deg Celsius. I only ever got one alarm and that is after a few circuits of FULL throttle into a vertical climb. The rest of the time the temp hovered around 125 Celsius. The sensor is between the fins directly below the exhaust outlet so is getting higher than normal temps as it is probably getting some EGT measurement in there. I am happy though, that the temps were quite consistent. Even idling on the ground they never go over 110, rev it to full throttle and it moves up to 137-140 in 20seconds of full. As soon as you drop the revs back to idle, it cools very quickly.
Bushrider, way out of my skill level, but that engine sounds really good.
I did the maiden of mine yesterday (assisted by someone who has had more flying time than me of late). Its mounted on an El Cheapo Yakk 55M. Flew well, but was rich on its first outing, this was evident by the burbling in the air at mid-throttle, full throttle seemed to be fine. The LS needle controls pretty much all aspects of throttle travel, apart from maybe the last 25% of throttle travel before full. We had a little scare in that it cut out going into a vertical climb, but seemed to be linked to a potential 'brown out'.....managed to get her back safely anyway. On the second, I warmed the engine up and then got it to mid throttle where it was noticeably burbling, and tuned it out with the LS needle. After that, went through some transitions and it was fine. I had to lower the idle trim as leaning it up resulted in higher revving idle.
Second flight was much better, and I noticed that after idling on taxi and then holding on the lineup, the initial transition through the throttle resulted in a small amount of smoke coming out the exhaust. I expect that this means there is a lot of oil being used on idle. Not sure whether this is good or bad, but I would rather have oil in the system that gets blown out when the throttle opens, than none. I just hope it does not 'clog' the plugs and valves. Will do a few more flights in this config, and then will go to a maintenance phase of looking at the plugs, setting valve clearances and visual.
I have not flown it with the cowl on, as I need to do some balancing, the motor is heavier than appropriate 2C engines. I have a telemetry module attached to cylinder 1 and I set the alarm at 150 Deg Celsius. I only ever got one alarm and that is after a few circuits of FULL throttle into a vertical climb. The rest of the time the temp hovered around 125 Celsius. The sensor is between the fins directly below the exhaust outlet so is getting higher than normal temps as it is probably getting some EGT measurement in there. I am happy though, that the temps were quite consistent. Even idling on the ground they never go over 110, rev it to full throttle and it moves up to 137-140 in 20seconds of full. As soon as you drop the revs back to idle, it cools very quickly.
Bushrider, way out of my skill level, but that engine sounds really good.
02-22-2016, 11:23 AM
#460
Do you have the TF P-47 Tarheel Hal version? I think they are the same anyway. Have you figured out how to make the spinner work on the FG-60R3? I looked at mine the other day and it looks like I may have to drill out the center of the spinner to make it deep enough. Maybe it won't work at all.
Did you find that having the prop hub out 172mm from the firewall like the instructions say will not work for you?
Did you find that having the prop hub out 172mm from the firewall like the instructions say will not work for you?
Also, I'd like to add a smoke system to this plane once it's flying well on this engine while at the same time make it removable. The interior is really cramped due to all the servos for the tail all up front so I'm just curious if anyone else was able to do the same thing and can share a picture or two.
thx.
02-22-2016, 02:14 PM
#462
My Feedback: (3)
I have:
1 1800mAh lipo next to the tank for ignition.
3 1800mAh lipos mounted on the beam that holds the two screws that the wing screws to. I made a custom mount for them. 2 for receiver and 1 for the electric retracts.
I had to put 3 ounces of lead in the tail. The lead fits on a nice shelf between the rudder and the tail wheel hole. I drilled a hole in the lead and used a bolt and nut to screw the lead down back there.
1 1800mAh lipo next to the tank for ignition.
3 1800mAh lipos mounted on the beam that holds the two screws that the wing screws to. I made a custom mount for them. 2 for receiver and 1 for the electric retracts.
I had to put 3 ounces of lead in the tail. The lead fits on a nice shelf between the rudder and the tail wheel hole. I drilled a hole in the lead and used a bolt and nut to screw the lead down back there.
This is really a question for anyone with the TF P-47 Tarheel Hal version, where did you end up mounting your batteries to achieve the spec'd CG and did you have to put any dead weight in the tail too?
Also, I'd like to add a smoke system to this plane once it's flying well on this engine while at the same time make it removable. The interior is really cramped due to all the servos for the tail all up front so I'm just curious if anyone else was able to do the same thing and can share a picture or two.
thx.
Also, I'd like to add a smoke system to this plane once it's flying well on this engine while at the same time make it removable. The interior is really cramped due to all the servos for the tail all up front so I'm just curious if anyone else was able to do the same thing and can share a picture or two.
thx.
02-22-2016, 02:35 PM
#463
Are you guys running air or electric retracts, and do you have the tailwheel retract or the stock tailwheel setup? Heard a couple guys moved batteries up to the firewall with the FG60 to balance it - unsure what exactly they were using elsewhere though.
I've got quite a bunch of equipment in my ARF Tarheel. Moved the throttle servo right up on the firewall, have two large 5,000Mah 2S2P A123 batteries powering everything, installed a switch panel that uses the cooling "doors" at the rear of the plane, and using Robart electric mains and tail retract with 5" aluminum wheels. We shall see how it all balances when I'm eventually finished the install... not going to be on the lighter side I suspect
I've got quite a bunch of equipment in my ARF Tarheel. Moved the throttle servo right up on the firewall, have two large 5,000Mah 2S2P A123 batteries powering everything, installed a switch panel that uses the cooling "doors" at the rear of the plane, and using Robart electric mains and tail retract with 5" aluminum wheels. We shall see how it all balances when I'm eventually finished the install... not going to be on the lighter side I suspect
02-22-2016, 05:12 PM
#464
Ran the engine today for the first time and did so on Tarheel Hal. I was surprised how easily it started up and ran. started off at 2 full turns out and probably turned it out maybe up to 2 more full turns. RPMs stayed between 330 - 370 almost the whole time. The stock kit tank took about 24 minutes to empty at that rich setting. I didn't cut any length off the spark plug covers but they all stayed on there very well and passed the tug test when I put it away. I'm using redline with the redline break-in oil additive. I just kind of winged it. mixed redline up to about 15 to 1 then added about 3 to 4 ounces of the additive on top of that. What's the theory behind the value of the additive and how many ounces of it do you really need to use to get the maximum benefits of it?
I'm pretty sure the instructions say to run two tanks then go fly, right? So why are people running gallons through it before flying?
I'm pretty sure the instructions say to run two tanks then go fly, right? So why are people running gallons through it before flying?
02-23-2016, 04:54 AM
#465
My Feedback: (3)
I'm running Redline too, but didn't go with the performance additive. Not sure why people are running so much fuel through it. I did what the manual suggested which was to run two 1000mL tanks through the engine, then go for performance tune and fly.
Ran the engine today for the first time and did so on Tarheel Hal. I was surprised how easily it started up and ran. started off at 2 full turns out and probably turned it out maybe up to 2 more full turns. RPMs stayed between 330 - 370 almost the whole time. The stock kit tank took about 24 minutes to empty at that rich setting. I didn't cut any length off the spark plug covers but they all stayed on there very well and passed the tug test when I put it away. I'm using redline with the redline break-in oil additive. I just kind of winged it. mixed redline up to about 15 to 1 then added about 3 to 4 ounces of the additive on top of that. What's the theory behind the value of the additive and how many ounces of it do you really need to use to get the maximum benefits of it?
I'm pretty sure the instructions say to run two tanks then go fly, right? So why are people running gallons through it before flying?
I'm pretty sure the instructions say to run two tanks then go fly, right? So why are people running gallons through it before flying?
02-23-2016, 05:00 AM
#466
My Feedback: (3)
Are you guys running air or electric retracts, and do you have the tailwheel retract or the stock tailwheel setup? Heard a couple guys moved batteries up to the firewall with the FG60 to balance it - unsure what exactly they were using elsewhere though.
I've got quite a bunch of equipment in my ARF Tarheel. Moved the throttle servo right up on the firewall, have two large 5,000Mah 2S2P A123 batteries powering everything, installed a switch panel that uses the cooling "doors" at the rear of the plane, and using Robart electric mains and tail retract with 5" aluminum wheels. We shall see how it all balances when I'm eventually finished the install... not going to be on the lighter side I suspect
I've got quite a bunch of equipment in my ARF Tarheel. Moved the throttle servo right up on the firewall, have two large 5,000Mah 2S2P A123 batteries powering everything, installed a switch panel that uses the cooling "doors" at the rear of the plane, and using Robart electric mains and tail retract with 5" aluminum wheels. We shall see how it all balances when I'm eventually finished the install... not going to be on the lighter side I suspect
02-23-2016, 07:55 PM
#467
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: darwin, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi scubaozy
on my low end i have that at 6 3/4 turns out, it has a bit of a rich sounding burble when on idle , but the throttle response is great and it pulls 6000rpm with a 20x10 3 blade wooden prop, and the high end is set at 1 1/2 turns out. What i have found is with the slightly rich low end setting it seems to be much easier to start up. Another trick on "first start up" is after filling the tank 3/4 full , put the throttle to full open and fill the last bit of the tank up. I get a bit of fuel coming out of the carb and is then very easy to start ( with an electric starter ) I am at sea level, but in the tropics so we run motors a bit richer for the correct tune.. hope this is of some help.
on my low end i have that at 6 3/4 turns out, it has a bit of a rich sounding burble when on idle , but the throttle response is great and it pulls 6000rpm with a 20x10 3 blade wooden prop, and the high end is set at 1 1/2 turns out. What i have found is with the slightly rich low end setting it seems to be much easier to start up. Another trick on "first start up" is after filling the tank 3/4 full , put the throttle to full open and fill the last bit of the tank up. I get a bit of fuel coming out of the carb and is then very easy to start ( with an electric starter ) I am at sea level, but in the tropics so we run motors a bit richer for the correct tune.. hope this is of some help.
02-25-2016, 05:44 AM
#468
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Berlin, GERMANY
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi GT, with your settings mine is running extremely rich, with 1-1/2 on high end, my 3rd cylinder does often not fire. It could be temperature difference, as it is quite cold right now in Europe. It might also be the fuel. What kind of petrol/oil do you use?
02-25-2016, 07:50 AM
#469
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Champaign,
IL
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=cathurga;12179856]...I have a telemetry module attached to cylinder 1 and I set the alarm at 150 Deg Celsius. I only ever got one alarm and that is after a few circuits of FULL throttle into a vertical climb. The rest of the time the temp hovered around 125 Celsius. The sensor is between the fins directly below the exhaust outlet so is getting higher than normal temps as it is probably getting some EGT measurement in there. I am happy though, that the temps were quite consistent. Even idling on the ground they never go over 110, rev it to full throttle and it moves up to 137-140 in 20seconds of full. As soon as you drop the revs back to idle, it cools very quickly.../QUOTE]
Cathurga,
I would start to get a little worried at 150°C, that seems pretty hot to me. The location of your sensor may have something to do with it, but if you have access to an infrared thermometer it might be good to double check the front of the head near the top. If that location is still higher than 120°C I would consider adding some baffling. The engine may survive at those higher temps, but adding cooling does nothing but help an engine last longer.
Just my thoughts.
Jimmy
Cathurga,
I would start to get a little worried at 150°C, that seems pretty hot to me. The location of your sensor may have something to do with it, but if you have access to an infrared thermometer it might be good to double check the front of the head near the top. If that location is still higher than 120°C I would consider adding some baffling. The engine may survive at those higher temps, but adding cooling does nothing but help an engine last longer.
Just my thoughts.
Jimmy
02-25-2016, 07:55 AM
#470
My Feedback: (3)
I have three telemetry sensors mounted on my FG60R3. I have them mounted right on the big part of the fin by intake chrome pipe where it goes into the jug.
With the canopy off on the ground I get temps around 270F. With the canopy on, and my baffling setup I am getting up to about 305F.
This weekend I am going to attempt to remove the baffle completely and see what temps I get. Theres an individual a couple of posts up that runs without any baffles in a very hot climate and seems to be doing ok.
I have the Tarheel Hal P47 plane, and have not flown it yet. Only ground work so far....
[QUOTE=jspauld2;12181907]
With the canopy off on the ground I get temps around 270F. With the canopy on, and my baffling setup I am getting up to about 305F.
This weekend I am going to attempt to remove the baffle completely and see what temps I get. Theres an individual a couple of posts up that runs without any baffles in a very hot climate and seems to be doing ok.
I have the Tarheel Hal P47 plane, and have not flown it yet. Only ground work so far....
[QUOTE=jspauld2;12181907]
...I have a telemetry module attached to cylinder 1 and I set the alarm at 150 Deg Celsius. I only ever got one alarm and that is after a few circuits of FULL throttle into a vertical climb. The rest of the time the temp hovered around 125 Celsius. The sensor is between the fins directly below the exhaust outlet so is getting higher than normal temps as it is probably getting some EGT measurement in there. I am happy though, that the temps were quite consistent. Even idling on the ground they never go over 110, rev it to full throttle and it moves up to 137-140 in 20seconds of full. As soon as you drop the revs back to idle, it cools very quickly.../QUOTE]
Cathurga,
I would start to get a little worried at 150°C, that seems pretty hot to me. The location of your sensor may have something to do with it, but if you have access to an infrared thermometer it might be good to double check the front of the head near the top. If that location is still higher than 120°C I would consider adding some baffling. The engine may survive at those higher temps, but adding cooling does nothing but help an engine last longer.
Just my thoughts.
Jimmy
Cathurga,
I would start to get a little worried at 150°C, that seems pretty hot to me. The location of your sensor may have something to do with it, but if you have access to an infrared thermometer it might be good to double check the front of the head near the top. If that location is still higher than 120°C I would consider adding some baffling. The engine may survive at those higher temps, but adding cooling does nothing but help an engine last longer.
Just my thoughts.
Jimmy
02-25-2016, 08:05 AM
#471
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Champaign,
IL
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For anyone who is interested, Saito just released a collector ring for the FG-60R3 that we will be shipping later this month. It is item number: SAIG60R3171 and the link.is below. I apologize for not having a picture for this, we will try to get it up shortly. The finish is very nice and it is made from high quality stainless steel.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/fg-60r3-...ca-saig60r3171
Thanks,
Jimmy
http://www.horizonhobby.com/fg-60r3-...ca-saig60r3171
Thanks,
Jimmy
02-25-2016, 08:11 AM
#472
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Champaign,
IL
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Timbers,
That is good info to know. I don't know if that is definitively too high, but it certainly couldn't hurt to try and bring the temps down a bit.
I shoot for less than 300°F for 2-strokes (which run hotter on average) and I would think that these Saitos should average far lower than that. I am certainly not an expert on these but I do have a lot of engine experience. Does anyone else have any feedback on real world temps?
Jimmy
That is good info to know. I don't know if that is definitively too high, but it certainly couldn't hurt to try and bring the temps down a bit.
I shoot for less than 300°F for 2-strokes (which run hotter on average) and I would think that these Saitos should average far lower than that. I am certainly not an expert on these but I do have a lot of engine experience. Does anyone else have any feedback on real world temps?
Jimmy
02-25-2016, 08:47 AM
#473
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Berlin, GERMANY
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For anyone who is interested, Saito just released a collector ring for the FG-60R3 that we will be shipping later this month. It is item number: SAIG60R3171 and the link.is below. I apologize for not having a picture for this, we will try to get it up shortly. The finish is very nice and it is made from high quality stainless steel.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/fg-60r3-...ca-saig60r3171
Thanks,
Jimmy
http://www.horizonhobby.com/fg-60r3-...ca-saig60r3171
Thanks,
Jimmy
https://www.lindinger.at/en/airplane...empfer-fg-60r3
02-25-2016, 09:12 AM
#474
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dubai, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I have the temp sensor located directly under the exhaust outlet, wedged in the fins just below it. As I mentioned, I expect that the exhaust gas temp is influencing my readings. This is also a reason why the temps fluctuate so much, it only ever got to 150c when I went into a vertical climb, into a hover. The rest of the time it never got higher than 129c
02-25-2016, 11:04 AM
#475
For anyone who is interested, Saito just released a collector ring for the FG-60R3 that we will be shipping later this month. It is item number: SAIG60R3171 and the link.is below. I apologize for not having a picture for this, we will try to get it up shortly. The finish is very nice and it is made from high quality stainless steel.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/fg-60r3-...ca-saig60r3171
Thanks,
Jimmy
http://www.horizonhobby.com/fg-60r3-...ca-saig60r3171
Thanks,
Jimmy