BobH

My Feedback: (2)

While it may seem like a good idea to rotate the cylinders during break in I don't think there is much value in going through the process. The reason being a couple of things. One: the materials should by design be able to withstand their intended uses. and Two: once mounted in a plane the cylinders are subjected to their fixed positions and subjected to that environment.

HARRIS-G

This is the best way to break-in this engine... Due to rich condition of break-in the No1 is always hot No2 warm and No3 cold. So the metals don't warm up and cool down as they should and get the proper strenght.... I think that this process is a must to this engine... It is your engine and your decision.....

Reverend

My Feedback: (3)

Hey Guys,

FWIW, i just got an email from MRS that they have their website up and running. Its in german, but theres a contact form. Most important, theres a lot of pictures showing the MRS Rings with dimensions.

https://www.meier-ringschalldaempfer.com/

Rev

khoysagk

My Feedback: (2)

While I agree that this is probably the better way to break the engine in, not everyone has the resources to build a rotating test stand.

757jonp

My Feedback: (48)

My main concern on initial break in was for the crankpin to make friends with the master rod, not what the cylinders were doing. I just gradually leaned it out until I could get all cylinders firing. Interestingly on my engine No 2 has always been the hottest, followed my No 1 with No 3 being the coldest. Once tuned for flying all temps have always been with 20 degrees of each other, max being about 190 or so.

jonesjj3

My Feedback: (16)

I am finding that this rotating break in stand is a little harder for me to make than I thought my resources are limited and still trying to figure out how to make it rotate while running the motor I have seen the pics here but just seeing something working is one thing and seeing how it is done is another. any one want to share in a little detail how to make this thing?

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

While rotating the engine during breakin is probably a good idea it's far from mandatory. I've done two FG60s without it and they both run like they're supposed to.

There isn't any reason that the engine needs to be turned while it's running. The link I posted to FG shows a stand that lets you quickly unbolt and turn the engine between runs. Does the exact same thing as turning the engine during runs.

HARRIS-G

You will need a milling machine to do the rotate stand or someone that will do for you, but also you can break-in the engine as all the other fellow pilots made. Something else is that before the first run you must put through the breathing nipple about 10ml of oil because the engine comes dead dry from the factory. Good luck

757jonp

My Feedback: (48)

If I was to make a rotating mount I'd mount the engine to a chunk of 3/4 ply about 14" in diameter and wood screw it to something secure. Come time to rotate it, just back off the screws and remount in the new position... simple.

Might be a little exciting to do it while it's running though, but hey, I like a little excitement once in awhile! LOL

JLink125

My Feedback: (1)

Question, does anyone know what temperature thier exhaust ring gets too? Reason I ask is that I'm looking to fab one for my fg60 and I'm looking into various materials to use.

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

This might simplify some projects -



Saito FG 60 Baffle [SAT60-BAF] - $15.00 : Keleo!, Radial Engine Exhaust

slither

Looks nice! What is its diameter?

757jonp

My Feedback: (48)

Now that just takes all the fun out of designing and building your own baffle!

larry@coyotenet

My Feedback: (21)

I am not impressed with the Saito gas radials. Just took apart a 60cc of my friends after it had seized on the fourth flight in a TF 47. He sent it back to Horizon to get it repaired under warranty and they told him it wasn't covered because he had the Ray English mods done. I took it apart to see what damage it had received. He ran it on the recommended cool power oil and at the recommended ratio. I found that the master rod had broken and one of the rods had broken. Looked like the con rod had seized on the master rod and broken both. This happened with no warning. There was plenty of oil in the crankcase. I was shocked at the small size of the connecting rod lower bearing area. It was a lot smaller than it could have been. The failure appeared to be on the master rod side where the master rod had broken in the area where the con rod pin connected to the master rod. There is just not enough beef in that area for the pin to ride on the master rod. Ray English is rebuilding the engine for him at no charge, he just has to supply the parts. Ray went to bat with Horizon for him but no go. While it was running the war bird guys in our club where very unimpressed with the performance. Normally we all fly G-62's in the 47 or maybe a eme 55 or 60. Either of these will run rings around the Saito. I would say you would need the 90 cc version to get equal performance. He replaced the Saito with a G-62 and speed went up by 20+ mph as clocked with a radar gun.
Larry

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

I don't know anything about the Ray English mod's and whether they impact reliability of the engine. I can understand why HH won't honor the factory warrantee after someone had modified the engine. Might be reason enough to leave the engine stock. If the English mods increase engine power and rpm then reliability may suffer?

The FG-60 seems to have the power of a good 45cc two stroke. I've flown my TF P-47 on both the FG-60 and an EME-55 and the EME is much stronger. But the Saito did fly the P-47 adequately. I put the Saito in a 30cc size Bearcat and the performance was outstanding in every respect. Different horses for different courses.

khoysagk

My Feedback: (2)

This is not the first time I hear about a Saito radial seizing after it has been modded by Ray English.
How can you compare the FG60 to an EME 55 or 60? That's apples and oranges. I thought everyone knew by now that 2-strokes are more powerful than 4-strokes.

larry@coyotenet

My Feedback: (21)

Not comparing engines, comparing engineering. Saito's gas engines are recarburated glow engines converted to gas. Not reworking the connecting rod ends for needle bearings or even bushings is bad engineering practice. The problems you read about stem from trying to run aluminum rods and steel crank pins. Works with glow engines and 18% oil, not so good with gas and 5% oil (20 to 10)

khoysagk

My Feedback: (2)

Sounds like comparing engines to me.

aquaskiman

My Feedback: (46)

Larry... George here I had FG-60R3 in a TF Zero it also sized on the master rod. The engine was stock, I sent to Horizon and they sent me a new engine with a note saying this was a 1 time warranty. So I guess the three year warranty is only if you don't have a failure. I sold the new engine and went with a DLE 61. Ken had a 84 with Ray English mods it also sized Horizon warranty it with no questions and no end of warranty.

JLink125

My Feedback: (1)

I need some advice, I'm breaking in my fg60 and have run 2 tanks equaling 32ozs through it so far. It is very rich as I can only achieve 4100rpm on my tach which by the manual is appropriate. Question is I can't keep cylinder #3 lit, 1 and 2 fire consistently but 3 is very intermittent. Also #3 blows lots of oil everywhere while 1 and 2 seem to have relatively little comparatively which makes sense considering no spark. I've read this thread and it seems fairly normal to drop a cylinder during rich break in settings but I'm just not sure I'm doing it right. This is my first radial engine and maybe I'm being paranoid but I really don't want to hurt this engine because of a stupid mistake. How easy is it to foul these little plugs and by leaning it out will #3 begin to fire?

Here are my settings:
main needle: 4 turns out
low needle: 6.5 turns out
ignition voltage is 7.4v
cylinder temps at full throttle: #1 227 #2 220 #3 140
using 94 non ethinol fuel mixed 15:1 with cool power oil

757jonp

My Feedback: (48)

IMHO it sounds to me like you're doing all the right things. I had the same experience with #3 on the first couple tanks, then I leaned out the low speed needle just enough to get #3 to fire and continued on with the breakin for at least the remainder of the first gallon or so. As far as fouled plugs go, if you mean dirty or carboned up I haven't seen any of that. In the case of #3 above it's just to rich to fire.

JLink125

My Feedback: (1)

That's what I figured, I'll work on the low end and see how it goes. Thank you for the info, I really appreciate it. How many turn out is your low end needle?

ALFIEV

Also consider the fitting of your ignition lead to spark plug. I found it quite difficult to keep the lead fully engaged with the plug on #3 cylinder. As a result I was only achieving rpm about the same as you have reported, my tacho wasn't steady, and #3 cylinder was cold,or only getting minimal heat through firing every now and then. Once I sorted the lead on the plug #3 cylinder only dropped out at low rpm and I achieved good top rpm with #3 cylinder showing good temp, albeit cooler than the other 2 cylinders. My tacho readings were stable as well.
Might not be your problem, but it was mine. Not a great fan of small plugs and flimsy spring clips!!

757jonp

My Feedback: (48)

Quite frankly I'm not sure exactly where my needles are at now, but when I first started they were pretty close to yours. As I recall I didn't have to turn the low side in much as it's very sensitive, it's about 3 turns on the high side.

Good call on the ignition cap, that's worth checking for sure.

JLink125

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for the info! I ran another few tanks this weekend and I did lean it a little, once I did #3 started firing! It's still really rich but top rpm is consistently 5600-5800 with temps in the 240-260 range wide open. It has about a gallon through it now and seems to be getting better every run plus it starts 1st flip nearly every time now! On my last tank this evening it dropped the #3 cylinder again but intermittently. I did play with the needles though and I think my ignition battery was low so I'll reset, charge the battery, and definitely check the #3 ignition lead tomorrow.