crhammond

My Feedback: (21)

I have an Evolution 58GX version 1. I had problems from day 1 and it was sent back after 6 flights because it would not respond to high needle adjustments at all. They replaced the reed valves and carb (took 2 months!!!) Now I cannot get it to turn more than 5,900 RPM's on either a 24x10 2 blade Mej or 21x12 3-blade Mej... it hits 5,900 and just sits there... richen it up and it wil slow down. I was under the impression it should turn in the mid 6,000's with a Bisson Pitts and 24x10 prop right out of the box...

I'm on the verge of sending it back again (costs me a bunch of money and time for shipping) I'm wondering if I just need to give it more break in time. I am running the break in oil at 30:1 still, 91 octane gas. I have an Evolution muffler on the way too - unfortunately there is no way to fit a can in my plane (composite and no pipe tunnel...)

marzo91

My Feedback: (57)

My MVVS 58 with a pitts style muffler turns a MSC 24x8 about 6400 rpm on the ground. The thrust is great. Give this size prop a try and fly it, you'll like it.

rmh

Too bad - many people get led down the path on prop/muffler combos
Never try for an announced rpm - you will likely be disappointed. the 24x8 is a much better size as noted
On a proper large open can setup - the 24x10 will likely do the job -guessing
We ran tuned can of our own design on ZDZ60's -a lot -and they ran an honest 6400 at our elevation -on MenzS 24x10's
The MVVS is a fair match to this engine.
Hoped for and guessed at differences in muffler prop setups is a trap- and far too many people get caught in it
it is exactly the same as "30 miles per gallon" advertising -sure it CAN happen -but the actual parameters for it to happen are likely not the same as yours.

greyhound man

My Feedback: (5)

Thats the same rpm mine would turn with the Mejzlik 24-10 I used a 23-8 nx break in prop and was getting around 6500 out of the box, I had the same experience as you with the high end needle. unfortunately mine ate the piston ring after 5 gallons or so I sent it in and was repaired quickly, but the ring immediately broke again and had to be sent back in, but this time they replaced the engine, with the version 2 have not had a chance to run it yet. In the manual on my new 58 it says the engines develop their peak power from 6100-6300 rpm's. If I remember correctly the old manuals stated a much higher rpm closer to 7k unless I am mistaken.

rmh

Peak power -- peak torque on that exhaust system - It does put out more HP at higher rpm.
The results on that chart are rather typical of any modern two stroke.
Not knocking the engine -

janch

Hi,

I have 58 CCM engine with original mufler and it turns with Mejzlik 26/10 more than 6000.

rmh

Yes - That is very realistic - however much promotion activity on the engine compared it favorably with 80cc engines .
So far - This seems a bit optomistic

crhammond

My Feedback: (21)

Thanks Dick - and other fellas,

I'll drop down a prop size. The performance at 5,900 is not terrible - the engine definately seems to be working too hard though.

I was going by the manual expecting more... they suggest big props and high RPM's - I guess because they are testing with cans. Yes there are quite a few people comparing to 80cc size. I've seen more than a few posts of 58gx's turning 26x10 props and I'm skeptical since my ZDZ80 turns a Mej 26x10 at 6,150 (JTec custom muffler.) I have a different muffler to try and I'll get a bunch more gas through it with a smaller prop that lets it wind up and see how it goes after it breaks in some more.

Forgot to mention I'm at 2,200 ft.

Chris.

rmh

Mejzlic also makes a "narrow series " likely that prop was used - someone may have overlooked that part of it -

ben beyer

My Feedback: (23)

I had a version 1 Evolution 58 and had to send it in for service after the two weekends I went to fly it. So I sold it and bought a 3W and I've been happy ever since.

crhammond

My Feedback: (21)

Once again - thanks for the tips guys,

Today I bench ran the plane. I noticed I had some binding in the linkage top end which I fixed. I installed a Mejzlik 23x8 2 blade, mixed up a fresh batch of fuel, went back to factory carb settings, re-tuned the carb and re-programmed the throttle curve.

Now it pulls 6,600 RPM static and accelerates very smooth and free. The engine started super easy, idled at between 1,200 and 1,300 and sounds MUCH, MUCH healthier. I'm going to run it like this for a few more gallons and then perhaps go to a 24x8. It should pull my 17lb airframe just fine on this setup.

It now turns the 21x12x3 at 6,200 but the engine "sounded" like it was working very hard to me. The noise right now is all muffler (Bisson side-mount) so when the new Evolution Pitts gets here I'm guessing I'll be within the noise limits on the 23x8 and not have to suffer the 3-blade performance downgrade.

adrian-RCU

i have a mvvs58 with the can muffler - i get 6550 with a bolly 24x10 wood engine cold - 6400 hot like now 100deg.

great performance on a AM 30% yak - 17.5lbs

rmh

Sounds good - letting the engine run on "easy running " prop will pay off .

jimmyjoe

My Feedback: (21)

I think that the new g2 version is only a cleaned up port job and a little nice ignition system. I have had mine through 3 gallons and runs great. Even richened it a 1/4 top and bottom with a 24x10 Bolly wood and it turns 5950-6100. However, I had a little problem trying to land my Aviation Models Yak 54 on Sunday. The plane would not idle down, three passes and finally flipped the choke switch on final to make her quite flying. Thought I had an air leak. Pulled the engine and low and behold the base gasket was ripped. There is the theory for the airleak. Other than that the plane was pulling her weight with no problems. This motor starts on the 3rd flip everytime. I think it is a great engine and would recommend it to anyone. Thanks for all the good info.

Panzlflyer

My Feedback: (15)

Thats strange mine just came back after doing exactly the same thing. Gasket blew out.

Riverdancer

My Feedback: (5)

Hey there Chris,

We are running a ZDZ 60 on a muffler that I made and it turned a 24 x 10 MenzS at 6200 out of the box.. I was pretty impressed. Very quiet too.. We will have a meter put on it over the next week or so.. We are now running a 24 x 8 JXF at about the same RPM and flying a 16lb Yak just great.. Are you planning to make the GHFF on the 24th or 25th? Mybe we'll get a chance to see you there.

BTW I wound up with a Saito 180 of yours... did you have trouble getting any RPM out of it? I couldn't get it turn any more than about 6800 rpm.. so I reset the cam timing and now it pulls very well. My guess is the cam was off by one tooth. My son has it in a Showtime.

Take care for now.. Riverdancer

crhammond

My Feedback: (21)

Hello - Doug is it? I think you're a freind of Don Bright's? I heard about your son's awesome flying abilities from Frank Kelly today - and your super powerful 60cc ZDZ. Alas my flying is still in "early development" - I'll have been flying one year in September... got my wings, instructors, advanced wings and then started IMAC ... been practicing basic IMAC all summer and am now working on Sportsman. I have burned a heck of a LOT of gas this spring/summer!!

I'm flying Don Bright's old Extra 330L these days with the ZDZ80... tell Don the 330L is flying AWESOME after a bit of incidence re-trimming, quieter muffler and weight reduction... the Sukhoi is resting in the garage right now. I also have a GP Cap580 with a DA100 that will maiden tomorrow or maybe Friday... busy busy.

I never ran the 180 other than 3 break in tanks at 4000 - 600 RPM's. The Hobby WHolsale guys told me you'd adjusted the CAM. I ended up giving up glow as soon as I discovered GAS... that and I have contact dermatitus that is very aggrivated by glow fuel. The 33% Extra is my every day flyer now... 180 in a Showtime - cool. I have one with a 125 but I hardly fly it now - the fuse is not straight and the 125 doesn't pull it near as well as advertised even on 30%... it will likely be sold this winter and I need to settle on just a couple of planes and stop jumping around so much HA HA. I got the bug bad ... but on the plus side I have now flow about every type of plane out there other than jets.

I don't fly 3D yet... I do the odd hover up high for fun and maybe a flat spin every now and then but mostly I'm trying to fly precision and get the basics down pat. Maybe in a couple of years once I can fly normal rollers and such I'll move on to 3D.

Unfortunately I'll be away during the Great Western Fun Fly... in the Suswap. I was planing to attend the Kelowna IMAC but we're only in the interior for 1 week and it will take away too much family time - plus I just haven't practiced enough the past few weeks.

Maybe we can get some kind of aerobatics going here next year? ... Pattern is okay but I like the giant scale IMAC stuff better. I fly at Cap City and Meridian. I know of 3 or 4 other folks who'd like to see some kind of friendly competition. PM/email me if you'd like. Cap City are having a fun fly in September and I'll likely attend Don's corn roast as well.

Riverdancer

My Feedback: (5)

Good to Hear,

Sounds like you are flying up a storm. I haven't been so lucky this year.. Only about 3 flight in O6 but I have been working a fair bit and working on the house. IMAC is the best.. I really enjoy that type of flying as well.. We should work on getting a competition going for next year.. I have been lazy or I would have done it by now.. It just sucks doing it by your self. Too bad you won't make it to the Great hobbies fun fly. Perhaps we'll see you at the corn roast/boil.. :0)

PS: have you sold the Sukhoi..? You should make me a deal I cant refuse..:0) I have a nice little MVVS 45 that would go good in there.. good luck with the 58 I have one as well only it's an MVVS version.

As for my son, he is getting quite the reputation.. he does a good job I have to admit. (I'm just jealous) The ZDZ is working very well.

Take Care for now..

Thanks

Riverdancer

crhammond

My Feedback: (21)

Just following up... I got hold of an Evolution wrap-around Pitts muffler for the 58GX. It's not much quieter than the Bisson but it is a more pleasant low frequency sound... but the BIG plus is it now turns the 23x8 at 7,050 static VS 6,600 on the Bisson! I may have enough to turn that 24x10 after all once it breaks in!

Panzlflyer

My Feedback: (15)

Well after going thru hoops to get mine runing again it is now ripping a 24/10NX on even the slightest downline

bonedaddy41

My Feedback: (2)

Hmmm, now I am starting to worry. When I got ready to land my Oracle Challenger yesterday, it would not idle down for landing ... and even the choke would not kill the engine. Luckily we have a 750+ feet long grass runway so I was able to set it down and let the wheel pants and long grass do what they do best I was able to slow it down enough to start a sweeping turn and a friend ran out and grabbed the plane while I fishtailed it to keep the speed down [:'(] I thought my choke/throttle servo tray had vibrated loose and was turning the bipe over to pull the bottom wing. I noticed a "piece of paper" next to the muffler and thought I had just picked up some trash from the runway [] Nope, it was gasket material. After pulling the engine, the entire rear section of the gasket is gone and both sides have gasket sticking out around base/cyl bolts.

Has anybody heard what is actually causing this? I hate to just replace the gasket and "hope it doesn't happen again". I really don't want to loose a plane because of a known issue.

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

Pretty hard to blow out a gasket with the 5 or 6 lbs pressure in the case...Maybe the surfaces are not exactly flat ? Or the gasket material is too thick and compresses at the corners ?
Sounds like the old 3W problem with the phenolic carb insulator block, tighten the corners too tight and the block warped and leaked in the center...
Just for a reference, the base gasket on a G62 is about 1/8" wide at the thinnest part, on both sides at the transfer ports...The cylinder bolts are about 2 1/8" apart...Can't say as I ever saw a blown base gasket on a G62...The factory tightens the cylinder bolts so tight they come loose with an audiable "pop" .....[8D]

Hans Meij

Saw this happen a few weeks ago too. This must be a weak point.

rmh

seen this before -
two things going on - one the case gasket /flange is narrow and the bolts can slightly loosen.
result is a gasket blows out -just like a muffler flange gasket often may do.
I just ran a write up/ test on the new 116 -uses much the same setup -but no problems and what a beautiful smooth runner !
it will now do duty in a Tug plane for gliders --
Like harnessing a race hose to rag pickers wagon--- (sniff)

Panzlflyer

My Feedback: (15)

Bonedaddy as I posted earlier, mine did the exact same thing. And the bolts were tight ( as I could get them )