DL-50 engine
07-24-2008, 09:51 PM
#2226
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RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: skillet92
Guys all i have to say is WOW
. I ran the engine for an hour tonight at 2500 going to full throttle at 15 minute intervals. The engine started as soon as i figured how to get fuel to the carb and idled after finding out the trim was to low. it hit 7000 by 30 and by the time the hour was up it was at 7150. I do have one quetion. I have two reciever switchs but tonight only had one 2000 hydramax battery installed. at the end of one hour that battery was drained. this is not what i expected. i have hitec 985s coreless( my first coreless servos) do they drain more power or was the vibrations causing that much drain on the servos. Let me say that still have the throttle spring hooked up. i just don't believe that it would draw that much juice.
Guys all i have to say is WOW
. I ran the engine for an hour tonight at 2500 going to full throttle at 15 minute intervals. The engine started as soon as i figured how to get fuel to the carb and idled after finding out the trim was to low. it hit 7000 by 30 and by the time the hour was up it was at 7150. I do have one quetion. I have two reciever switchs but tonight only had one 2000 hydramax battery installed. at the end of one hour that battery was drained. this is not what i expected. i have hitec 985s coreless( my first coreless servos) do they drain more power or was the vibrations causing that much drain on the servos. Let me say that still have the throttle spring hooked up. i just don't believe that it would draw that much juice.
07-24-2008, 10:17 PM
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RE: DL-50 engine
Skillet92,
I have two planes with DL50's on them using one A123 battery for both the ignition and receiver. Typically, the batteries take about 600-800mAh when charging after three 12 minute flights. Both planes are running Hitec digital servos, with one have seven of the 5985's.
Chuck
I have two planes with DL50's on them using one A123 battery for both the ignition and receiver. Typically, the batteries take about 600-800mAh when charging after three 12 minute flights. Both planes are running Hitec digital servos, with one have seven of the 5985's.
Chuck
07-25-2008, 06:56 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
I am using the accucycle elite and yes i do think that it is peak charging. I will say that it was the first time that i had charged it and when i charged it again last night it said that it put 2389 in it. I will check it again tonight when i do the second hour of run-in.
07-25-2008, 08:43 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
Hello Chuck I,
New to the thread... So this question may have been addressed.
I'm interested in using A123s, but I believe the max voltage for the ign is 6v. How long have you been using freshly charged 2 cell A123? I'm assuming for a period of time you are over 7v...
New to the thread... So this question may have been addressed.
I'm interested in using A123s, but I believe the max voltage for the ign is 6v. How long have you been using freshly charged 2 cell A123? I'm assuming for a period of time you are over 7v...
07-25-2008, 08:44 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: BOUND_4_HELL
With Xoar 22x8 was turning 7200 and pulling 25 lbs of thrust @ 1200 ASL and 74 F
With Xoar 23x8 it's turning 6700 and pulling 26¼ lbs of thrust @ 1200 ASL and 74 F
With Xoar 22x8 was turning 7200 and pulling 25 lbs of thrust @ 1200 ASL and 74 F
With Xoar 23x8 it's turning 6700 and pulling 26¼ lbs of thrust @ 1200 ASL and 74 F
I have not read this entire thread, it's too long. Could somebody please answer this?
Is this typical power from a DL-50? I have seen numbers all over the board. Testing procedures vary wildly so I never know who to believe.
To Bob Pastorello; You have my Bunny prop, do you think it would be possible to post some RPM numbers for the DL-50 using a 22-8 Bunny, or any other suitable Bunny?
TF
07-25-2008, 08:51 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
With a JXF and NX, the NX is slightly lower, the JXF is pretty close to the Xoar, Tom. Mine got to 7100 with the JXF. About 6900 with the NX.
Emailed you about prop.
Emailed you about prop.
07-25-2008, 08:56 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: hbutler
Hello Chuck I,
New to the thread... So this question may have been addressed.
I'm interested in using A123s, but I believe the max voltage for the ign is 6v. How long have you been using freshly charged 2 cell A123? I'm assuming for a period of time you are over 7v...
Hello Chuck I,
New to the thread... So this question may have been addressed.
I'm interested in using A123s, but I believe the max voltage for the ign is 6v. How long have you been using freshly charged 2 cell A123? I'm assuming for a period of time you are over 7v...
http://www.rcaerobats.net/A123_INFO/...on_battery.htm
07-25-2008, 09:11 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
RCTOM I am by no means an expert i have a couple of smaller gas engines and one DL50. And I just ran it for the first time and i have a 23A Vess prop that i am using. I ran it for an hour at 2500 and still have one more to go before i fly it. I got the idle as low as 1500(almost to slow) and at 15 minute intervals i would open it up all the way for about 5 seconds. I got 7000 by 30 minutes and at the hour mark i was 7150. That is more than i could ask for being that the engine is new and i have not touched the carb at all.
07-25-2008, 09:15 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
For those of you that want to know or are using the A123 VPX cells, Lowes here where i live is no longer going to carry the VPX cell and they had them on clearance for $5.98. I picked up two more that makes 4 packs ready to take apart and build. I think i will go by there tomorrow and pick up the other 3 packs they have on the shelf.
07-25-2008, 09:19 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: skillet92
RCTOM I am by no means an expert i have a couple of smaller gas engines and one DL50. And I just ran it for the first time and i have a 23A Vess prop that i am using. I ran it for an hour at 2500 and still have one more to go before i fly it. I got the idle as low as 1500(almost to slow) and at 15 minute intervals i would open it up all the way for about 5 seconds. I got 7000 by 30 minutes and at the hour mark i was 7150. That is more than i could ask for being that the engine is new and i have not touched the carb at all.
RCTOM I am by no means an expert i have a couple of smaller gas engines and one DL50. And I just ran it for the first time and i have a 23A Vess prop that i am using. I ran it for an hour at 2500 and still have one more to go before i fly it. I got the idle as low as 1500(almost to slow) and at 15 minute intervals i would open it up all the way for about 5 seconds. I got 7000 by 30 minutes and at the hour mark i was 7150. That is more than i could ask for being that the engine is new and i have not touched the carb at all.
07-25-2008, 09:23 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: Bob Pastorello
Wally world has done the same thing.
Wonder whazzup wid dat?
Wally world has done the same thing.
Wonder whazzup wid dat?
Wal-mart has not lowered thier price here yet.
07-25-2008, 09:41 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
craigteffe it is mounted to the airframe. As for the heat i would have thought that with the cowl off and the prop pushing air over the head that it would cool fine. The oil is lawnboy ashless at 32-1
07-25-2008, 09:44 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: skillet92
craigteffe it is mounted to the airframe. As for the heat i would have thought that with the cowl off and the prop pushing air over the head that it would cool fine. The oil is lawnboy ashless at 32-1
craigteffe it is mounted to the airframe. As for the heat i would have thought that with the cowl off and the prop pushing air over the head that it would cool fine. The oil is lawnboy ashless at 32-1
The very best breaking in after that "initial" tweaking run on the ground, occurs in the AIR, with lots of throttle changing, lots of airspeed changing and LOTS of airflow.
Fact.
07-25-2008, 09:47 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
I am learning to use my DL50 on a Nosen Giant Stick. I can't seem to reduce the low and mid range burble no matter how much I lean out the low end. Seems to run best at slightly over 1 turn out on low. At 1 turn low it quit at mid throttle right after take off. High is adjusted slightly below peak rpm. Transitions well, just burbles a lot. Seems to me I have the needles very lean although the plug does not indicate that.
I am using the stock stand off and the firewall is flat.
Now I am wondering if I may be starving the carb for air. Anyone had experience with this issue?
I am using the stock stand off and the firewall is flat.
Now I am wondering if I may be starving the carb for air. Anyone had experience with this issue?
07-25-2008, 09:51 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
It's far more likely that your specific carb on THAT specific engine has the inlet needle lever inside the carb improperly set. There have been examples where the symptom you report have been absolutely cured by re-adjusting of that lever. If you're not familiar with it, I would contact your seller, and see about trying a "known good" carb to isolate it.
The metering needle lever CAN create exactly the problem you're reporting.
The metering needle lever CAN create exactly the problem you're reporting.
07-25-2008, 09:52 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
So should i not do the other hour on the ground or just adjust it a little bit and go ahead and fly it. I am only following the instructions the came with the engine. I kept feeling the cooling fins and it did not seem that it was over heating.
07-25-2008, 10:00 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
If you aren't overheating it on the ground, it will not hurt to have more run time, if you want to do that.
I think craigteffe and others are doing the same as I am, and that is assuming that **usually** folks really DO overheat new engines on ground runs, and we're cautioning to prevent that from happening to you.
If you are managing the heat appropriately, not making high throttle more than short spurts.... you probably will NOT harm the engine.
It's just that I think we've all seen folks who mean well accidentally overheat and sometimes ruin a nearly new engine because they want to see how much guts it has on the ground.
Sounds like you are being careful and watching things; my .02 about that is that you should go ahead and press on with it like you're doing. Just be careful to NOT let it get hot, you should be good to go.
Others may have different opinions..... there are lots of ways to make these things work for us.
I think craigteffe and others are doing the same as I am, and that is assuming that **usually** folks really DO overheat new engines on ground runs, and we're cautioning to prevent that from happening to you.
If you are managing the heat appropriately, not making high throttle more than short spurts.... you probably will NOT harm the engine.
It's just that I think we've all seen folks who mean well accidentally overheat and sometimes ruin a nearly new engine because they want to see how much guts it has on the ground.
Sounds like you are being careful and watching things; my .02 about that is that you should go ahead and press on with it like you're doing. Just be careful to NOT let it get hot, you should be good to go.
Others may have different opinions..... there are lots of ways to make these things work for us.
07-25-2008, 10:03 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: rctom
Guys:
I have not read this entire thread, it's too long. Could somebody please answer this?
Is this typical power from a DL-50? I have seen numbers all over the board. Testing procedures vary wildly so I never know who to believe.
TF
ORIGINAL: BOUND_4_HELL
With Xoar 22x8 was turning 7200 and pulling 25 lbs of thrust @ 1200 ASL and 74 F
With Xoar 23x8 it's turning 6700 and pulling 26¼ lbs of thrust @ 1200 ASL and 74 F
With Xoar 22x8 was turning 7200 and pulling 25 lbs of thrust @ 1200 ASL and 74 F
With Xoar 23x8 it's turning 6700 and pulling 26¼ lbs of thrust @ 1200 ASL and 74 F
I have not read this entire thread, it's too long. Could somebody please answer this?
Is this typical power from a DL-50? I have seen numbers all over the board. Testing procedures vary wildly so I never know who to believe.
TF
Hi Tom,
Here is how I tested the DL50.
The RPM'S are fairly accurate, my meter may bounce around by 20 RPM. With the Xoar 22x8 the meter was reading 7200 to 7220 RPM. With the Xoar 23x8 it was reading 6690 to 6700 RPM
The thrust readings may or may not be accurate, as I'm using a 50 lbs digital fish scale and did not verify its accuracy with dead weights. Also the digital fish scale bounces around within a ¾ lbs range ( it's not a steady number) I post the reading in the middle of the range.
The two readings can be compared to each other, as I measured both props the same way.
Geppino
07-25-2008, 10:23 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: Bob Pastorello
It's far more likely that your specific carb on THAT specific engine has the inlet needle lever inside the carb improperly set. There have been examples where the symptom you report have been absolutely cured by re-adjusting of that lever. If you're not familiar with it, I would contact your seller, and see about trying a "known good" carb to isolate it.
The metering needle lever CAN create exactly the problem you're reporting.
It's far more likely that your specific carb on THAT specific engine has the inlet needle lever inside the carb improperly set. There have been examples where the symptom you report have been absolutely cured by re-adjusting of that lever. If you're not familiar with it, I would contact your seller, and see about trying a "known good" carb to isolate it.
The metering needle lever CAN create exactly the problem you're reporting.
Thanks for the info.
07-25-2008, 11:10 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
Hi jjcollett.
I had the same exact problem you are describing and Bob suggested the metering leaver adjustment. The adjustment did the trick for me, it took 7 tries, but I found that it was not difficult to do. But as Bob suggests if you are not comfortable doing this adjustment you may be able to talk your engine seller into a new carb.
If you have questions about the adjustment you can PM me and I will try and help you as much as I can. The article I followed is here.
http://www.geocities.com/farellus/idle_adaptation.html
A couple of tips I can give you now >> be very very careful with the little spring it is very squirrelly and will zing out or your fingers fairly easy. I lost mine for about 5 minutes on one adjustment; I was lucky to find it. After that experience, I left the metering leaver and the spring attached to the carb base. I used two very tiny screwdrivers to bend the leaver into the correct position; you need to be very careful using the tiny screwdrivers, as you may damage the pop off needle, if you putt too much pressure on it.
If you set the metering leaver too low you may run the float cavity dry and your engine will quit. Run it on the ground at full throttle for a couple of minutes to see if it will run without running out of gas, be careful not to overheat your engine.
Also do a spark plug test to see if you are running to lean.
Good luck with it
Geppino
ORIGINAL: BOUND_4_HELL
Thanks for the suggestion Bob, the metering leaver pop off pressure turned out to be my problem with my DL50. I did not have a gage so I used the trial and error method. It took me 7 tries and probably would not have gotten it correctly if I had not read the article below on Walbro Carburetors.
It turns out that the needle leaver needs to be lower than the carb base. Mine was at the same height as the base and running rich causing the mid range burble and a lot of mis-fires. I was making adjustments to the leaver a few thousands at a time and getting nowhere. Once I read the article and set the leaver below the base by what looked to my eye about 2 mm give or take, it ran like a top, all the burble and misses are gone. It idles and accelerate a lot better as well, and an added bonus >> I get a couple of extra flight minutes out of my tank.
I also did a spark plug test by running full throttle for a minute and shutting it off. Then I removed the plug and now it's a perfect tan colour.
Thanks
Geppino
Here are the instructions and a photo from the article.
http://www.geocities.com/farellus/idle_adaptation.html
The Metering System is very simple: It consists of a pivoting lever working like a seesaw with a spring on one side and an Inlet Needle (with a red rubber tip valve) on the other.
If you don't have the pressure-testing tool, don't worry, just make sure you clean the carb, blow it dry and use new diaphragms & gaskets and set the Metering Lever height; The resulting pop-off and reseat pressure will be functional as long as you don't damage or modify the Metering Spring:
1) Don't deform or cut the small Metering Spring. If in doubt, replace it with Walbro part Walbro part # 98-320-7 (OEM # 503 28 12-18; WG8 carburetor).
2) Set the Metering Lever at the correct height as explained below.
The height of the Metering Lever on any diaphragm carburetor is critical for controlling when and how far the inlet needle 'pops' open, thus configuring the engine's acceleration characteristics. If the Metering Lever height is set too high, it may create a rich condition, while a Metering Lever set too low may create a lean condition. The height of the Metering Lever must be 1.7 mm or 0.067" (WG carbs) and 1.45 mm or 0.057" (WB carbs) below the edge of the carburetor body. Walbro sells a calibrated brass plate gage to be used as depth meter (Walbro item # 500-13-1) available through most power tool shops.
ORIGINAL: Bob Pastorello
Gep - your procedure sounds like it's fine, and should be getting you where you need to be.
I'd contact your seller, and see if you can get a different complete CARB to try. Unless you want to dig into it and start troubleshooting the "pop off" pressure on the metering needle lever assembly.
Unless you are experienced with setting that lever, I don't recommend going there; you can end up with a carb that doesn't run at all, and risk the seller saying "you did it".
PM me.
Gep - your procedure sounds like it's fine, and should be getting you where you need to be.
I'd contact your seller, and see if you can get a different complete CARB to try. Unless you want to dig into it and start troubleshooting the "pop off" pressure on the metering needle lever assembly.
Unless you are experienced with setting that lever, I don't recommend going there; you can end up with a carb that doesn't run at all, and risk the seller saying "you did it".
PM me.
Thanks for the suggestion Bob, the metering leaver pop off pressure turned out to be my problem with my DL50. I did not have a gage so I used the trial and error method. It took me 7 tries and probably would not have gotten it correctly if I had not read the article below on Walbro Carburetors.
It turns out that the needle leaver needs to be lower than the carb base. Mine was at the same height as the base and running rich causing the mid range burble and a lot of mis-fires. I was making adjustments to the leaver a few thousands at a time and getting nowhere. Once I read the article and set the leaver below the base by what looked to my eye about 2 mm give or take, it ran like a top, all the burble and misses are gone. It idles and accelerate a lot better as well, and an added bonus >> I get a couple of extra flight minutes out of my tank.
I also did a spark plug test by running full throttle for a minute and shutting it off. Then I removed the plug and now it's a perfect tan colour.
Thanks
Geppino
Here are the instructions and a photo from the article.
http://www.geocities.com/farellus/idle_adaptation.html
The Metering System is very simple: It consists of a pivoting lever working like a seesaw with a spring on one side and an Inlet Needle (with a red rubber tip valve) on the other.
If you don't have the pressure-testing tool, don't worry, just make sure you clean the carb, blow it dry and use new diaphragms & gaskets and set the Metering Lever height; The resulting pop-off and reseat pressure will be functional as long as you don't damage or modify the Metering Spring:
1) Don't deform or cut the small Metering Spring. If in doubt, replace it with Walbro part Walbro part # 98-320-7 (OEM # 503 28 12-18; WG8 carburetor).
2) Set the Metering Lever at the correct height as explained below.
The height of the Metering Lever on any diaphragm carburetor is critical for controlling when and how far the inlet needle 'pops' open, thus configuring the engine's acceleration characteristics. If the Metering Lever height is set too high, it may create a rich condition, while a Metering Lever set too low may create a lean condition. The height of the Metering Lever must be 1.7 mm or 0.067" (WG carbs) and 1.45 mm or 0.057" (WB carbs) below the edge of the carburetor body. Walbro sells a calibrated brass plate gage to be used as depth meter (Walbro item # 500-13-1) available through most power tool shops.
07-25-2008, 11:44 AM
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RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: BOUND_4_HELL
Hi Tom,
Here is how I tested the DL50.
The RPM'S are fairly accurate, my meter may bounce around by 20 RPM. With the Xoar 22x8 the meter was reading 7200 to 7220 RPM. With the Xoar 23x8 it was reading 6690 to 6700 RPM
The thrust readings may or may not be accurate, as I'm using a 50 lbs digital fish scale and did not verify its accuracy with dead weights. Also the digital fish scale bounces around within a ¾ lbs range ( it's not a steady number) I post the reading in the middle of the range.
The two readings can be compared to each other, as I measured both props the same way.
Geppino
Hi Tom,
Here is how I tested the DL50.
The RPM'S are fairly accurate, my meter may bounce around by 20 RPM. With the Xoar 22x8 the meter was reading 7200 to 7220 RPM. With the Xoar 23x8 it was reading 6690 to 6700 RPM
The thrust readings may or may not be accurate, as I'm using a 50 lbs digital fish scale and did not verify its accuracy with dead weights. Also the digital fish scale bounces around within a ¾ lbs range ( it's not a steady number) I post the reading in the middle of the range.
The two readings can be compared to each other, as I measured both props the same way.
Geppino
If this is accurate then the 3MM TOC-53 is right in there with the DL-50, it might even have a bit more zing. With the hop-up kit installed I'm getting 7350 on a Bunny 22-8 which is the same as a Xoar, and 6800+ on a Vess 23-a.
But some people quote much higher numbers for the DL and I'm trying to get rational readings. I own a couple DL-50s but have not had time to mess around with them, maybe I should have a runoff with TOC-53, DL-50 and MT-57. I own all of them, maybe a side by side comparison would be worth a couple days of my time.
TF
07-25-2008, 12:51 PM
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RE: DL-50 engine
ORIGINAL: jjcollett
I am learning to use my DL50 on a Nosen Giant Stick. I can't seem to reduce the low and mid range burble no matter how much I lean out the low end. Seems to run best at slightly over 1 turn out on low. At 1 turn low it quit at mid throttle right after take off. High is adjusted slightly below peak rpm. Transitions well, just burbles a lot. Seems to me I have the needles very lean although the plug does not indicate that.
I am using the stock stand off and the firewall is flat.
Now I am wondering if I may be starving the carb for air. Anyone had experience with this issue?
I am learning to use my DL50 on a Nosen Giant Stick. I can't seem to reduce the low and mid range burble no matter how much I lean out the low end. Seems to run best at slightly over 1 turn out on low. At 1 turn low it quit at mid throttle right after take off. High is adjusted slightly below peak rpm. Transitions well, just burbles a lot. Seems to me I have the needles very lean although the plug does not indicate that.
I am using the stock stand off and the firewall is flat.
Now I am wondering if I may be starving the carb for air. Anyone had experience with this issue?
07-25-2008, 01:07 PM
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RE: DL-50 engine
Sorry, I should have been clear on my question...What I'm concerned about is applying to high of a voltage to the ignition and having it fail in the long run.
So is it ok to use a 6.6v A123 pack with the ignition that comes with the DL50?
So is it ok to use a 6.6v A123 pack with the ignition that comes with the DL50?