RC Extreme power

My Feedback: (24)

6mm the same as the muffler bolts.

Milton

Berwyn Bill

My Feedback: (16)

Thanks Milton. I think its a thread issue. The bolts the area 51 stand-offs need are a finer threading than the DA-50s. I'll pick some up tomorrow.

SportFlyer3

What is the thread pitch of the bolts for the firewall...6mm X what pitch ?

FLPilot

My Feedback: (23)

6mm x .8 pitch. Standard 6mm thread.

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

Fact.

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

And other than "designer's choice", no need for those standoffs to be a different thread on the firewall end. They have to be drilled and tapped regardless; would make installs more friendly if they were 5mm, for sure. But then, having a mounting footprint to match the DA would be a good change, too.

Push 'em, Milton... those are two things that can impact sales. (Plus rotating the carb 180*, so it matches the "DA/DL" "convention")

Wish I could be out there flying mine, but so far, "Fall" is in the way.

FLPilot

My Feedback: (23)

Bob, I agree!

I used DL standoffs on both engines at 5mm to remain standard on mounting. They also have a square end I put to the firewall side to enable tightening with a flat wrench.

Works great.

Not much one can do on the muffler bolts.

One diameter on all the engine bolts would be a very good thing.

DR

miniman

Sorry guys but I totally dissagree.

Many models now have glass firewalls, my sukhoi is a good example. The glass fire walls need the load spread as much as posible, the 6mm bolt really help with this and it one of the reasons I chose this motor over a DL50.

Having 6mm bolts does not detract from the motor in any way, apart from about 3 grams per bolt, 12 grams in total.

Please dont mess around with a sucsessful package.

Peter

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

Disagreement is a good thing...if we agree, one of us isn't needed. However, your statement about "glass firewalls" is a little misleading. The fact is that the VAST majority of 50cc-class airframes are Chinese plywood/engine box ARFs....no glass there at all. One of the main reasons I'm suggesting interchangeability is to "convert" the DA 50 user to "try" the Area 51. Fact is, whether or not anyone wants to agree about it, the DA 50 is "the" standard in 50cc class engines. Getting those guys to convert is what creates success. That is exactly what happened with the DL 50. Read some of the early posts on that thread. The momentum for the DL 50 was largely generated because someone could choose the DL *instead of* the DA.

I'm simply suggesting that JC Engines get on board with that reality of the market. It's not a personal thing.

miniman

So what your saying is not only to change the 6mm bolt to 5mm, but to also change the entire footprint to copy the DL50.

No offence but this is crazy, the Area 51 footprint is far better at distributing load over the fire wall. The DL50 is too narrow and causes flex in light weight wood and Glass fire walls.

You seam to asking for a clone of a DA50 rather than have a better motor, if you want to sell a product you NEVER compare the similarities, always the advantages. Similarities mean its the same, the stronger mount on the Area 51 is a masive advantage you are about to "give away" I have seen several posts on other forums where DL50 owners are asking for the manufacturer to toughen the mount like the Area 51, noy you want it the same?

AS for Glass firewalls. Yes the cheap and dirty models from China are using lightweight wooden firewalls, and most need to be pinned and reinforced, so any help would be usefull with these models. The new low cost composite airfames starting to come out of China all have glass firewalls, that need wide spread engine mounts, or a sandwich of metal plates if the bolts are too far in the centre.

The Area 51 motor is a good deal better than the DL50 in many ways, quality and design being the most important. To say you want the motor changed to meet the cheap and dirty end of the market is saying to the people who want quality motors, the Area 51 is cheap and dirty.

IT IS NOT

Difference is good as long as it does not stop the motor being used, and I have not seen a model designed for a 50cc motor, that the Area 51 does not fit.

Dont undersell a great product, just push the advantages.

Peter

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

Peter - bantering between us won't help the purpose of this thread, so I resign the game. Thanks for sharing your views.

The Area 51 is a great engine, no doubt.

miniman

So as long as people agree it OK to post, but if you dont agree dont post? [X(]

Peter

craigteffe

My Feedback: (24)

I am going to throw my .02 in here and agree with Bob. I have 2 DL's and a Da they all interchange, I have been keeping up with this thread and have considered this engine and the things that keep me from purchasing this engine is the Long spark plug-I would like to see the CM6 plug so that it will fit in tighter places.

The engine bolt pattern would be better if it could be interchanged between the DA/DL because i don't want to plug and redrill.

The carb orientation would be better suited if it were like the DA/DL, if I could just swap them out I would have already bought one.

If they would build build a better muffler, it looks just like the Dl which have been giving trouble.

As for me I think that Da is the standard. Building an engine with a wider stance gives less room to mount things, I have no problem with nor have i had any problems with the the current DA/DL bolt pattern. This is what most manufactures build their planes to, ever seen a Area 51 with the laser marked fire wall?

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

I wish all 50cc engines were the same foot print and carb orientation, and yes wider is better for less vibration. And keep in mind that if you rotate the carb you could induce new problems, just ask DA. Change sometimes has a price.

FLPilot

My Feedback: (23)

I have attached a composite mounting template for the DA50, DL50 and Area 51. It is reasonably accurate.

The differences between these engines are minor to say the least. It would not appear there is enough difference to worry about structural issues.

Any engine manufacture entering the market place today, must have available aftermarket parts; prop drill guides, mufflers, headers, etc. in order to be successful.
This was certainly the case with the DL50.

Standards are a good thing. I used DL50 standoffs on my A51 simply because I have a supply of 5mm x .8 bolts in the parts cabinet. They are entirely adequate, as proven by the success of the DL50.

I went through the break-in exercise today at my local field for my A51. First questions asked by others; what is it, is it a drop in for the DL/DA50. I have a second A51 to break-in as well.

It only took about 60 minutes to mount the A51 where my DL was once mounted. Not a big deal. Milton rotated the carb for me prior to shipping. However, a drop-in, no drilling fit would have been nice and certainly would be a key selling point.

I would like a header for the A51, but I am not interested in milling out a DA header to fit!!!!! Most other folks aren’t interested in that kind of effort either. And once done, resale would be difficult.

My .02

DR

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

Lol, they are close enough that you always have to drill partially through a dowel.

Also, no template will be exact. Even engines of the same brand and model with their stand offs are different by some thousanths if not more. The template is just a starting point. I always have to ream one or more of the holes even with a template.

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

Joe, as one who "had to drill partially through a dowel", you are absolutely correct, and the whole dowel, glue, re measure, re-drill, deal is a PITA.

And anyone who has had to change standoffs, or re-drill cowl mountings can also tell the tale of "the fun of retrofitting" (NOT).....but hey, if we didn't have to do all this putzing around, we'd be missing a little of the fun, wouldn't we????

At any rate, putzing around aside, the A 51 so far has been worth the effort to me.

RC Extreme power

My Feedback: (24)

I have had pros and cons about the mounting pattern, Yes I think it could be a good idea to match the other two engines patterns but then I am a little like Bob, The wider stance does help on the vibration, I know there is another engine out there that the stance is real close together and it makes a plane sake more.
Kevin has made all the modifications I have asked him to do but this one. Back in September or October can not remember which month it was when I got the first proto type I said something to him about making it match a DA or DL and I think I insulted him, His answer was that he did not make DL and did not make DA he made his engine, Believe it or not he deigned this engine from the ground up but we are still talking about the pattern and who knows what will happen ????

Now on the mufflers, I don’t know why some of them have started to fail, It has only been in the last month that it has happened , Joe pointed out the fact that the mounting part of the muffler is not flat and I have started to mill them here with the ones I have and the Factory has been notified and say that will take care of it in the future.
There are three in our club that I know have over 50 flight with no problems, Maybe some bad ones just got through.

Headers
I can get the flex headers form China but would like to make sure they are going to hold up before I do that, Others are using them and just waiting to see how well they do, I have Emailed KS two times about making them but have not heard back form them so I am guessing they do not want to do it.

There is someone I know working on trying to get some hard headers form China but know that will be months down the road.

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

Good reply, Milton. Thanks.
I want to add an injector; usually I just add a spot of alumaweld on the center of the end cap. Are these just painted mufflers?

RC Extreme power

My Feedback: (24)

Yes they are painted, Later I will take a picture of one sent back to me that was in a crash and is just about cut in half and none of the joints failed, That is what really has me confused about some of them failing.

milton

jc engine

Hello,everybody !

i am kevin from JC ENGINE,i heard some friends want to change A51's mount screws.so i really want to help you,please advice which one is your choose 5mm or 6mm ? when i got result i will immediately to change it,waitting for your news,thanks a lot !

kevin

JC ENGINE

www.jcengine.com

jc engine

Hello everyone !

sorry,i forgot a very importance thing to tell you. now my A51 and A51-102's mounting pattern to changed to same as DA, about detail informations ,please contact Milton(US agent).

another,about 102's mounting pattern i will post some pictures on RCU .hope in this weekend.

many thanks !

kevin

JC ENGINE

www.jcengine.com

RC Extreme power

My Feedback: (24)

Here are a couple of pictures of the crashed muffler, looks like if it could withstand this it could handle anyting, But like I posted above maybe some bad ones got through and failed.

Milton

RC Extreme power

My Feedback: (24)

You guys ask and Kevins listens, you have more power than me

Milton

Super08

My Feedback: (2)

Wow talk about a pipeline right to the source. Not very often you get a response right from the designer of a product like that. Very impressive.