Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
03-08-2005, 03:05 PM
#2901
Senior Member
My Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston,
TX
Posts: 419
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
What many of you have failed to realize is that there are multiple issues with the airframes... Some have the stab tube out of alignment, either left or right... Some have the wing tube out of alignment, either left or right... On some the verticle fin is out of alignment... Most complain that the mounting holes for the canopies don't align properly...
No "instructional video" is going to provide enough insight on how to correct every problem that has cropped up with this first batch of Yaks...
Sure, we can dremel the tube mounting points and re-glue them so we have a square airframe, but what is that going to do to the openings in the sides of the fuse where the wings slide in, or to the blind nut mounting points for the horizontal stab???
If I had wanted to take the time to build a kit, I would have done so... My goal was to get a Ferrari with minimal effort from a building perspective... Personally, I would rather fly than build...
Maybe this is all related to working out the kinks in the first production run of this model, which is to be expected to a certain degree... I would have hoped that the final QC process would have caught most of these issues prior to placing product in customer's hands...
After all the talk and chest-beating about how EF rejected the first batch of "poor quality" Yaks at great personal sacrifice, it appears that the quality issue is biting EF is the ass again...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not dogging Chris or EF... Certain things are outside of our controll when you involve manufacturers on the other side of the planet... I commend Chris for attempting to rectify the situation...
But I still want a straight airframe...
Mark
No "instructional video" is going to provide enough insight on how to correct every problem that has cropped up with this first batch of Yaks...
Sure, we can dremel the tube mounting points and re-glue them so we have a square airframe, but what is that going to do to the openings in the sides of the fuse where the wings slide in, or to the blind nut mounting points for the horizontal stab???
If I had wanted to take the time to build a kit, I would have done so... My goal was to get a Ferrari with minimal effort from a building perspective... Personally, I would rather fly than build...
Maybe this is all related to working out the kinks in the first production run of this model, which is to be expected to a certain degree... I would have hoped that the final QC process would have caught most of these issues prior to placing product in customer's hands...
After all the talk and chest-beating about how EF rejected the first batch of "poor quality" Yaks at great personal sacrifice, it appears that the quality issue is biting EF is the ass again...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not dogging Chris or EF... Certain things are outside of our controll when you involve manufacturers on the other side of the planet... I commend Chris for attempting to rectify the situation...
But I still want a straight airframe...
Mark
03-08-2005, 03:29 PM
#2903
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
ORIGINAL: wgeffon
I have to disagree...
IMO, 3D is the last place you'd see any negative effects from a low stab / Crooked fuse etc..
3D flight is slow.
Trim, Incidence, warped surfaces etc wont show up untill the airplane is at a constant, moderate speed.
I have flown some awesome 3D planes that were so messed up as far as throws, incidence, thrust angles it would make you sick.
The only times the negative effects show up on those planes is when the plane is flying with speed.
Perfect example is I flew 35% a few weeks ago. The planes owner is someone who 3D's that plane as good as anyone out there. He makes it look awesome when he's flipping and flopping it.
I tried to fly some sequence stuff with it and thought there was something wrong. I landed and started to look over things.. NOTHING was set up correctly.
All I am trying to say is that stuff like this doesnt show up in 3D.
ORIGINAL: bodyworks
......and FORGET about any type of controlled 3D flight...no Walls, no Elevators, no Harriers, etc
......and FORGET about any type of controlled 3D flight...no Walls, no Elevators, no Harriers, etc
I have to disagree...
IMO, 3D is the last place you'd see any negative effects from a low stab / Crooked fuse etc..
3D flight is slow.
Trim, Incidence, warped surfaces etc wont show up untill the airplane is at a constant, moderate speed.
I have flown some awesome 3D planes that were so messed up as far as throws, incidence, thrust angles it would make you sick.
The only times the negative effects show up on those planes is when the plane is flying with speed.
Perfect example is I flew 35% a few weeks ago. The planes owner is someone who 3D's that plane as good as anyone out there. He makes it look awesome when he's flipping and flopping it.
I tried to fly some sequence stuff with it and thought there was something wrong. I landed and started to look over things.. NOTHING was set up correctly.
All I am trying to say is that stuff like this doesnt show up in 3D.
I am new to 3D as I have been out of the hobby for the past 3 years, so I will still be doing a lot of "regular" aerobatics where a straight airframe is more important. I have emailed Chris and requested a new fuse, even if I have to wait, and I will remain a faithful customer, although I am a relatively new one
03-08-2005, 03:32 PM
#2904
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Buford,
GA
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
As I said before, if your fuselage is not fixable to your satisfaction, I will replace it with a new one. I will inspect every airplane that leaves our shop. It is your choice if you want to do the fix yourself or if you want a new fuselage. I will do whatever it takes to satisfy my customers. Just give me a chance.
03-08-2005, 03:40 PM
#2906
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boyertown ,
PA
Posts: 1,073
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
Come on guys, you're being mean to a very kind and caring gentleman, He is just trying make everyone happy but nothing can happen in 10 seconds, besides, it's winter anyway, it's not like if you wait a few extra days you're missing really great flying days, (this message goes mostly to Dave =763 or whatever numbers it is)
Chris is doing alot more then any other company would do, so he deserves respect.
I am straight btw lol that's jsut to lighten the mood,
And i haven't said it yet, but Congratulations Chris on the engagement!!! And you are doing some incredibly nice htings by fixing these. I am going to check mine now, and if it's crooked, oh well, im not good enough of a flyer to tell the difference. Plus I don't want to take up chris's time of shipping out other yaks by makin him fix mine, ill wait till he's got some down time, which might not be a while, but oh well.
Also,
If i flew the airplane, would it still be eligible for the replaced fuselage? if not, ill wait to fly if it's crooked.
Way to go Chris!!
Scott
Chris is doing alot more then any other company would do, so he deserves respect.
I am straight btw lol that's jsut to lighten the mood,
And i haven't said it yet, but Congratulations Chris on the engagement!!! And you are doing some incredibly nice htings by fixing these. I am going to check mine now, and if it's crooked, oh well, im not good enough of a flyer to tell the difference. Plus I don't want to take up chris's time of shipping out other yaks by makin him fix mine, ill wait till he's got some down time, which might not be a while, but oh well.
Also,
If i flew the airplane, would it still be eligible for the replaced fuselage? if not, ill wait to fly if it's crooked.
Way to go Chris!!
Scott
03-08-2005, 04:01 PM
#2907
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Rochester,
NY
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
OK ...I'm getting happy again. I clamped the engine box to a saw horse, clamped a plastic level to the rear of the fuse and I twisted the tail to the right, misted the inside of the plane with a little water, dried it with a heat gun reshrunk the covering and presto a straight fuse! I think I'll keep it now.
03-08-2005, 04:14 PM
#2909
Senior Member
My Feedback: (51)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ashland, KY
Posts: 5,833
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
I certainly understand your disappointment. I don't think anyone with this issue isn't disappointed to some degree.
I didn't say I'd fly it like that, I said I would do the mod and then fly it. I can't see your pic very well, but it looks like the fin is canted to the left 1/2 a hinge hole.
I look at my fin and from my eye's perspective I don't see any problem. I'm not going to setup an elaborate plumb bob & digital level test bed to determine if it's a half hole off. If I did that I doubt I'd be able to fly any ARF.
No it's not perfect. Could I make it perfect? Yes. Would I go through the trouble? No. I do not think that much of a fin misalignment will cause much more than a click of mixing to eliminate added coupling.
Now this is not to infer that this will remain the quality of these ARF's... nor that anyone should expect less than perfect. I suspect there's a few chinese arf builder's searching for buttocks right now and that this one flaw is fixed.
My point is you have been given an opportunity to either get a replacement fuse or take a $100 discount, fix it then fly it sooner.
For me... I'll fix it and fly it. Because I honestly think this will eb the best flying plane I've owned to date. It would be a shame if you miss out on it.
I didn't say I'd fly it like that, I said I would do the mod and then fly it. I can't see your pic very well, but it looks like the fin is canted to the left 1/2 a hinge hole.
I look at my fin and from my eye's perspective I don't see any problem. I'm not going to setup an elaborate plumb bob & digital level test bed to determine if it's a half hole off. If I did that I doubt I'd be able to fly any ARF.
No it's not perfect. Could I make it perfect? Yes. Would I go through the trouble? No. I do not think that much of a fin misalignment will cause much more than a click of mixing to eliminate added coupling.
Now this is not to infer that this will remain the quality of these ARF's... nor that anyone should expect less than perfect. I suspect there's a few chinese arf builder's searching for buttocks right now and that this one flaw is fixed.
My point is you have been given an opportunity to either get a replacement fuse or take a $100 discount, fix it then fly it sooner.
For me... I'll fix it and fly it. Because I honestly think this will eb the best flying plane I've owned to date. It would be a shame if you miss out on it.
ORIGINAL: Dave763
I am so disapointed I don't even want this plane now. Maudib, with all your fine attention to detail I am surprised to hear you say that it looks ok to you. Even more surprised to hear you say you would fly it like that.
I wish I had the time to build as this seems to be the only way to get a decent plane. Now I know why so many top pilots fly kits rather than arfs.
I am so disapointed I don't even want this plane now. Maudib, with all your fine attention to detail I am surprised to hear you say that it looks ok to you. Even more surprised to hear you say you would fly it like that.
I wish I had the time to build as this seems to be the only way to get a decent plane. Now I know why so many top pilots fly kits rather than arfs.
03-08-2005, 04:22 PM
#2911
Senior Member
My Feedback: (51)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ashland, KY
Posts: 5,833
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
That's good to hear... I actually was able to minimize mine to 1/2 it's original problem just with the covering alone.
Sounds like you have come up with a yet easier fix. I think once you fly it you'll be SOOOOOO glad you didn't sell it.
Sounds like you have come up with a yet easier fix. I think once you fly it you'll be SOOOOOO glad you didn't sell it.
ORIGINAL: Dave763
OK ...I'm getting happy again. I clamped the engine box to a saw horse, clamped a plastic level to the rear of the fuse and I twisted the tail to the right, misted the inside of the plane with a little water, dried it with a heat gun reshrunk the covering and presto a straight fuse! I think I'll keep it now.
OK ...I'm getting happy again. I clamped the engine box to a saw horse, clamped a plastic level to the rear of the fuse and I twisted the tail to the right, misted the inside of the plane with a little water, dried it with a heat gun reshrunk the covering and presto a straight fuse! I think I'll keep it now.
03-08-2005, 04:25 PM
#2912
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: so. barrington,
IL
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
OK....kidding or serious Dave? If you want the twist to stay untwisted don't you need to use water and amonia as a combo? Can you be a bit more specific as to how you did this as the fuse is really stiff.
Would it be possible to supply a few photos as to how this was accomplished or perhaps share it with Chris so he could supply some more detailed instructions/video? When you say you sprayed some water.....how much and in what area and for how long before re-twisting and for how long was the pressure and cure allowed to work? Lastly did you over correct or just go to the correct position...Thanks!
Would it be possible to supply a few photos as to how this was accomplished or perhaps share it with Chris so he could supply some more detailed instructions/video? When you say you sprayed some water.....how much and in what area and for how long before re-twisting and for how long was the pressure and cure allowed to work? Lastly did you over correct or just go to the correct position...Thanks!
03-08-2005, 04:25 PM
#2913
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Rochester,
NY
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
Such a easy fix I guess Chris can keep the hundred bucks. At least that fixed mine. Now when the wing tube is level so is the stab tube.
I think humidity and temp changes are what caused this.
I think humidity and temp changes are what caused this.
03-08-2005, 04:25 PM
#2914
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Independence,
KY
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
ORIGINAL: Dave763
I clamped the engine box to a saw horse, clamped a plastic level to the rear of the fuse and I twisted the tail to the right, misted the inside of the plane with a little water, dried it with a heat gun reshrunk the covering and presto a straight fuse!
I clamped the engine box to a saw horse, clamped a plastic level to the rear of the fuse and I twisted the tail to the right, misted the inside of the plane with a little water, dried it with a heat gun reshrunk the covering and presto a straight fuse!
03-08-2005, 04:45 PM
#2917
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Rochester,
NY
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
I used water and denatured alcohol. I misted the rear of the plane where all the stringers are. Not to sure how much, just till it looked wet. I twisted a little more than it needed, held it in place while I dried the wood with a heat gun and reshrunk the covering. It looks perfect now
ORIGINAL: matus777
OK....kidding or serious Dave? If you want the twist to stay untwisted don't you need to use water and amonia as a combo? Can you be a bit more specific as to how you did this as the fuse is really stiff.
Would it be possible to supply a few photos as to how this was accomplished or perhaps share it with Chris so he could supply some more detailed instructions/video? When you say you sprayed some water.....how much and in what area and for how long before re-twisting and for how long was the pressure and cure allowed to work? Lastly did you over correct or just go to the correct position...Thanks!
OK....kidding or serious Dave? If you want the twist to stay untwisted don't you need to use water and amonia as a combo? Can you be a bit more specific as to how you did this as the fuse is really stiff.
Would it be possible to supply a few photos as to how this was accomplished or perhaps share it with Chris so he could supply some more detailed instructions/video? When you say you sprayed some water.....how much and in what area and for how long before re-twisting and for how long was the pressure and cure allowed to work? Lastly did you over correct or just go to the correct position...Thanks!
03-08-2005, 04:47 PM
#2918
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Rochester,
NY
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
I should have got new ones. they are the same ones that were there when I bought the house. I can't see them from the flying field.
ORIGINAL: Ricmussman
INSTEAD OF BURNING THE PLANE, I THINK YOU SOULD BURN THOSE CURTAINS!
INSTEAD OF BURNING THE PLANE, I THINK YOU SOULD BURN THOSE CURTAINS!
03-08-2005, 04:58 PM
#2923
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Rochester,
NY
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
No I misted it from the inside.
ORIGINAL: SydDythers
Dave,
Did you peel back the covering and mist the wood and then reapply it?
Thanks
Dave,
Did you peel back the covering and mist the wood and then reapply it?
Thanks
03-08-2005, 05:02 PM
#2924
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 578
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
hmm..ok,
how'd you get at it with heat gun without burning the covering?
thanks!
how'd you get at it with heat gun without burning the covering?
thanks!
ORIGINAL: Dave763
No I misted it from the inside.
No I misted it from the inside.
ORIGINAL: SydDythers
Dave,
Did you peel back the covering and mist the wood and then reapply it?
Thanks
Dave,
Did you peel back the covering and mist the wood and then reapply it?
Thanks
03-08-2005, 05:06 PM
#2925
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Rochester,
NY
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
I kept it moving...be careful...maybe just let it dry on its own, might be safer.
ORIGINAL: SydDythers
hmm..ok,
how'd you get at it with heat gun without burning the covering?
thanks!
hmm..ok,
how'd you get at it with heat gun without burning the covering?
thanks!
ORIGINAL: Dave763
No I misted it from the inside.
No I misted it from the inside.
ORIGINAL: SydDythers
Dave,
Did you peel back the covering and mist the wood and then reapply it?
Thanks
Dave,
Did you peel back the covering and mist the wood and then reapply it?
Thanks