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Old 12-11-2017, 08:02 PM
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my 130T is on it's way to Colonial Beach, VA, I wonder what it's going to do when it gets there, will it fly, or will it be an admired beauty queen under glass ?? LOL

Jim
Old 12-11-2017, 09:24 PM
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see a Saito 100T Porn Video with a 14X10

LOL these guys are so funny LOL

Jim


Last edited by the Wasp; 12-11-2017 at 09:27 PM.
Old 12-12-2017, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Good morning Pete, or evening to you. I will cut and past the Bench Mark numbers for the 125 and the 115 that are shown over her at Horizon.

From the 125 specs:

Benchmark Prop:APC 16X6 @ 9000 rpm
Saito 115 specs===Benchmark Prop:APC 15 x 6 @8800 rpm
My own numbers for the newer 125 I bought are:
On 10% with 18% full synthetic and a Fox Miracle Plug.

Master Airscrew 16x6 Classic max rpm==9,025
Graupner Super Nylon 15x8 max rpm===8,885

I haven't tacked it with the C&H Ignition, I want to play with the timing a little. The timing is currently at Dan's recommended 35 degrees BTDC.

There was a time when Horizon stated that the rpm were obtained using 30% nitro methane fuel, they no longer state that and I wonder if it's because too many were taking that as gospel and that led to many on here saying that Saitos NEEDED 30% to run right. Which of course they don't need any nitro methane at all. Although they do respond to it very well.
Thanks for the explanation dave i don't look at horizons site.Re benchmark apc saito props the figures i used were out of the 115 and 125 saito manuals and the one's we get over here say that both engines use the same sizes for run in and full whack.I fly the 115 in a midget mustang with a 15x8 mas prop.It pulls around 8600 on the ground and can rip the prop tips in flight.As i've said before that sounds like a loud sonic boom...it's a yeehaa moment...bit like a pic of your missus holding a gun to your head next time would be great
Old 12-12-2017, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
Get ready for some serious power. I just bought an FA-220 with the 12mm carburetor "hop up kit" and Saito aluminum engine mount on e-bay. All NIB.

What do you think the power output of a high compression FA-220 with the 12mm carburetor & ported intake manifold will be?
I'm estimating a bit over 4 HP with 15% nitro.



OF please take notes.
Dang it! i am and if you don't start speaking nice to the folks around here next thing you know we'll be racing each other with our 115's so you take it easy now and have a lie down.
Old 12-12-2017, 04:19 AM
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Thanks Pete and Wasper, for anyone who might be interested Tower Hobbies is having a FREE/REDUCED shipping month, I know they don't have a lot of stuff for Saitos beyond OS-f plugs and Xoar and Master Airscrew props. They have a lot of items for the planes we put them on. Tower is employee owned now and in my opinion deserves our support.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 12-12-2017 at 07:02 AM. Reason: Add a word
Old 12-12-2017, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by the Wasp
my 130T is on it's way to Colonial Beach, VA, I wonder what it's going to do when it gets there, will it fly, or will it be an admired beauty queen under glass ?? LOL

Jim
It will go on a Hangar 9 Ultra Stick Lite replacing a Saito 1.50, the Stick has worn several engines over the years.
.
Old 12-12-2017, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
No sir, I haven't touched it because until today I hadn't thought about it much until I mentioned the future timing of the 115. So I got curious. It's easy to change, I'll try it a 30 just to get a feel for it.
.
I put a witness mark on the case & magnet ring (with C&H systems) to allow returning to the initial setting. With the Saito system you could make a mark on the Hall sensor holder & case. I have also calculated 4 degree increments using the circumference of the case snout and marking the case. Divide the circumference by 90 and that will give you the 4 degree distance. You can "split the difference" for 2 degree increments.

Since the Saito gassers have a locating pin on the crank to assure repeatability, you could make permanent marks on the case with a scribe or light center punch marks.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 12-12-2017 at 02:04 PM.
Old 12-12-2017, 07:01 AM
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Thanks Dan, and while mentioning C&H Ignitions, the C&H module makes a way hotter spark then the stock Saito Ignition. that is if you can judge by the audible crack made by the C&H unit. You have to watch really close to see and hear the Saito unit's spark.
Old 12-12-2017, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Thanks Dan, and while mentioning C&H Ignitions, the C&H module makes a way hotter spark then the stock Saito Ignition. that is if you can judge by the audible crack made by the C&H unit. You have to watch really close to see and hear the Saito unit's spark.
I use the "audible crack" of the C&H CDI to set my timing while I watch the degree wheel.

I screw a spark plug into my 4-way glow plug wrench for ease of handling, clip the spark lead to it and lay it on the bench. I rock the crank back & forth listening for the crack and observe where on the degree wheel it occurs. No buzzers or fancy smany led indicators.
Old 12-12-2017, 08:56 AM
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This just left Houston USPS.

FA-220, 12mm "Hop up kit", gasket set, Saito aluminum engine mount and 90 degree exhaust adapter. All NIB.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:35 AM
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This was my 2.20, John at IronBay was concerned that the IronBay regulator would not flow enough fuel for the 2.20 but it did and you could enrichen it down by about 100 rpm. Adrian now has it.

Yours looks good.
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Last edited by Hobbsy; 12-12-2017 at 09:39 AM. Reason: Spelling
Old 12-12-2017, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
I put a witness mark on the case & magnet ring (with C&H systems) to allow returning to the initial setting. With the Saito system you could make a mark on the Hall sensor holder & case. I have also calculated 4 degree increments using the circumference of the case snout and marking the case. Divide the circumference by 90 and that will give you the 4 degree distance. You can "split the difference" for 2 degree increments.

Since the Saito gassers have a locating pin on the crank to assure repeatability, you could make permanent marks on the case with a scribe or light center punch marks.
Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Thanks Dan, and while mentioning C&H Ignitions, the C&H module makes a way hotter spark then the stock Saito Ignition. that is if you can judge by the audible crack made by the C&H unit. You have to watch really close to see and hear the Saito unit's spark.
Dave, I edited my previous post to change "diameter" to "circumference".
Old 12-12-2017, 02:10 PM
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Thanks, I checked the timing on my 1.25, it is 35 dead on.
Old 12-12-2017, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
This was my 2.20, John at IronBay was concerned that the IronBay regulator would not flow enough fuel for the 2.20 but it did and you could enrichen it down by about 100 rpm. Adrian now has it.

Yours looks good.
If the "pump" needle valve is adjusted properly, the system is self regulating according to RPM. The trick is that the adjustment on the pump needle is counter intuitive. You screw the needle out to reduce fuel pressure thus leaning out the mixture. Another trick is to make sure the carburetor needle is adjusted properly at the factory recommended pump adjustment and then fine tuning fuel pressure for the best low speed response.
Old 12-13-2017, 03:12 AM
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My 2.20 came with no instructions, (for the pump) at the time, does your manual have those instructions? Thanks

I need someone with Saito .56 experience to share their prop numbers, I ran mine yesterday on 10% fuel with a Xoar 12x6 mounted.
Equipped with a brand new Saito cast/revised muffler.
Max rpm===10,240
Idle sweet===1,950 with brand new OS-f
I'll run a Turbo Header in a day or two.
Old 12-13-2017, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
My 2.20 came with no instructions, (for the pump) at the time, does your manual have those instructions? Thanks

I need someone with Saito .56 experience to share their prop numbers, I ran mine yesterday on 10% fuel with a Xoar 12x6 mounted.
Equipped with a brand new Saito cast/revised muffler.
Max rpm===10,240
Idle sweet===1,950 with brand new OS-f
I'll run a Turbo Header in a day or two.
My FA-300TTDP came with the pump and therefore instructions since the pump was original equipment. It never dawned on me when I purchased the 220 "Big Bore Hop Up Kit" for use on my FA-180HC that there were no instructions provided with it. That's not very good product support from Saito.

Something I'm interested in checking is the I D of the FA-220 intake manifold. The FA-220 takes the same 11mm carburetor as the FA-180. If the I D of the FA-220 manifold is 11mm like that of the FA-180, there will be little benefit in bolting a 12mm carburetor directly to the smaller manifold. I bored the FA-180 manifold out to 12mm up the the bend allowing a denser charge up to that point, leaving the last leg @ 11mm to increase velocity as it enters the port which is still the smaller diameter. If the port of the FA-220 is large enough and the manifold is 11mm I D I may enlarge it to 12mm all the way to the port. As always I will do modifications incrementally to gauge improvements or the lack thereof. If I reach a point with the manifold where performance deteriorates, I can replace the manifold and chalk up the expense to education.
Old 12-13-2017, 06:24 AM
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Dan, I searched the net and found the picture I took when I sold my 2.20, it came with an intake pipe,for each carb, I think the intake pipe for the large carb had an ID the same as the carb. My memory is not real clear on that though. Maybe Adrian at C&H would know.

Horizon actually has the large carb and pump system in stock. https://www.horizonhobby.com/fuel-pump-w-large-bore-carburetor%3A-ad--ae-sai220a150

And the intake pipe, no specs for either. https://www.horizonhobby.com/intake-...d-ae-sai220a69
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Last edited by Hobbsy; 12-13-2017 at 02:59 PM.
Old 12-13-2017, 09:57 AM
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I need someone with Saito .56 experience to share their prop numbers,

Dave, my Saito friend,,,check out my link, it should help

, https://www.youtube.com/user/dmrcfly...query=saito+56

Jim
Old 12-13-2017, 10:20 AM
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Thanks Jim, my 10,240 is right there using the Xoar.
Old 12-13-2017, 10:20 AM
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BTW, you guys talking Saito written RPM numbers,, something was not brought up about those numbers and I just want to remind you all, nothing was said about what Plugs were used, we know plugs make a big difference with peak RPM numbers so we should post what plug was used when giving numbers, this is in considering that Saitos are such special engines,, also a give plug will work slightly different with different brands of fuel with the same Nitro percent and different oil brands and weight,,
to note, with Magnum 20% 18% the OS 8 plug produced 500 RPM over the hotter OS 7 on my OS 61Fx (yes yes OF LOL, a nasty ol 2 stroke )

BTW, I made a snow man yesterday with my new daughter in-law, she has never seen snow before this winter, I wished so much that OF was there to help give suggestions, it would have help greatly

Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 12-13-2017 at 10:24 AM.
Old 12-13-2017, 10:27 AM
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I usually include the plug brand, previously it was always a Fox miracle, now it is always an OS-f butonly because the Fox's are no longer available.
Old 12-13-2017, 10:34 AM
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my 10,240 is right there using the Xoar.
sorry for the edit

see here, Saito tests numbers are with an APC, the Xoar of the same size and pitch pulls more air, therefor if you get close to the same numbers Saito reports you know you got a very good engine,, on my Magnum 180 Fr an APC 17X8 got me 8.800, while the Xoar of the same size got me 8.200,, the Xoar 17X6 "6" got me 8.600. all proving that the wood Xoars pulls more air

Zingers are very light and do unload more that other wood props, I don't know if they flex or not

Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 12-13-2017 at 10:59 AM.
Old 12-13-2017, 10:58 AM
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SrTelemaster150,, if you look at the West modified Magnum 4St (see my link) you will see that they use a short straight Intake manifold, with a non-Magnum Carb (looks like Perry to me),, I would bet that Manifold has a larger ID than the stock manifild,, if an Ironbay regulator is used I would think that setup should work on a Saito too

Jim
tuned by west

Last edited by the Wasp; 12-13-2017 at 11:57 AM.
Old 12-13-2017, 01:02 PM
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did you guys see this, considering that the Saito 125 is close to $400,,,,,,,,,

SAITO FT-270 TWIN ENGINE / CH IGNITION (ID: 1125050)

Jim
Old 12-13-2017, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by the Wasp
SrTelemaster150,, if you look at the West modified Magnum 4St (see my link) you will see that they use a short straight Intake manifold, with a non-Magnum Carb (looks like Perry to me),, I would bet that Manifold has a larger ID than the stock manifild,, if an Ironbay regulator is used I would think that setup should work on a Saito too

Jim
tuned by west
The 220 big bore hop up comes with a regulated pump. The carburetor could be located anywhere in relation to the fuel tank without need for any extra regulators.

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