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Old 03-15-2011, 11:07 AM
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I ran a couple of tanks of fuel through my Saito 65 yesterday with the new bearings installed and it ran great! I ran YS 20/20 with a scimitar 12x8 prop and achieved 10,600 rpm peaked, tuned to 10,400 rpm and idle as low as 2,300-400 rpm. That's the lowest idle I was able to maintain on this engine. I wonder if bearing resistance on the old set had anything to do with this (require a higher idle)? Idle to WOT response was instant even after extended idling.

Anyways, I have a couple questions.

1) What's the best rpm for this engine and given the data I posted, what prop would get me there? I know with some YS 4 strokes 9,000 is the WOT target rpm.

2) When I slowly advance power from idle to WOT there seems to be an area between 7,500 and 8,000 rpm that is non-linear in response. In other words, the engine sounds like it's out of tune and won't smoothly advance between 7,500 and 8,000 rpm. Has anyone else experienced this?
Old 03-15-2011, 03:13 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

A APC 13 X 6 would give you a lower idle
Old 03-15-2011, 07:16 PM
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13x6, I may try that but I'll have to check ground clearance first. How about high rpm, is 10.5k rpm fine? The manual lists 2k - 11.5k as the rpm range.
Old 03-15-2011, 07:36 PM
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It's going to do 10,000 with a 13 X 6

10.500 is OK but that is about the limit because they speed up in the air
Old 03-16-2011, 02:10 PM
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Olod Fart those Lipo things bother me especially when they double in size when you are using them.  The motor was silent and I was trying to coax it into life when I hit it, but for some reason it didn't work any way the substitute Saito 30 instead of that electric crap is infinitely more well behaved and as my mate says I am now back from the dark side.
Seriously though have you seen what some of those electric motors are capable of, the size of models they get aloft and the size of garage doors that they can demolish (not mine) causes the mind to boggle sometimes at their power.
Rain has almost gone away and we've had an eartquake (Scale 4) in sympathy with Japan but on the whole things are looking up so much I am going to check out a new flying field this w/end hope springs eternal and I can now get ready for the June SAM champs here in QLD not to mention getting the Saitos ready for the up coming comps just hope the roads hold up given all the rain etc 1700k's to and same in return is a fair way to go on crap infrastructure but what the hell you got to be in it to win don't you 
Old 03-16-2011, 02:20 PM
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Re the Saito 65 rpm queries.  Figures look good with 20% nitro.  In Texaco we aim for around 6,500 to 7,500 with a 14 x 8 or 15 x 8 prop and the same engine on 30% for Duration with a 13 x 6 we try for around 10, 500 to 12, 500 with emphasis on the later.  These are with APC props in Duration we look to using good quality (Bolly when you can find one) because you can count on another 500 + rpm.  My mentor has just commented on a "dog" 65 that just would not rev after a complete re build.  This engine had every thing that could be done to it carried out valve reseat, newring bearings the works but would not get above 9,000 rpm so it was consigned to the club trainer and after about (estimate only) 10 hours flying it was retuned to give 11000 on a 12 x 6 Master airscrew, it is now back in a Texaco model to be checked out for performance.  You could consider tha aspect as well  

Re the bearing thing, misaligned front and back bearings can give up to 1,000 rpm drop without outwardly affecting the engine.  Been there done that with both YS and Saito hence the manufacture of the special aligning tools, so your assumptions could be well correct.

Lastly RPM is effected also by out of balance props and balancing props is the easest thing to do
Old 03-16-2011, 03:48 PM
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Howdy mate agreed on the lipo's one club member lost a van and another his house.In large 3d models the current they draw would kill you,makes a prop strike look like a better deal

1700k's each way? you are keen,how many countries would you go thru in europe travelling that far? and spare a thought for our american cousins re the worsening crisis in japan the west coast may be affected
Old 03-16-2011, 09:44 PM
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Thanks for the input FNQFLYER. The printed rpm range for this engine is 2,000 - 11,500 rpm so I want to tone my engine down a bit. I'm gonna try an Evo 13x7 prop I have and see if that brings down the rpm and possibly a 13x8. It will be in a Kyosho P-40 so all out speed is not the goal for me. I'd say my bearings are fine now. It's a good runner.

Any pointers on balancing a plastic prop? I brush poly on wooden props but it seems there's only so much you can do on the plastic ones.

Old 03-16-2011, 11:42 PM
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No worries. Re the engine scale back to a fuel mix of 15% nitro and keep the 20% oil. With my models I look for a small smoke trail which means you are burning oil and to do that it has to go through the engine first which ensures lubrication and cooling and stay with the 13 sized props. Gen Saito said that if you listen the engine will tell you when it is happy.
Re the plastic prop, sand the back side of the heavy prop by hand. Depending on your patience level 200 grit or higher is ideal if you are impatient 180 or lower and be prepared to finish off with a finer grit. To then tidy (if required) I use a little paint on the light tip to achieve the desired result. Usually achieved by puttingon a little to much and sanding back.
prop balancing reduces / removes vibration and thus reducesdamage to the bearings and if you really want to be picky you balance the spinner / spinner nut seperate and then as an assembly with the prop. This process can give you up to a 500 RPM edge but I would suggest you don't really want to go that far
Trust that helps.
Old 03-16-2011, 11:50 PM
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Old Fart 1700 k's well actually closer to 1800 now I look at it is only 1/2 way when we go to Canowindra in NSW at Easter, but then you tend to do all sorts of stupid things win the pursuit of fun. Look at it this way 2 days each way to Brisbane,( I used to do that trip in 20 hrs straight when I was a little younger) and if I am going to Canowindra I over night in Brisbane and it is a long day (1200k's) to there. So 3 days to the NSW comp, one way, but the saver is they have some good ports in the area and at moderate prices and if Iam lucky I can swap some mangoes / rambutans for good stone fruit usually late season cherries.

The reason for the trips is to meet old friends and have some serious competition against the best in the country, great movitator and of course what Banna benderwouldn't want to squash acockaroach or boot a mexican in the bum given a chance.

Those Sherlock propsin WA have you heard anything about them?? I am looking forreplacementsfor my Boly props and maybe someone who can lay up some blanks to my specs the way Ed did for me, any info appreciated
Old 03-17-2011, 05:06 AM
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Re sherlock props asked at the club sunday drew a blank.Quickturn let us know how you end up with the 65 please.
Old 03-19-2011, 05:25 AM
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Guess I just joined the club, bought my first 4 cycle, a used Saito FA 80 in pristine condition. The original owner [hobby shop owner in Orlando FL] bought it in 1995 and just did not like it, probably the mid range running problems, so he stored it away until about a week ago and I bought it. It was very stiff due to the oil it was stored with and it took some Marvel oil and a little work to loosen her up. Started instantly and ran fine, used break in settings for the first 1/2 hour and then just ran it. As expected the full and idle throttle ran fine but mid range was a little ragged. Just received the needle valve upgrade and installed last night.

My questions:
Does the initial neddle valve setting change with the upgrade? Original manual calls for starting a 4 turns out from closed.
What props, am installing in a Great Planes Lancair 60?
Any does and don't?

Gary
Old 03-19-2011, 05:41 AM
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Roo Man: Fly the heck out of it. I have the Saito 82 in a Sig Somethin Extra and love it. Always my first flight of the season, just to get back in the thick of things. The upgrade should not change the initial settings. Just reset the HS/LS needles as needed to get the best run and then make it a little rich. Make sure your fuel has 18-20 percent lub.
Old 03-19-2011, 07:46 PM
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I just ordered a Saito FG-14B. I'm pretty excited. Plan to fly it in a 1/6 scale Pica Waco bipe kit I'm building. I plan to break it in on something different. This will be the first new saito I've owned.
Old 03-20-2011, 10:25 AM
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ORIGINAL: JohnB96041

Roo Man: Fly the heck out of it. I have the Saito 82 in a Sig Somethin Extra and love it. Always my first flight of the season, just to get back in the thick of things. The upgrade should not change the initial settings. Just reset the HS/LS needles as needed to get the best run and then make it a little rich. Make sure your fuel has 18-20 percent lub.
JohnB,

I have two SSE's my favorite, one has an OS 46 the other an Evolution 46.

Gary
Old 03-20-2011, 12:04 PM
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I've got 2 SSE's. One has an Evo .46NT. The other hasn't flown yet.

What prop do you use with the .82? Good ground clearance?
Old 03-20-2011, 02:08 PM
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ORIGINAL: blw

I've got 2 SSE's. One has an Evo .46NT. The other hasn't flown yet.

What prop do you use with the .82? Good ground clearance?
Not sure yet, am just installing on a Lancair 60.

Gary
Old 03-21-2011, 03:55 AM
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14x6 apc ground clearance depends on elevator position
Old 03-21-2011, 05:33 AM
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Roo, my guess is that your engine has the metal throttle arm, if so initially set the LS needle 1/16th" down inside the throttle barrel. Next stat the engine and get it limbered up, then set the HS needle at full peak and leave it there, throttle back to slowest idle you can get at this setting. Lean the LS needle 1/8th turn at a time checking the transition and top rpm after every other change. Be sure to keep lowering the idle speed as the leaner mixture improves it. At some point the engine will hesitate when you try to accelerate it, back out LS screw about 1/8th turn. Be willing to accept a few higher idle rpm in favor of the best transition.
Old 03-21-2011, 05:30 PM
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Roo, my guess is that your engine has the metal throttle arm, if so initially set the LS needle 1/16th'' down inside the throttle barrel. Next stat the engine and get it limbered up, then set the HS needle at full peak and leave it there, throttle back to slowest idle you can get at this setting. Lean the LS needle 1/8th turn at a time checking the transition and top rpm after every other change. Be sure to keep lowering the idle speed as the leaner mixture improves it. At some point the engine will hesitate when you try to accelerate it, back out LS screw about 1/8th turn. Be willing to accept a few higher idle rpm in favor of the best transition.
The manual I have says not to exceed 11,500 RPM's is this jhust for break in?

Gary
Old 03-21-2011, 05:36 PM
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Even after it is broken in
Old 03-21-2011, 06:27 PM
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OK it's not the preferred engine, but it's all I have. Will it safely power the plane? I do not do any fancy stuff, this would be basically scale flying.

HOBBSY, THANKS FOR THE INFO.

Gary
Old 03-21-2011, 06:28 PM
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I always liked a 13x4 WIDE prop with the Saito .82 / SSE combo. With the Dubro gear, ground clearance was never an issue What a HOG that engine / airplane combo is... I'm tempted to reaquire just because it's so fun & simple [8D]
Old 03-21-2011, 07:16 PM
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The 82 will pull a 14 X 4W
Old 03-21-2011, 07:40 PM
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Re RPM not exceed.  Now this is from a contest point of view
1/ Ensure engine is well run in
2/ Lean the engine out until you just have a smoke trail coming from the exhaust
3/ That's it,
In most cases engines are wrecked not by exceeding the manufacturers recommend max RPM but by runing to lean for to long  (engine overheats through lack of lubrication in our case, yes I know there are other factors but that is the principal one
That being said IF you exceed the manufacturer's recomended then you void any warrenty you might have.  My YS 63 regularly runs at a valve bouncing 16,000rpm for 30 second bursts (Duration) and has done so for a number of years.

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