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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 12-01-2012, 04:13 PM
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Ran the 100Twin today. First time I ever heard a Saito Twin run. Using a 13x8 K-Series MA prop. Turns about 9200 RPM. Idles 2100 with no heat on the Type F's. First time I ever tried to tune a twin, and with Air Bleed, to boot. Little bit of a learning curve there. Dropped a cylinder on the 2nd flight. Not really sure when, but only noticed it when taxiing back. Tuned it some more and I think I have fixed it. Best sound I ever heard at our flying field. Uses less fuel than I feared. 12 ounce tank will give 15 minute flights I think. Has the flex pipe exhausts. It would sound better with the straight pipes.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:30 PM
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Good report Mike. How do you think it would compare performance wise to the single cylinder 100? Or any multi cylinder engine compared to the same cubic inch single I guess.
Old 12-01-2012, 05:39 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Mike, good fuel economy is what shows tuning on Saitos imo.

FF, they are showing races at Winton Raceway in Victoria right now on Speed Channel.
Old 12-01-2012, 05:57 PM
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I'd guess this particular 100Twin has the power of an 82 Single Cylinder engine at 2-3 times the cost and close to twice the weight. But the sound is the advantage.
Old 12-01-2012, 05:58 PM
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One day, we'll try a radial
Old 12-01-2012, 11:01 PM
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Winton was weeks ago, the last race for the year was decided today in Sydney.  I won't tell you the result
Old 12-02-2012, 05:34 AM
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Hey hope you enjoyed a bit of v8 action aussie style
Old 12-02-2012, 05:40 AM
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ORIGINAL: mike early

Ran the 100Twin today. First time I ever heard a Saito Twin run. Using a 13x8 K-Series MA prop. Turns about 9200 RPM. Idles 2100 with no heat on the Type F's. First time I ever tried to tune a twin, and with Air Bleed, to boot. Little bit of a learning curve there. Dropped a cylinder on the 2nd flight. Not really sure when, but only noticed it when taxiing back. Tuned it some more and I think I have fixed it. Best sound I ever heard at our flying field. Uses less fuel than I feared. 12 ounce tank will give 15 minute flights I think. Has the flex pipe exhausts. It would sound better with the straight pipes.
Hey mike beautifull looking aeroplane and you've got the full span ailerons too,nice when you slow it up a bit to counteract the torque roll under power.Agree with all your comments on saito twins with airbleed carbs i've had a couple of huge inflight backfires when throttling back they are tricky little so and so's sometimes,mind you,it does wonders for the power of concentration.
Old 12-02-2012, 11:55 AM
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I have found that using a non-contact infrared temperature sensor really helps tune the twin cylinders to a closer tolerance than the Tach is able to do. I am starting to like the Air-Bleed carb. I am not sure why they ever changed it.
Old 12-02-2012, 02:14 PM
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Great club. This is a list of the Saito Engine's I have,

(1) 91 on a Hangar 9 Piper Pawnee

(1) 115 on an 8 ' Telemaster

(2) 150's, 1 on a CMPro Cessna 140 and 1 on a Great Planes PT-17 Steaman

(1) 180 on a RC Guy's Cessna 150

(1) 450 on my 12' Telemaster



Limits were made to be pushed by Test Pilots all others shall follow the rules.
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:34 PM
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ORIGINAL: N1EDM

I don't have a Purvis Bearing local warehouse but I do have one nearby under another name that someone reminded me of this morning. I'll try them tomorrow.

If not, I'll go to Boca but I'd still like to know why Boca recommends the rubber shielded bearings when no one else does...

Thanks for the help guys. Any and all commens are welcome.

Bob
Any engine that has the cam and pushrods in front of the main bearing should NOT use a sealed bearing. Sealed bearings will prevent lubrication from getting to the cam and followers. A shielded bearing will allow lube to get through. A shielded bearing MAY help with excessive oil out the front if you are not using the recommended SEALED front bearing. I know that some places are selling only shielded bearings for the front and that is not the right bearing.
Old 12-02-2012, 06:52 PM
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ORIGINAL: RC-Bearings


ORIGINAL: N1EDM

I don't have a Purvis Bearing local warehouse but I do have one nearby under another name that someone reminded me of this morning. I'll try them tomorrow.

If not, I'll go to Boca but I'd still like to know why Boca recommends the rubber shielded bearings when no one else does...

Thanks for the help guys. Any and all commens are welcome.

Bob
Any engine that has the cam and pushrods in front of the main bearing should NOT use a sealed bearing. Sealed bearings will prevent lubrication from getting to the cam and followers. A shielded bearing will allow lube to get through. A shielded bearing MAY help with excessive oil out the front if you are not using the recommended SEALED front bearing. I know that some places are selling only shielded bearings for the front and that is not the right bearing.
I think the newer style thunder tiger have a sealed main bearing , me no like ! cheers the pope
Old 12-03-2012, 03:16 PM
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Hmm temp sensors / readers, methinks we are delving into the hitech world of gen x and gen y   however this is food for thought.  I could use the pizza oven temp sensor to read those cylinder temps, no joking here my culinary mate read cook has one of those devices and it could be his contribution to the next engine running session.  Will report back on this.
Though one could also use all that new you beaut gear on offer from Spectrum and others.  As I slowly go broke (bankrupt) people bring out more goodies for me to spend money on.  
My son sitting in the shadows is rubbing hs hands with glee in anticipation of my demise.
Not good at all  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:18 AM
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Just got a nib Saito FA 80 Golden Knight. What would be your fist pick for an ideal plane. Silly question but curious what "the club" sez.
Old 12-05-2012, 10:21 AM
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Get the Sig Somethin Extra. I am running a Saito 82a on mine and it is great. The Saito FA 80 would be great also. Give it a try.
Old 12-05-2012, 03:26 PM
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Another nice to know in the knowledge sphere.  Has any one considered using the throttle curve program in the Heli section of our new you beaut electronic radios.  What we (some Vintagents / SAM 84) are experimenting with is setting up the engine (particularly on Duration models tat use slam aceleration)  using the heli throtlle set up and then copying it to the applicable model.  Experiments have indicated that the throttle is less likely to bog down (flooding with sudden throttle movement) and it gives a smoother more balanced response just as quick. You can use the linear or expo set up but this seems give better / smoother response.  And my old mentor says it is a good imporvement for his arthritic hand, the throttle one.  Will report back
Old 12-05-2012, 08:05 PM
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I have always wanted a throttle curve on my saitos. I have a DX7. Because of the different geometries, half throttle is different on every plane. DX7's do not have throttle curve on airplanes... Alas.
Old 12-05-2012, 08:07 PM
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As I said in the advice, if you have a heli option, set the throttle up in that copy to the applicable a/c model and do the applicable mix to enable the program to you a/c throttle control.
Old 12-05-2012, 08:22 PM
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Can you not achieve the throttle curve, you require using expotential????
Barry
Old 12-05-2012, 09:41 PM
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Yes, exponential on throttle channel will work but without all the control of programming a curve if your radio doesn't support that. Or you can set the linkage up to be soft off of idle like in the gasser threads.
Old 12-06-2012, 04:40 AM
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Fnq understands programming but if you are like me you don't/can't be bothered i just want it to throttle a certain way.If you can afford to get away from the dx7 and buy a jr9503 which does'nt require you to go the the dreaded heli mixing option please take it.I'd rather get my ear chewed off by mike tyson,or watch leighton hewitt play tennis on tv than do that.
Old 12-06-2012, 02:30 PM
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Hey guys I just found it doesn't mean I use it all the time, the throttle programming thing I mean.  It was a device to overcome flooding on a souuped up Enya 53 and it works.  We even have a program that allows switching between fixed and variable throttle settings and one that gives down and then neutral elevator with throttle shut off.  This one smoothes out the a/c attitude in transition between power and non power.
Best of all I declare to the resident computer nerd a need for a particular flight characteristic and said nerd comes up with the solution (well mostly).  Re the radio thing as I said if you have a heli option on your radio it is easy as outlined above.  On the JR radio thing my pristine new 9X11 developed the dreaded green slime syndrome.  Hopefully that will be fixed but as an interim I acquired an almost new 9X11 with the 2.4 gig conversion for $250 with 5 FM receivers.  Sold the conversion for $100 and the receivers for $200 for a net profit of 1 x 9X t/x and $50 in my hip pocket.  There are lots of deals out there like that with the Gen Xers having to have the latest new you beaut device andof course having the money to get it.
A quick knowledge transfer (advert) for my old mentors latest project.  Check out  www.crams.com.au for the do they are having next February.  The Catalina is already subject to troubles raised by te MAAQ and MAAA but it should still be a go do.
Old 12-06-2012, 02:33 PM
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As a final offering most of my throttles are fixed and linear with no mixing except for texaco where I have a variable fixed throttle setting for climb and a variable throttle for take of to get safely out of ground effect.
I have used mixing on the Enya 53 and my YS duration engines and I always use a throttle in preference to fixed throttle (ala control line) with a cut off.
Old 12-06-2012, 03:49 PM
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My Dx7 has heli mode, but I certainly do not know how to copy a heli throttle setting to the Aircraft side.

A search on the topic suggests that some folks are setting their planes up in Heli Mode and inhibiting the heli-mixes and some other tweaks. But seems like a lot of work to re-program all my planes. Maybe I'll try it on my next new plane..
Old 12-06-2012, 04:00 PM
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Yes Mike it can be a bugger and I only do these things on an as needs basis.  However, my son (forever known as "the nerd", almost a Sheldon from Big Bang Theory but he go married in time) actually puts these things up to me in the form of computer programs that I down load from a data base (black magic thingy) and then set up radio and copy and if it doesn't work I switch to an alternate radio which I teleconference (buzz word here) with him to fix it.  Not for the faint hearted but I will day my 75 year old mentor has adopted it and is a darn side better than me in achieving the desired result.  
In the end I resort to manipulating the controls to get the desired result.  Bit like flying a Tiger Moth and a B737 same but different.
The technology thing is great but there are limits which is why I like competing in Old Timer flying.  You can use gadgets as much or as little as you like.  A for instance is the "return to home" mode you can now get with some models.  With eyesight suffering from old age combined with te desire to extract that last inch of lift one can get into trouble easily.  Return to home homes in on the GPS thingy in your T/x and flys the a/c back to point of origin.  Less lost models I think but I have yet to explore it.
But back to topic.  The mixing provisions on our modern radios really enable us to get the best performance possible.
My rule here is use as much technology as you need to achieve the desired outcome and no more.  Works for me.     

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