***CUB BROTHERHOOD***
08-04-2014, 09:49 PM
#2501
While I won't comment on the senseless destruction of the atmosphere discussed here; 
any compressed gas BB gun of this sort can most certainly very easily be converted to CO2 used for Airsoft. It's like... made for it.
As for the R12... I've learned the hard way the joys of "retrofitting" to R134A; I say keep it and fix your older vehicle's AC properly, recover what R12 you can from the system, make double-damned sure you have no leaks and recharge with your very precious stock of R12.
Either that, or look into some of the classic car forums and sell it there for those who want to make show quality restorations; probably get enough to fund a whole new plane. Or a proper refit (with a proper aftermarket R134A evaporator and condenser) so your R134A-equipped car gets nice and cold, just like it did with R12.
mnem
Tsssssssssssssssssssssss...
any compressed gas BB gun of this sort can most certainly very easily be converted to CO2 used for Airsoft. It's like... made for it. As for the R12... I've learned the hard way the joys of "retrofitting" to R134A; I say keep it and fix your older vehicle's AC properly, recover what R12 you can from the system, make double-damned sure you have no leaks and recharge with your very precious stock of R12.
Either that, or look into some of the classic car forums and sell it there for those who want to make show quality restorations; probably get enough to fund a whole new plane. Or a proper refit (with a proper aftermarket R134A evaporator and condenser) so your R134A-equipped car gets nice and cold, just like it did with R12.
mnem
Tsssssssssssssssssssssss...
OK I know very bad joke. My Cub made me do it.John M,
Last edited by John_M_; 08-05-2014 at 09:39 AM.
08-04-2014, 10:54 PM
#2502
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Well, no. Auto AC is pretty easy, actually. ALWAYS flush the system, ALWAYS replace the Accumulator/Receiver Dryer to dispose of accumulated contaminants and oil, always drain the compressor of oil and then install the recommended amount of the correct oil for the type of refrigerant being used. You CAN retrofit a 1967 Chevelle with the original radial compressor to R134A and have it blow ice cubes, just as cold as an R12 system. I've done it.
The big issue with R134A is not that it's an "inferior" refrigerant; it's actually a better refrigerant. It runs cleaner, the synthetic oil used with it means compressors (as long as they remain uncontaminated) run twice as long, and they run cooler as well.
You just have to engineer the AC system correctly. R134A has a higher latent temperature; it also has a greater expansion coefficient when it changes state. This means that to work correctly, it has to operate in a high volume mode, where R12 works best in a high pressure differential mode. R12 systems use a series core or "serpentine" condenser; all the refrigerant travels back & forth across the airflow surface. The Evaporator is also usually serpentine core; though some later R12 vehicles were parallel-core; meaning the refrigerant is collected in a manifold at one end, which distributes it so it flows through all the cores simultaneously as it changes state to a gas again.
A proper R134A system has condenser and evaporator that are both parallel core. This is also why native R134A systems tend to have larger diameter tubing; they work on volume, not pressure.
Simple, really. Until they come along with variable displacement compressors; now THAT's all a whole 'nuther ball of wax...
mnem
*Under pressure*
The big issue with R134A is not that it's an "inferior" refrigerant; it's actually a better refrigerant. It runs cleaner, the synthetic oil used with it means compressors (as long as they remain uncontaminated) run twice as long, and they run cooler as well.
You just have to engineer the AC system correctly. R134A has a higher latent temperature; it also has a greater expansion coefficient when it changes state. This means that to work correctly, it has to operate in a high volume mode, where R12 works best in a high pressure differential mode. R12 systems use a series core or "serpentine" condenser; all the refrigerant travels back & forth across the airflow surface. The Evaporator is also usually serpentine core; though some later R12 vehicles were parallel-core; meaning the refrigerant is collected in a manifold at one end, which distributes it so it flows through all the cores simultaneously as it changes state to a gas again.
A proper R134A system has condenser and evaporator that are both parallel core. This is also why native R134A systems tend to have larger diameter tubing; they work on volume, not pressure.
Simple, really. Until they come along with variable displacement compressors; now THAT's all a whole 'nuther ball of wax...
mnem
*Under pressure*
08-05-2014, 06:01 AM
#2503
I converted a Mercury Sable with a R12 system to R134a and I can say done correctly it was as cool or cooler than the R12.
As for the BB gun I don't think it was out for long about 2 or 3 year, it was probably a liability nightmare. Back then I don't think anyone had ever heard of Global Warming or what freon would do to the environment so we were blissfully ignorant on what we were doing.
As for the BB gun I don't think it was out for long about 2 or 3 year, it was probably a liability nightmare. Back then I don't think anyone had ever heard of Global Warming or what freon would do to the environment so we were blissfully ignorant on what we were doing.
08-05-2014, 06:46 AM
#2504
Senior Member
I converted a Mercury Sable with a R12 system to R134a and I can say done correctly it was as cool or cooler than the R12.
As for the BB gun I don't think it was out for long about 2 or 3 year, it was probably a liability nightmare. Back then I don't think anyone had ever heard of Global Warming or what freon would do to the environment so we were blissfully ignorant on what we were doing.
As for the BB gun I don't think it was out for long about 2 or 3 year, it was probably a liability nightmare. Back then I don't think anyone had ever heard of Global Warming or what freon would do to the environment so we were blissfully ignorant on what we were doing.
08-05-2014, 09:31 AM
#2506
Well, no. Auto AC is pretty easy, actually. ALWAYS flush the system, ALWAYS replace the Accumulator/Receiver Dryer to dispose of accumulated contaminants and oil, always drain the compressor of oil and then install the recommended amount of the correct oil for the type of refrigerant being used. You CAN retrofit a 1967 Chevelle with the original radial compressor to R134A and have it blow ice cubes, just as cold as an R12 system. I've done it.The big issue with R134A is not that it's an "inferior" refrigerant; it's actually a better refrigerant. It runs cleaner, the synthetic oil used with it means compressors (as long as they remain uncontaminated) run twice as long, and they run cooler as well. You just have to engineer the AC system correctly. R134A has a higher latent temperature; it also has a greater expansion coefficient when it changes state. This means that to work correctly, it has to operate in a high volume mode, where R12 works best in a high pressure differential mode. R12 systems use a series core or "serpentine" condenser; all the refrigerant travels back & forth across the airflow surface. The Evaporator is also usually serpentine core; though some later R12 vehicles were parallel-core; meaning the refrigerant is collected in a manifold at one end, which distributes it so it flows through all the cores simultaneously as it changes state to a gas again.A proper R134A system has condenser and evaporator that are both parallel core. This is also why native R134A systems tend to have larger diameter tubing; they work on volume, not pressure.Simple, really. Until they come along with variable displacement compressors; now THAT's all a whole 'nuther ball of wax...mnem*Under pressure*
I'm old school, I just don't like change, lol
John M,
Last edited by John_M_; 08-05-2014 at 09:36 AM.
08-05-2014, 11:08 AM
#2507
I've just been informed via PM, we have gone off topic again... so on that note, lets bring it back on topic; any freon powered piper cubs out there?... I think I'm going to convert my co2 powered piper to run on R22. 
... mnem ??
John M
... mnem ??John M
08-05-2014, 11:23 AM
#2511
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Well yeah it may be easy for you and I... but trust me I've had to straighten out 134a conversions that were done by a certified tech!!... that was back when they first introduce R134a, and the techs didn't know squat and used the wrong oils which caused the evaporators and condenser to corrode... yes the synthetics oils made it easier for these guys, but a licensed tech is a licensed tech, he should know what he is doing.
I'm old school, I just don't like change, lol
John M,
I'm old school, I just don't like change, lol
John M,
You have no idea how many $1400-2000 estimates I wrote up to fix "my dumba** brother's screwups". Good thing the shop had financing.
The really bad part is... at first the car manufacturers REALLY didn't know how to work with R134A either; there were a number of OEM systems that NEVER worked right straight from the factory because, as we know, many decisions on the assembly line are made by "Management" rather than "Qualified Engineers". The mid-to-late 90s were a nightmare of incorrectly mixed parts, especially from GM and Chrysler. Saturn was actually the first GM line to get it right cuz they started out with young engineers who were designing with R134A in mind, rather than reverse-engineered R12 systems.
[EDIT]
[/EDIT]
mnem
RIP, Saturn. You were the best of GM; that's why you had to be sacrificed on the altar of Corporate Greed.
Last edited by mnemennth; 08-05-2014 at 11:27 AM.
08-05-2014, 11:36 AM
#2513
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08-05-2014, 12:12 PM
#2514
I am not one for "traditional" paint schemes, I like to be different so I came up with that design on the fly, I wanted the Red White and Blue colors from the start, and the design just came to me as I started looking at it, then laid out the tape and started painting. The engine will be an OS 70(unless I find a nice twin on the cheap before cutting the cowl). Other than that nothing special being done on it. I havent done any mods to it either, though I am considering a different hinging technique for the door, not liking how it looks with the kit way of doing it.
The things left to do, I have to finish covering the window door, clear coat the fuse and under the wings, install the links for the tail, and put the glass in. The wings need the servos installed, ailerons hinged, and struts painted. Engine just needs the cable soldered and hooked up. last thing is the cowl and its ready to fly.
08-05-2014, 01:16 PM
#2516
John M,
08-05-2014, 02:50 PM
#2517
I am not one for "traditional" paint schemes, I like to be different so I came up with that design on the fly, I wanted the Red White and Blue colors from the start, and the design just came to me as I started looking at it, then laid out the tape and started painting. The engine will be an OS 70(unless I find a nice twin on the cheap before cutting the cowl). Other than that nothing special being done on it. I haven't done any mods to it either, though I am considering a different hinging technique for the door, not liking how it looks with the kit way of doing it.
John M,
Last edited by John_M_; 08-05-2014 at 02:57 PM.
08-05-2014, 03:01 PM
#2519
Senior Member
I did exactly the same thing W/an FA-91S. Only the front of the rocker covers protrude.
08-05-2014, 04:12 PM
#2521
Senior Member
A coat of clear between the 2 patterns would probably be a good idea.
08-05-2014, 06:02 PM
#2522
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08-05-2014, 11:09 PM
#2523
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Looked in on your S1-S. VERY nice build! Now I know what it would look like if a Edge 540 and a Pitts 12-S got together and had a baby...
I dunno; clearly the S1-S is a performer... but dang, it hurts my heart to see the Pitts body lines without the NACA Cowling. It reminds me of this thing they had in the JC Whiplash catalog in the 80s; a faux Rolls-Royce "Hood" to put on your VW Beetle in place of the original front-end trunklid. It feels the same; it's just somehow... wrong. Not of the same spirit.
I know you'll love it every much as I love my little Python, though! You sure wouldn't have spent this much time building it!
[EDIT]
I'm sorry; I honestly didn't mean that to be as mean as it sounds. I love my little Python fiercely, and I guess I'm just not good at sharing the love. Please see my comments on your build thread and know I mean no ill-will. Quite the contrary. Congratulations!
Also, I went looking for some pics of the Valach 170 you're using and stumbled across this; a bench test of a Czech manufactured 170 4-Cylinder. It's a pretty beast and I just had to share!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=B3wvj3evc1E [/EDIT]
mnem
I'm just going to stop talking now.
I dunno; clearly the S1-S is a performer... but dang, it hurts my heart to see the Pitts body lines without the NACA Cowling. It reminds me of this thing they had in the JC Whiplash catalog in the 80s; a faux Rolls-Royce "Hood" to put on your VW Beetle in place of the original front-end trunklid. It feels the same; it's just somehow... wrong. Not of the same spirit.
I know you'll love it every much as I love my little Python, though! You sure wouldn't have spent this much time building it!
[EDIT]
I'm sorry; I honestly didn't mean that to be as mean as it sounds. I love my little Python fiercely, and I guess I'm just not good at sharing the love. Please see my comments on your build thread and know I mean no ill-will. Quite the contrary. Congratulations!
Also, I went looking for some pics of the Valach 170 you're using and stumbled across this; a bench test of a Czech manufactured 170 4-Cylinder. It's a pretty beast and I just had to share!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=B3wvj3evc1E [/EDIT]
mnem
I'm just going to stop talking now.
Last edited by mnemennth; 08-05-2014 at 11:42 PM.
08-06-2014, 01:40 PM
#2525
While I'm waiting for my engine to arrive... I thought I'd add a step to the super cub and do a few other things to personalize it... the rear landing gear mount gets in the way of the step mount under the belly, so I had to compensate some, but it worked out ok.
It is what its is... mine came from the 4 fingered china-men factory.. I wished I had sent the whole thing back for a complete replacement... after getting the wing damage sorted out... I notice some rear bulkheads in the tail had some slight damage, and the plastic pull - pull tubes were loose at the exits... so I just went ahead and pulled the covering off the bottom of the fuse, made the repairs and recovered with some white ultracote... is that a dark cloud over my head? sure looks like it.... should be ready to for the maiden flight soon... just waiting for that dark cloud to move, lol.
John M,
It is what its is... mine came from the 4 fingered china-men factory.. I wished I had sent the whole thing back for a complete replacement... after getting the wing damage sorted out... I notice some rear bulkheads in the tail had some slight damage, and the plastic pull - pull tubes were loose at the exits... so I just went ahead and pulled the covering off the bottom of the fuse, made the repairs and recovered with some white ultracote... is that a dark cloud over my head? sure looks like it.... should be ready to for the maiden flight soon... just waiting for that dark cloud to move, lol.
John M,
Last edited by John_M_; 08-06-2014 at 02:11 PM.