Myself used to live in Seattle as well. I left that beutiful city for a flying school. Now I am Boeing 737 NG rated...
It seams we have several things in comon.

737NG is one of my babies but 757/777 are my favourites (favorites!")

Would that be a 600, 700, 800 or 900 or all of them ?

I am a Weights Engineer so I hope you are keeping things in balance and not exceeding your fore and aft limits or Max. TO Weights!!! (currently JSF F35 is my babe!)

Seattle is the bestest place on earth (except for southbound I5/I405 in a morning!).....had to leave to take care of the old folks else I'd still be there! Never been to Sweden and Agnetha never invited me so my second favourite place is the Isle of Man (middle of the Irish Sea....those guys have Jurby Airfield to fly their models at...fantastic.

....now back to the Extra!

Cheers

Did the touch and go with the 700 last june and I loved it (300-900 rated). Now I am trying the next impossible step in my silly attempt of actually finding myself a job on one of these birds...


Just to share my crazyness since it has all to do with this kit.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_47...tm.htm#4723510

...

Now hang on a minute, Rate1

I was always lead to believe that you only needed a pilot and a dog (Capt. Morgan ?) on the flightdeck !

The Pilot was there to feed the dog and the dog was there to bite the Pilot if he touched the controls.

Is this true then ???

Cheers

PS have you tried :
http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/Sea...ID=&sKeywords=

You got it right...

Superworm, thank you for the link. Yes I am keeping an eye on that sight (prob the best sight in Europe). Even applied on one of these jobs recently...

By the way Superworm, we have just bought a piece of land where we are planing to build our house. This land is on a small island, the same as Agnetha lives on. Perhaps you would like me to meantion about you for our new neighbor?

Back to the build...

I have now recived 2/3rd of my kit... This because Lanier had to repack one too big box into 3 smaller boxes for reg shipping... I would guess I will have all of the gear on mon or tues. Whenever everything is here I will start my build.

OK..here are more piccies of my Extra...this time the Horizontal Tail (HT) and Elevator (Elev)

The first should show the LHS of the HT/Elev. The Hinge pin is a No6 UNC by 3/8 " (10mm) Cap head bolt which is bored to to receive a length of music wire (approx 8"). You will see a short piece of ally K&S tube which lines the hole in the balsa endcap into which the bolt head fits. Next there is a elevator sectioned (wedge shaped) end rib into which a Blind nut has been fixed from the inner side to receive the threads. This hinge pin passes through a plastic liner (a Sullivan "Golden Rod) which is laid on the hinge line of the elev and surrounded with 3/32 balsa strips to locate it in place. All this balsa and lite ply replaces the foam core of the elev previously cut off the whole HT. The Golden Rod is capped off at the LE by a piece of balsa to form the LE of the elevator AFTER the ele has been skinned with 1/16 contest balsa. The correct radius of the elev is achieved by using a long sanding bar and "filing buttons"...more or less a washer which is the correct dia for each end of the elev (ie half the elev thickness at the tip and again at the c/l root thickness) so that you get a conical sectioned LE of the correct shape as you sand away the excess...sound difficult but it isn't really....methinks a cross section sketch of the elevator would help here.

Wow...I know we're not supposed to utter expletives on this site but I just had a premonition that my box was going to crash and it did...just a millisecond after I decided to hit the OK button and post what I'd written so far...sheeeeesh.

Anyway you can see the hinge pins next to the the elev on the third piccy. The Golden rods are essentially in 4 lenths (actually one length with three very short (1/16" long) sections cut out..as is the LE (see the slots ?) This is so that the Hinge Brackets (made from carbon sheet but may be changed to Glass sheets since carbon is a conductor ...of glitches, etc since the hinge pin moves within them) can poke through the Elev to collect each Hinge bracket as it is threaded into the Elev from its tip. The cap head bolts (screws actually!) thus screw into the blind nuts at the tip and the attached (brazed in) wires go through each hinge bracket in turn as they go in until they pick up the last hinge bracket. The Hinge brackets are not yet glued into the HT so that accounts for the slight misalignment of the Elev in Piccy 1...it will be right on the night!

On piccy 2 you can see where I've used 1/32 ply (laminated to 1/32 balsa) to make up a thickness of 1/16 which is then mated to the 1/16 sheet covering the rest of the HT. This ply then forms the "shroud" over the LE of the Elev. The HT cores have end-grain balsa blocks let into them to accept the Hinge Brackets and mounting bolts. Buried in the foam cares are also a couple of liteply "dihedral braces" just to ensure the HT halves have a continuous load path across the centreline joint

The last two piccies show the Elev Horn which I've machined from a block of Ally. Its quite long but needs to be to get down into the fuselage.. The Servo Horn will be equally as long so this length will also eliminate (relatively speaking) a lot of freeplay...The horn will be attached with 2-56 screws into tapped holes in the horn and locknuts... time for a save...

More Anon...hope you like it so far...its quite a lot of trouble but if you want it scale,,,,,,,,,(and nothing else would do for my Patty!)

Hi Rate1

If you encounter Agnetha...just tell her that you know of this ancient Limey half-wit who flies model hairyplanes and is head-over-heels in love with her and her music-----but please don't tell my wife I said so.

Good luck with the build and please post lots of piccies.....don't hesitate to ask if you need a second opinion on anything. (Eg whether to cut the engine cowling horizontally so you can just take the top off for engine access...I may do this.)

If you are sticking with the YS, we need to see if Don Harris's california muffler company still exists...bestest smoke mufflers on the market although there are others.(were about 80 dollars + shipping + import duty + bl**dy VAT)..I'll try do some research else we'll make our own.

Cheers

Superworm, that is super what you have done so far. I like it alot. Very...very nice touch with the hingeline on the elev. Also, good pics together with good explanations on how you did it. I would love such a hingline on my model but think it is simply to advanced for my limited experience. Also I am planing on going the light weight route on this one...

However having a cut out cowl to get access to the engine sound like music to me...no Superworm not Agnetha just music...
As meantioned before, I did order the fiberglass cowl and pants with this kit. Obviously, if there is a nice and easy way of getting an access hatch to the engine compartment that is not too heavy I would like to have one. I am planing to have the engine mounted inverted so in this case it would be an alternative to open up the lower part of the cowl for access.
Much appreciated that you are offering your help for my coming build as this most certainly will be needed. I will ask you as i progress and my intentions are those that anyone following this thread can see what stage I am at.

Yes, a smoke system will be needed. I was looking a Slimline muffler and smoke system but really have not decided yet what system I will go for.

I have hooked myself up with one of the Skydivers at my Skydiving club to help me out vaccum sheet the wings. This guy is a aeroplane technician instructor with the keys to the school where he works at (access 24/7). He said they have a 2000 liter airtank at the school used for the students laminating classes. We are planing to laminate my wings on a weekend. Hopefully this will work out without any snags and hopefully I will get myself a set of super lite wings with a minimum amount of resin used. *fingers crossed*

More later,

Rate1

For smoke pump info goto:

http://www.tmenet.com/products.htm#ssp

I have my muffler but will have to think about what we can do for yours ??? possibly Slimline:

http://www.slimlineproducts.com/
but bear the type of muffler you use when you orientate your engine..I was hoping it will go in on its side but ut looks pretty close to sticking its head out of the cowling (YS 140).. If it needs to go it either inverted or at 45 degrees to remain isdie the cowl, may have to rethink the muffler.


Cheers

I like the smoke pump and at less than half the weight of Slimline Showtime pro and at a lower price... Not meantioning it seams to be a better product. Good stuff... Putting it down on my wish list...

I had a closer look at the drawings and found that there is no built in right thrust on the fire wall? On my previous .60 Extra there was build in right thrust to counter the P-factor. Are we suppose to figure out ourself how much offset we need to build the firewall or how should we do this? Should we not have this on a 25% aerobatic plane?

Rate1, I just returned your PM.. now you have me interested in watching this thread to see how it all turns out!

I ended up taking out almost all the right-thrust on my 60-size GP Extra by shimming the engine mount. It took years before I realized that all the right-thrust was not really needed and the plane actually flies much better without it!

I think that the YS 140 Sport is an excellent choice for this airplane. Plenty of power to spare and a bit more user-friendly than a YS 160 which would be insane power for this airplane anyway.

Most of my YS engines are mounted inverted and if anything they seem to run better this way than mounted on their side.

Walt

Build-n-flyer,

Thank you for your responce. Great to hear that you manage to get the GP Extra that is an excellent flyer to fly even better.

Also good info in regards to my question on right thrust. With this in hand I will trust having a straight firewall/no offset thrust as per plan.
Please chim in on this thread whenever you feel for it as I think all aspects and ideas should be considered before taking the plounge.
As my friend Superworm said "measure twice and cut once".

Guys

I don't believe we have a choice on the right thrust....there is no provision within the engine cowling design for any. So, as Build-n-flyer says, Zero degrees it is...if necessary we can always bung in a tad of right rudder trim for TO. My Ultimate bipe has 3 degrees of right thrust but I'm not sure if it actually needs any...it was built into the cowling so to make everything align, 3 degrees it was (with respect to Diana Ross!). Otherwise we'll have an unequal gap between the spinner backplate and the cowling ring...(and we know what the rudder is for).

Build-n-flyer ...please revise your signature...how can you ever say your hangar is fulll....it is not possible...there is ALWAYS room for one more ....you simply need to extend it a tad.


Cheers

Worst comes to worse, you can always shim the engine mount. I have seen the aeroworks guys using paper thin washers getting the engine thrust just right out here in CO. BTW a lot of the pictures on their website is where i fly.

Back to the right thrust. Every kit I have build has been a greatplanes/towerhobbies/top flite product and they all have right thrust. I dont know if its just the way they design their airplanes, or if the airplanes really need it. This being a lanier, maybe they have built it into the fin or something. I am not sure as I don't have the kit, but i really would like to see how this build comes out. Have a good one.

Zope Pope, if we come to the conclution that we do need to including some right thrust I think your suggestion will be a great way of doing it. I like simple and light weight solutions as they most of the times turns out to be the best ones.

I like your suggestion too. A way to make easy thrust adjustments is to sand a wedge from good plywood that won't crush too much.

The way I do it is to spray glue an appropriate piece (usually 1/8" aircraft ply to the edge of my glass work bench. I use coarse paper or a tungstan sand to rip it to shape quickly. Then I progress to finer grits to smooth it out.

I drop the wedges in a can of oil-gase polyurethane to soak an hour to over night. I then hang it on a wire through one of the mounting holes and use a paper towel to soak up the excess puddle that runs to the edge.

After it's dry a light sanding to flatten the part and it's done unless I sand through the paint in which coat I'll brush or spary a finish coat. Give it a week or so to fully dry and you're in business.

The biggest problem with adding shims or wedges is that the spinner won't align with the cowel any more. Whenever possible I trim the model without the cowl mounted and then add the cowl later. Adding the cowl does change the aerodynamics a bit but I haven't found that it makes a difference in the thrust adjustment.

- Paul

The hanger is full and I can't find time to fly all the airplanes that I have, but then again I just saw a note that one of the guys in my club is selling his Wildhare Extra with a DA50 at a bargain price... mabe I can make room...

My GP Extra defintitely flies much better without the right thrust. Now absolutely no rudder is needed to keep up-lines arrow straight or to keep loops perfectly on-plane. And I can't tell any difference in ground handling. I can't account for it but facts are facts.

Walt

Well all of my kit is finaly here and so is the contest balsa I ordered to replace the stock sheeting in order to save weight.

Needless to say I was very curious to see if this stunt would save around 10 oz as expected or not, so I found my sweet little digital scale (acurate to +/- 1 gram=0,035oz) and went to action...

The weight of all stock balsa sheets: 598gram=21,09oz
Weight of the contest balsa to replace the stock: 311gram=10,97oz
------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight reduced by replacing the sheeting for a better grade is 10,12oz or 0,63 lbs if you like. Same as slashing the weight of the sheeting by 50%.
Now some scrap and cutting some of the material off is expected while building the kit, so a total of approx 0,5 lbs will be saved on this model by this stunt alone.



Looking at the manual it states that there is 4 fuze sides, where 2 makes one fuz side, and the manual instruct us to join 2 ply together to get one full length fuz side. Digging into my kit I found 2 full lenght fuz sides instead of the 4... This is good as I don't have to glue em together to get one piece. Obviously Lanier have made a change to the better in their kit but not updated their manual for it. Also, I have checked out the material of the fuz sides and found it so so. Meaning it is def not good nor is it poor... I said before that I was planing to change these fuze sides but are now feeling a bit undecisive as if it is really worth the effort to replace these to save perhaps 2 oz?

All I need now is my Tower Hobby order to arrive and I will actually start to build this kit.

I found my dremel tool and had a strong feeling to do some mayheim to something... First thing that crossed my path where 2 ply fuz sides...

****Revised****

The weight before this operation was 187 grams= 6,6 oz (that is stock and without the pop-out bits ofcourse)
Afterwards the weight was 128 grams= 4,5 oz
----------------------------------------------------------------
Weight removed: 59 grams, or 2,1 oz (=32%)

Next step is to glue a 1/4" balsa stick along the top edge of the fuz sides, running from front to aft. I found out that the 15 peices of 1/4"x36" balsa sticks included in this kit had a weight of 4-11 grams a piece (0,14-0,39 oz). I had a few extra laying around and have now measured and chosed sticks that has a weight of 4-5 grams (0,14-0,17oz) on this build. I love that digital scale..

I am all done with the fuz bulk heads.

Stock the weight was 58 grams=2,05 oz
Now 45 grams=1,58 oz
---------------------------------------------
Reduced weight: 13 grams=0,47 oz (or 22%)

Superworm,

What did you use as a dihedral on the stab? Me too are thinking that perhaps this area needs to stiffen up a bit as I dont trust my fiberglassing technique or epoxy direct on the foam.
I was thinking to use a couple of left over carbonfiber push rods...?

Looking good so far Rate1

Its now Jig time - a sawing jig

For splicing your fuselage longerons (ie. 36" as supplied isn't long enough), I took a piece of liteply (approx 6" long by 2" wide) as a base and glued 2 lengths of 1/4" square sticks exactly 1/4" apart (use a couple of short pieces as a guide) and parallel to each other along the the length of the base (6" long !) so that you have a trough between the two. Now with your Xacto saw (or similar) and being very careful to keep the blade vertical) saw a diagonal cut across the two sticks at an angle of about 20 to 30 degrees across the middle.

Now by placing the end of one of your 1/4" square longerons in this trough, you can use the previous sawcut as a sawing guide so that when you do the same to another stick, you can then glue the two together along each's diagonal saw cut and you will have the most perfectly aligned splice joint.

Lemme know if you don't see what I mean and, hopefully, I can find out what I did with mine....dig it up and photograph it.

Note that if you have to do the same job on anything twice or more, think about making and using a jig...

Cheers