Pedro,

Thanks.

This is my first real experiment with Pull-Pull, so don't take wat I say as the absolute.

I used the Sullivan Kevlar cables. I wanted to try the Kevlar, because I didn't want the possibility of metal interfering with the radio antenna. With the Kevlar, you don't get the small size sleeves you get with the brass cable. I realize that it must be that way, because there would be no way to push the Kevlar down a tight sleeve. The larger sleeve that comes with the Kevlar is the same sleeve as the red nylon pushrods.

I didn't use much of this sleeve (2 inches per cable), just enough to exit the fuselage. Mounting it in Epoxy and Microbaloons, the same as you would for a pushrod. I left these tubes long when I was mounting them, so that I could point them to where I was planning on running the servos. For the upper cables to the elevator, I cut slots in the upper turtle deck the same distance above the elevator as the exits I used below the elevator.

I also used short lenghts of the small nylon pushrods (about 3 inches per cable) inside these guides. The Kevlar cable was about the right size to go down the middle, and I could push it the short length. I glued these to the Kevlar cable using the white canopy glue. I don't know if this is the best, but it's somewhat flexible, will glue to the plastic (I think), and should also adhere to the Kevlar well.

On the elevator, I pretty much did what whaturi did (shown on post 125 of this thread) to mount the servo. I mounted the rudder servo in the center of the normal servo mounts. I also removed the extra supports for the pushrods fromt the fuselage formers, since they weren't needed. I made an access hatch just behind the wing on the bottom of the fuselage, should I need to get at the elevator servo.

To make sure my ends don't move, I ran the cable through the brass sleeve 3 times before crimping down on it (through the sleeve, through the eye, back through the sleeve, around the sleeve, and through the sleeve again). I also injected some more of the canopy glue into the sleeve before I crimped it. It doesn't make the cleanest looking ends, but I firstly wanted to make sure it didn't move.

Good luck with your second build.

Dan

Is this thread dead?

Anyone out there building one or built one recently?

Pedro

not sure??? i built mine and been flying it .. sept 06 got about 70+ flights on it , had a wheel fall off ,had to harrier land it in the weeds no damage thank god shes a beauty... flies great looks good... probley not the best 3d plane but man it does the most wicked blenders into invert flat spins.. c-ya tim

I am building my second one, and this time I am paying more attention to weight and construction details. So far, every part I have built is true. I am going to start the wings tonight.

I had my first one with an OS61FX, but it lacked of enough power. This time I have a SK91 ready for her.

What engine do you have?

What's your ready to fly weight?

i got a saito 100 in it usally w/ a 15x4 on the front works real nice i had to look back to see the weight, it's 6lb 8oz move the gear forward at least 1" i had mine 3/4" and it wasent enough so i put a wedge under it to move the gear even more and now its the whip .. where you get the kit ?? e-bay or did you have it.. i put a pic of mine hope it worked

Nice scheme of colors. I will do mine as in the box. I like the yellow/blue/white/red combination.

I bought a kit about six months before GP discontinued it. Then, I bought a half kit from e-bay and bought missing pieces from GP. At the end, I paid the same price of a new kit. So, I have two. I am building this one, but at the same time, I am creating a 3D-CAD model of every piece. So, I can laser cut every part whenever I want. Also, I am planning on making my own FG cowl.

So, how is it flying? Do you feel it heavy?

it flies good, it does had a tendency to snap to the right w/ excess elev. seems to be worse @ higher speeds ,it has good slow flight and landing about medium speed work well.. its a nice looking plane but can be a challenge to fly @ times..

i need to rebuild the wings on my giles 202 .46 but i dont have the shape of the wing ribs does any body know how to get the them, may be over the internet?

Send me a PM. I can give you a hand.

Pedro

need a little help plz... been fly'n the giles and on inverted flight she like to nose down so i move the battery pack back further in the fuse balanced it and i say its prolly 5" mabe 5 1/4" back from the lead edge @ the fuse cant find my instruction book from the build. whats the book say, and has anybody flown it back further than 5 1/4" thanx tim

I am flying my Giles at 5-1/4" from LE measured at the fuse. Mine flies awesome IMO. I did 4 flights with it today.

Actually, I was thinking about moving the CG a bit forward to 5" or 5-1/8". I really do not complain about my actual CG. I just want to feel the difference.

I really would not pass 5-1/4". I think it will be tail heavy. By the way, what's the RTFW of your Giles? Mine is 7.0 pounds, that's about 26.1 wingloading.

thanx pedro.. i rechecked it was 5 1/4" took it out yesterday... took off and needed 2clicks of dwn elev. to re-trim it.. so that improved the inverted flight. gonna move the battery jst a smidge more ... and she should be great .. mabe 5 3/8's i put it on the scale and it's 7.1 lbs rtf, seems kinda heavy for that size plane but flys good ... i know it was under 7lbs when i first started fly'n it but, put on a alum spinner and special mount for the muffler on the saito (kept comming loose) so i think thats what put me over the 7lbs mark.. got 114 flights on it so far so good...thanx tim

I haven't flown mine that long. Actually, I just had eight flights. The first four were a nightmare because of engine problems. But, I found the problem being the carb. This last four flights where a test of the engine with a new carb. So, I was somewhat conservative. I didn't want to have another deadstick in the wrong position/altitude. At the end of the day, the engine proved to be reliable. And WOW, this model is wild with snap-rolls. Also, I was really impressed how straight and level she was in a big loop. Wings stayed level all the time and she tracked completely in-line. Landings are easy and slow. No tendency to snap at all. She has a lot of coupling to the belly in Knife-edge.

I also tested her slow stall characteristic, she can fly really slowly as long as you have proper elevator input. In slow rate mine never snaps even when I pull fast the elevator. In high rates, she snaps as she is supposed to do.

Anyways, now that the engine is reliable, I will start concentrating in trimming everything else. I might also remove one elevator servo and install a D.E.P.S. This will save me one ounce at $0.00 cost because I will release one servo.

yea its not a goodplane to deadstick especially if its in a bad spot when she quits, i think i've only had 5 deadsticks in that many flights and twice the fuelline split @ the outlet line in the tank, pretty much causing all the dead sticks . so i'll be checking that aftr 40 more flight or so.. its my first saito and so far i'm pleased w/it , had some muffler loose'n issues early on, but thats resolved.. i've got 6% mix on the rudder/elev. and shes rock solid in the knife edge now... tim

Tim,

I haven't flown my Giles yet (been too busy from work to get my thumbs back from the winter), so take what I say with a grain of salt. I've been doing this with my other aerobatic aircraft. Also, this is my own opinion, for what I do. The final answer for you might be in what your level of tolerance is with this.

I would start out slightly nose heavy like you already have, and like the instructions and everything else has you do. This is required for stability. As you develop more familiarity with the aircraft, and work out the other bugs, sneak the C/G back a little at a time until you reach what I think of as neutral aerobatic balance. You will be losing some of the stability, but gaining aerobatic capabilities.

That is the point at which you can fly it upright, set your trim so that it flys with no control input like you normally do. Then invert it. With a neutral aerobatic balance, it will not take any down to hold altitude upside down. (It will be trimmed out both right side up, and inverted.) That is as rear as you want the C/G to go. It opens up a lot of different aerobatics possibilities (including 3D if the aircraft and pilot are capable).

Careful, as you get to this point, flying inverted can be tricky. You get used to holding down when you fly inverted. When you no longer have to hold down, it's a lot easier to get turned around on the elevator.

Landing also gets to be different, so make sure to work out the other bugs you get. Work to this point gradually, and you will probably slow the aircraft down more, but land with a little throttle on. (Somewhat like a Harrier landing approach).

Finally, as your wing loading goes up, you can't do this because of other things get in the way, such as a tendancy to tip stall. That's why people go to extraordinary lengths to get those 3D birds light rather than strong.

You will also end up flying it much slower. As you get slower, the controls get mushier. You almost need that to keep from overcontrolling your airplane. Full throttle becomes like full elevator. You just don't need it that much, or for that long.

It's a different kind of flying.

All of these things take getting used to, and may have you tuning some other things on your aircraft, and your flying. Another reason to work to that point gradually. You may also want to work some of this out with a less expensive, or other trial aircraft before you get to your Giles. You may also get to the point, as you work your C/G back that you decide you don't want to fly that way. That becomes your level of tolerance between aerobatics and stability, which is perfectly fine. Fly your aircraft the way you want to fly and don't let anyone else tell you differently.

Dan

goods words of advice pizzaman im gonna leave it for now, although i did move the c.g back past 5 1/4 not quite to 3/8's im thinking thats gonna do it.. i do a litte 3-d w/ this one and leave the heavy stuff to my reactor and soon the ultra rc giles wait'n on the motor 4 that one hopefully gonna go this week one morn and i'll keep u up on the flight tendencies...thanx tim... added a cpl pics for ur veiwing pleasure

Dan,

Your advice has illustrated me too. It is more important to me now that I will start focusing on trimming the model. I always wanted to build this model to start IMAC. So far so good. The Giles flies true. Even for take offs, she does not need any rudder input.

Do you have any advice about how to trim ailerons to change model attitud? I heard some pattern pilots talking about that for improving inverted flight.

Thanks
Pedro

Pedro, Tim,

Thanks for the complements. It's always nice to at least think I'm not totally crazy all the time.

Tim, Nice pics.

Pedro,

At this point, I'm right there with you. I also got mine as a possible entry into that type of flight. It seems like a couple of years ago, I was reading a part in a series of articles in one of the RC magazines on trim.

At this point in my flying, I'm starting to be able to perform many of the trickier maneuvers, but am not precise on any thing. I think I need to start flying larger, and more well behaved birds than the ones I'm flying now. Also, I need a lot more stick time to get the precision I need. Maybe when I retire in another 18 years. I tell you this so you can gauge what I say properly.

I'm having philosophical disagreements with what I read in the magazine articles. Mainly to do with how we all mount the engine pointed to the right. IMO, and I'm probably in the minority on this, it's great for horizontal flight. In that case the right side of the prop pulls more than the left, so we need to compensate. This pull is dependant on the angle of attack of the engine, and the throttle setting. It sounds like you've got a good balance for takeoff as you don't need rudder to compensate during takeoff.

Unfortunately, the right thrust fix for normal flight is working against us for inverted flight. It also is not really working for us on vertical lines as there is no angle of attack there.

I may have made a mistake on mine, as I've removed the right thrust angle on the engine. (Like I said, I'm probably in the minority). However, I wanted to be able to fly as well inverted as not, and I seem to spend about as much time near vertical and inverted these days as in straight and level. I'm spending more time inverted these days, and add that to the time I spend on vertical and near vertical lines, and you got what I spend right side up.

As I remember on the trim articles, not putting in any right thrust was not thought highly of by the author of the trim article. I've done this on my other builds, and haven't regretted it yet. I've found that I need to compensate for crosswind, bumps on the runway, and other things during takeoff more than asymmetrical thrust. It is also one of my arguments with my simulator.

It's all a balance between normal flight and inverted flight. You make the normal flight better at the cost of inverted flight. You make the aerobatic cabability at the cost of stability. Like I said, earlier find your level of comfort with things.

I'll try to find the article, but don't hold your breath. I was travelling through the airport and wanted something to read on the plane.

Dan