Oh, thanks for the translation.

I agree with you. They are called anal retensive, or something like that.


I do think that learning on a turbine is not practically though. Stupid? Hmm, ya.

But I am all for new things though.

The Wright Flyer was a combination of genius, ingenuity, and luck. It is a perfect example of innovation. Oh!- and it flew at 9.8mph ground speed. Survivable in case of an accident right? Now we all owe our hobby in some part to these legends of innovation for taking small steps and doing things ((Wright)) right.

They build models, tested gliders, and look short hops before they flew. Do you think we would even know their names if they failed and died as countless others did- Probably not. If anything use them as an example. Walk before you run, hop before you jump, glide before you fly.

Even innovation is slow process.

Other examples: Wernher Vaun Braun or Egor Sikorsky,

They did die. The Write brothers killed at least one test pilot. Let's not forget him. What was his name again?

Wilbur also died in a crash of one of those stupid slow flyers........

MikeMc:

You'd think that as the holder of a Masters degree in Engineering <<cough>> you'd be familiar with the concept of PROGRESSION.

Was Calculus your first math class?

Was Mt Everest the first hill that Sir Edmund Hillery climbed? I think not. And if you could bend his ear for two minutes and tell him that you wanted to learn to climb by peaking K2, I'll bet that the word "stupid" would certainly be used in that conversation.

Is it POSSIBLE? I guess.

Is it STUIPD? Yes.

What I don't understand is this: You claim that you are visionary, and we're all narrow minded "sheep". In a hundred years why would we be learning to fly with turbines? Why not Mag-Lev? Or Anti-Matter? or Anti-Gravity?

I've come to the conclusion that thread length is directly proportional to how trivial and nonsensical the first post in said thread is.

Very good observation. However, I'd like to add that sometimes arguing is a lot of FUN!!

No. Wilber died at three fifteen in the morning of typhoid fever on May 30, 1912. Not very glorious but true.

The first person to die was in September 17th, 1908 Lt Thomas Selfridge of the US Army was killed with a Wright Flyer piloted by Orville Wright. He was a passenger.

The most fun when someone is being arrogent and is blantantly wrong.

On 2nd thought, nevermind (go read the revisions if you still enjoy arguing). This is like talking to the wall. The hurd has spoken so I guess I'll drink the brown coolaid with everbody else.

What engineering school did you go to. I went to Purdue. I only have a bachelor's degree in ME and 5 years work experience.

Whatever type of school it was, guess the element of common sense was left out.

There is a difference between being close minded and rediculous man.

Who knows what may be happening in the future. But here on Earth, right here, right now, only a complete moron would try to learn to fly on a jet.

Even someone with absolutely no clue about aviation or RC experience has enough common sense to tell you that.

I am starting to think you are just a troll as no one in their right mind would be arguing that it is a good idea for someone to learn on a jet.

As far fetched as the original post was, it did not ask what do you tell someone who wanted to learn on a jet 100 years from now,lol.

Do you have any kids?

When there were growing up did you buy them a crotch rocket to learn on or a bicycle with trainer wheels?

If it was bicycle I suppose you are a sheep as the rest of us are.

Wings,

NOOO!!! Wings, I thought you were on my side. I guess I'm here by myself as usual. This side of the fence is were I belong anyway. I assure you this is not a troll and I have put thought into it. However, I don't think an educated answer to the original question should contain the words "stupid" or "moron". What is the scientific value of "stupid" again? I've tried to keep my answer within the bounds of non-personal facts and reasoning but I'm assuming I'll be personally attacked soon as usual so no more from me. The affects of the brown coolaid are take hold anyway.

Note: The mention of my credits was to simply point out that I'm not some mindless yahoo with a rocket strapped to my back, and not to brag or say I'm smarter than anybody else. My apologies.

Mike,
While there MAY be some philosophical basis for reality in what you argue (I doubt that anyone will ever train on a turbine), your statements are so far out of tune with what good common sense dictates, that people are bound to reply the way they do.

You see this happening time and time again with your posts, doesn't that give you pause to think? Being out of sync with the rest of the community, while it MAY mean you're a visionary, doesn't necessarily preclude the other possiblities.

People come here generally for advice with everyday common problems, or for options that might be available. The replies are generally (and rightly so) based on what is practical and safe. Flying off into the left field of reality doesn't help much.
Dennis-

I am not on any side!

Just step back and think about what you are saying.

Say a new guy comes up to you at the flying field. Are you honestly going to tell him to guy buy a turbine plane if he can afford it to learn on.

I think not, at least I hope not. That would but stupid any way you put it. Philisophically, scientifically stupid. And yes, that would classify anyone that gives that advice as a moron if you told them so.

Wings? do you notice, that you seem to keep coming up in these same threads that just drone on and on and on?

flyinrog,

I think you just made Wings "bad List" LOL

I don't read the original question as a serious "what if". In my mind this is exactly the type of conversation that it was intended to spark.

MikeMc: PUT DOWN THE KOOL AID!! Without your particular brand of far out, left field, bizarre ideas this whole thread would have been boring and short. We NEED you on the other side of that fence man!

Too funny guys. I actually read the whole thing just to see who wins. hahahahaha.

I actually flew jets for a guy who would not get in a single engine plane. He learned in a twin. Many said it was impossible, but he did it. When you have more money than sense, anything is possible.

You talk to walls?

I bet that 99% of the 'herd' in this thread are dying to see the video of a true beginner and his turbine when it flies. Give him 4-5 jets and you could make some money selling that video. This is kind of like the theory of the monkey and the typewriter. How many beginners does it take, and how many spectacular crashes does it take before one beginner actually learns to fly a turbine?

Yep, I was wrong about Wilbur's death. It was the other guy in the plane that died.

Hi guys,

Look, I don't want to argue or fight over this. In most cases I don't think any ideas are silly if they can be discussed logically and with reason. I've tried my best to use both to tell my side of the story but all I hear from the other side is "it's stupid" and/or "this is just the way it works". I know you guys have a lot of experience and are smart and I have respect for you. Some people think it's just funny (I don't), but if anybody would like to continue in a reasonable logical manner then I'm in. Other than that I don't want to argue or fight.

Wings, yes, you're right. I'm always on the other side of what is considdered normal and I believe adults (not children) should be allowed to think for themself. I don't see anything wrong with this. If I challange somebody's idea in a non-presonal way and they prove themself correct then it only makes their idea stonger. If they are wrong then that's good too. Heck I'm wrong all the time. Considder me RCU's QA department. You should be thankful to have rebels like me that know where to ask questions to either find flaws or to validate your own ideas. I'm not affraid to get beat up by the majority.

I myself got carried away and am sorry for the "wall" and norrow minded comments. Again, resonable logical discussion is welcome but I won't be responding to factless (or thougtless) "it's stupid" or any other non-serious comments.

My idea is that it is prudent to begin with a non-turbine glow engine aircraft. Electric park flyers are also a prudent choice. My idea is that if a beginner that has no prior RC flying experience asked what a good plane to learn on is and is told that he will be ok to learn with a turbine RC air craft, this advice is not wise to say the least.

Do you challenge this idea?

Well said. No, I do not challenge this idea. Sounds reasonable.

I will defer any of my comments to later this afternoon or tomorrow if anybody is interested. If there's no apparent interest then I'll be happy to keep them to myself.

Mike,
I certainly don't have any problem with you expressing "the other side of the fence" ideas. You always make me think about the extremes, which is a good thing.

I often don't agree with the fact that you present them in the "Beginners" forum, because new guys are often prone to taking advice that may be bad for them, simply because someone says it's okay. That's likely one of the primary reasons that you get "jumped" when you postulate on possiblilties.

But keep them coming, I agree with Frank that this thread would have died a quick and painful death without you.

Oh, and Wings, I generally enjoy your comments, but you need to take a moment after reading a post before you reply. None of Mike's statements warranted some of the "personal" insults that you lavished.
Dennis-

Thanks for the heads up DB.

Maybe my post was interpreted incorrectly or maybe I did not do a good job of expessing my intent but the following is the only post I see that could have been interpreted as a personal insult.

I was not saying the Mike was stupid. I know first hand that noone gets through engineering school if they are stupid.

What I was trying to say was that it would be stupid for anyone to recommend to a beginner to get a turbine plane. And I stand by my statement that only a moron would do that.

From Mikes latest post I conclude that he would not recommend this therefore my comments do not pertain to him personally.


Mike, sorry if you took that the wrong way.

Oh ya, Its FRIDAY! [sm=sunsmiley.gif]

Everyone have a great weekend at the field!


Wings