I know it has been discussed here before and I believe downunder uses it in his fuel.
I have aquired some Mobil Jet Oil II jet turbine oil and wonder if it will be sufficient to use in a fuel mixture ???
I was surprised that it came in a can, and on the back it says to avoid spilling on insulation, plastic, rubber or paint.
I haven't been to their website to do any reading up on it, I thought I would post here first to get a discussion going.

Mark

as long as it'll stay mixed into the Kero it's fine. mix some in a small container and let it sit a day or so and see if you have any separation.

I think he wants to use it in glow-fuel.

If that's the case, some is okay, some is not I'm thinking that the newer (version 2) oil has problems.

Also be aware that this stuff can have some pretty toxic combustion byproducts and I believe it also stains film/paint.

A better option would be the DTE Lite turbine oil. I think it's an Ester-based biodegradable turbine oil that should mix with methanol (but you'd need to confirm that).

Yep...looks exactly like the cans I had. I know that there's a generation 3 version which won't mix with methanol but never having seen those cans I can't say how they might be marked. This oil is the only one used in Australian military turbines and we didn't skimp on oil quality . It can stain certain finishes because of the heavy brown dye used in it but an alternative is BP2380 which is almost clear. It's specifications are a little lower than the Mobil but not enough to bother about for model use. Combustion byproducts aren't anything to worry about because...well...it's an oil and stays an oil . One aircraft I worked on (the Jindivik target drone) used a total loss oil system so all oil went into the tailpipe and got burned. However thus dint afect us att alll.

Thank you for the replies.
So even though it says on the can that to avoid spilling it on plastic and rubber it didn't harm the fuel tank and fuel lines ? I wonder why those warnings are on there.
When you mixed it with the methanol,did you use an empty glow fuel jug to put it in? What percentage oil did you use. And do you pour the oil in first or the methanol?
Also, if you didnt use a whole can of oil when you made the fuel, how did you store the oil that was left in the can since there is no way to reseal the can ?

Sorry for all the questions, these are just things I am coming up with that I haven't found the answers to. [sm=confused.gif]

Mark

It's a carcinogen so you want to avoid spilling it on anything, on plastics it will stain them, they'll darken considerably with continued use.

I had no problem with the jet oil other than it turned my plastic squeeze bottle (I fill the old fashioned way ) a dark brown but it didn't affect the fuel tank or lines. If you read the MSDS on it you'll find it's not carcinogenic and is quite safe to handle but I wouldn't advise drinking it .

I mixed 17% jet oil with methanol and no nitro. I just poured the right amount in a container, topped up with methanol, gave it a good shake and went flying. The can with the remaining oil was just covered with cling wrap plastic to stop dust getting in but you could always pour it into a clean screw top jar or whatever. For interest's sake, I found this oil to be ideal for lubricating the plain bearings in my Myford ML7 lathe as well (drip feed).

It didn't ?????? LOL

Mark

I downloaded the MSDS Sheet off the Exxon website and read it through. I was also told that any used motor oil can be a carcinogen.
How much of the fuel did you mix up at once?

Mark

I will try that too
My wife brought me home some castor from the drugstore the other day and I mixed up a small batch and after a couple of days I could see some separation. Maybe I didnt mix it well enough. I know that is not the castor to use but I wanted to try it and see what happened.

Mark

Maybe things work differently down in Oz but here in the northern hemisphere in the south eastern US synthetic turbine oil stains the lines and the tanks. the lines on my fueling jug are replaced once a year, these are less then 6 months old, the startup/taxi tank is about 1 yr old and well stained too.

When the lines are darkened like that, do they turn hard ? What does the carb and the inside of the muffler look like?
Also, what % of oil are you running?

Mark

the lines do get hard and brittle that's why i replace them at least every other year on the aircraft and yearly on the fuel jug, i don't run turbine oil in anything but my turbines so there are no carbs or muffler but the fuel needles are clean and spotless after 25 hrs of run time, tail cone and pipe are as well. we only run 5% oil in our fuel, at 17% with methanol I'd guess the staining would be much worse.

KC, what kind of fuel do you run your turbines on?

I just mixed up a 1000ml batch of fuel with 15% oil to see what would happen. I really didn't even have to shake it much to mix it so when I come home from work tomorrow we will see if it is still mixed.
I just put it in a clean glass container for now.

Mark

Kerosene and Jet A, whichever happens to be least expensive when I'm running low.

Got home from work today and the oil is still mixed with the methanol.
I have OS hot plugs and castor oil coming and I have to go and get some acetone so when that comes in I will make a mix up, just not sure of the oil percentages I am going to use yet.
Downunder I know I read somewhere that you raise the compression of your motors. My GMS 47 has 3 head gaskets and I am going to take 2 of them out before I try this fuel, the Irvine I will just leave as is.
Did you raise the C/R by machining the top of the sleeve some way???

Mark

What % formula fuel will you do
methanol %
Turbine oil %
Castor oil %
Acetone %
Nitro???


balsaeater

I'm not sure but I am open to suggestions

Mark

I've read when using acetone to use 3%
Is there a specific reason for the 3% ?

Mark

My understanding is acetone helps with tick over but does nothing for top end power so 3% is all that is needed to replace 5% nitro which does the same funcion

Nitro Methane helps with tick over low ed tourque and high end power

Nitro costs often 3 to 10 times the price of Acetone

Using high compression motors types can restore the power lost from low nitro or zero nitro
Then using Acetone to help tick over for these motors can be a lot cheaper than nitro solutions

However Acetone can evaporate out of the fuel easily and may require replacement

My understanding is Turbine oil is used at 2 to 3% as extra protection for the main oil type such as 15% synthethic in USA or 8% EDL as in Europe

A typical budget formula I gather is
methanol 80%
Acetone 3%
Oil synthetic 15%
Turbine oil 2 %


Balsaeater

I don't know why you'd add low percentages of turbine oil to your fuel when a *good* synthetic is rather similar turbine oil anyway in its base-stock formulation.

Perhaps adding it to your typical Klotz/Coolpower oils but not if you go for a decent synthetic in the first place... it's like diluting water with more water a waste of time and effort.

I was thinking about 15% Turbine Oil
2% Castor
3% Acetone
80% Methanol

Mark

Everything finally came together today.
The fuel has been mixed for a week sitting in a jug. I got the head for the GMS 47 back and installed on the engine and the engine installed in my Twist 40. The weather finally co operated today and we got a flight in.
After filling the tank with 0% we started the engine and set the idle.
Went through a few idle to full throttle transitions till both the low and high speed needles were set to our satisfaction.
The idle needed to be set a bit higher with the radio with this 0% fuel as compared to the 10 % Omega that I use but the engine would sit there and idle as long as you wanted it to.
I also don't think the needles are anymore sensitive now as they were with the 10% fuel.
I let Rob, who is one of my instructors and who was telling me how to do the needle adjustments fly the plane. I told him not to baby the plane. Do every stunt you can think of just to put the motor through its paces. Either make it fly or break it !!!!!!
So after getting the plane into the air and a bit of trim work, he went to town with it. I have a 12.25 x 3.75 APC prop on the plane. Unlimited verticle and it did everything Rob asked it to.
He said that it could actually use a prop with more pitch as the engine would wind up instantly when he gave it full throttle and seems to run out of rpm on a full throttle pass. The motor would just scream.
It left a nice trail of exhaust behind the plane and oil on the wing and stab to be cleaned off after the flight.
We did notice that the engine ran a bit hotter than with the 10% fuel but it still ran like a champ.
I need to get more flights on it, of course to get a more long term effect of the fuel, but I am very happy with the results we got today.
Next on the list it to convert the Irvine 53 in my 4 Star and the OS 46 in my Nexstar to the 0% fuel.
Thanks to Downunder and everyone else who helped me with this fuel experiment.

Mark

this is good news. I hope you run these engines for several flights then disassemble for inspection. Please let us know
if the ongoing flights have the same power as the first. Did you use the 15% turbine oil? As I recall, and this was almost 20 years
ago when I worked for Avco Lycoming turbine division, the oil was made to mil spec 7808 so you can check the flash point and compare it to
castor or synthetic glow oil. Interestingly enough 7808 did not specify synthetic or organic oil so that some was synthetic and some organic, that is, it was made with animal fat. You could always tell when you were using certain brands because in the summer heat they smelled awful.

What is tick over? Acetone only helps with detonation as far as I know. That is it does not do the same thing as nitro, decrease sensitivity to fuel air mixture. Only good for high compression engines and with high nitro. Other wise all it does is reduce power and make the needles more sensitive.