seems like R2 doesn't want to touch both jigs. all the rest seem right-on or very close. I tried fitting it upside down (just to check how it touches the jigs) and it's much closer, the other R2 does the same thing. gap looks like almost 1/16 inch. looking at the rib i can see something is wrong, exactly what is going to take a much closer examination. Any suggestions....

Not sure as all the parts are laser cut and nothing has changed with this kit for 3+ years. The wings are built upside down so obviously the slots for the aileron mounts should face up as you have them in the picture. Slide in the wing tube socket to double check that you have these ribs properly oriented. Only the wing tube socket is asymetrical given the tapered wing however the outline of the rib is symetrical so even flipping it over would not matter. The only thing that comes to mind that would offset the rib would be the position of the main spar on the board of which the rib fits over. make sure it is pinned over the plans properly. Other than that just make sure the rib trailing edge rests on the jigs provided. If you have to move them in a little and pin in place.

I figured out what is not right. As you can see from the picture below, the rib is not straight, it is actually a little concaved. all the other ribs are straight at this same area. I can add a bit of balsa to correct this on both sides on both ribs (both R2 ribs are bowed in like this. should i make the correction or is it supposed to be bowed in as the picture indicates ????

Outssider,
There is no way that slight amount of curve will affect the overall length of the rib or alignment on the jigs. We are talking probably hundreds of an inch relative to overall length and spar locations. My recommendation is build per the instructions and weight the wing panels (per instructions) while you sheet. Also, the instructions recommend tack gluing the ribs to the jigs as you progress.

Believe it or not I have the exact same problem. Rib R2 just isn't right. I tacked all of my ribs to the wing template. Exactly 90 degrees in perfect alignment with the plans. When I eyed up the TE of the Ail. I could see that something just wasn't right. R2 was sitting too low. What I did was drew a centerline on rib 2 and set it in place so that the measurements were the same from LE to TE. I then ran a straight edge from R2 to R10 at the TE. of the ailerons. I clamped all the ribs to the straight edge. As far as I can tell, as long as the end ribs are sitting parallel to the table and all the rest are straight in line with these 2 ribs then everything should be fine.. Mine was off by 5MM. I checked it with the other R2 thinking that maybe it was just a coincedence but both R2 are the exact same size. I wish I took a picture. My only hope is that when I turn the wing over to finish off the top everything is lined up.
Something tells me that the second wing will have the same troubles. If so, I will post pics early on so maaybe Mike can tell me whats going wrong.

EDIT: I will note that the wing tube phenolic was a perfect fit.

Edit 2. Outssider. My suggestion is (mike correct me if I am wrong) mark a center line on rib R2. Make sure that line is parallel to your building board. If it isn't make adjustments as necessary. I believe that is the most important part.

Yes please post some pics on the second wing but you are right in that all the ribs must be parallel to the building board at all times. So if you draw a center line on the rib from le to te and check against the board just make sure it is parallel. That is what the jig does for you and why it is tapered from root to tip. If the wing tube does not fit into the holes then you have one of the ribs upside down. They are marked and the tube should also be parallel to the building board (i.e the top of the wing).

Mike. Here is a picture that i took last night. At this point I was in the middle of trying to diagnose the problem. This picture was taken after I saw that there was a problem. I layed a straight edge in the large groove where I will be cutting the ail. away later on. Initially, R2 was way below the rest of the ribs. I also clamped a straight edge all the way at the TE of the ail. I then raised R2 so that the cutout was in line with the rest of the ribs. As you can see, in this position, the TE of the Ail. is 5mm above the straight edge . R2 was also up off the wing root template at this point. It was very confusing.

This is what i did to fix. I added some material as can be seen on the photos. sr1 is also off (added material to it also but not in photos). r2 is now about the same size toward the trailing edge as the root and r3. I believe that the root rib should be a little larger at the trailing edge also, to completely correct this problem. This would make the root the largest (the way it should be). I am starting the second wing today with the corrected r2 and sr1. Mind you , this is not a perfect fix but much better than it was...with the fix the aileron cap fits very close. without the fix the aileron will narrow at the root and the cap would not fit right (could easily be sanded though)

Outssider. Just a quick question. The aileron jig. Is it placed all the way at the end of your ailerons or is it inset a bit. It seems that it would be difficult to install AS2 without gluing everything to the template.

This thread is starting to overlap with the other Hybrid Edge thread:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6682446/tm.htm

See my answers there regarding the wing jigs. But yes you can inset the jigs slightly if you want to to prevent gluing to it. That would be a builder's preference. Again it is important to keep the ribs parallel to the board as measured along the center line of the ribs. Outsider, the ribs are all laser cut and the profiles are designed for a specific reason. Modifying the ribs is not necessary. Build per the plans and follow the instructions and you will have no problems.

Sorry Mike. I will try to contain myself to this thread. I began construction of wing 2 tonight. I ran into the same problem. I took some pics along the way so maybe we can figure this out. I don't think R2 is the problem. It is either builder error OR R 3&4. I want to stress up front that my building table is perfctly flat.
I will skip the prep work as laminating R1 and R1A doesn't have any bearing.
I will post this in multiple threads.
Let's start with pic 1
In pic 1 I have pinned the main spar to the board in perfect alignment. I have also pinned down the wing template. The templase is mounted flush with the root and in alignment with the plans. This is also sitting flush with the building board.

Pic 2 just shows the center lines on R1 and R10. I also marked the center of the other ribs in case I needed to check them.

In pic 3. I have glued all of the Ribs to the main spar. I used a square to ensure that they are 90 degrees to the board. I also lned the TE up with the plans using a square and tacked the ribs to the wing template.

At this point I installed the 2nd spar. No pics but I installed the spar then used my square to ensure they remained at 90 degrees to the building surface before gluing.

At this point, everything shoulod be fine. However once again, when I look down the TE of the Ail. It is clear that I have a problem. This pic was taken from the first wing I built and I am using it here because I had a real good picture showing the problem. I believe this is the same problem noutssider has. As you can see in the pic. R2 seems to be sitting to low. Actually, when I put the straight edge on the wing, R2 is 3/16" below the straight edge as the pic shows.

So by now im thinking to myself *** is going on. I then decided to take center line measurements of ALL the ribs. Here is my findings. I am measuring in MM for accuracy.

R1 - LE 53mm TE 54MM
R2 LE 50MM TE 49MM
R3 LE 46MM TE 49MM
R4 LE 43MM TE 46.5 MM
R5 LE 40MM TE 42.5 MM
R6 LE 38MM TE 40MM
R7 LE 36 TE 36.5MM
R8 LE 32.5MM TE 34.5M
R9 LE 30.5MM TE 32MM
R10 LE28.5MM TE 30MM

I realize that we need to allow for a little warping in the balsa and for the most part, all of the ribs are within 2MM front to back but you can see that something is wacky in R3,4, and 5. Not sure how to handle this. The only way I can get all of the center lines to be the same is if I begin reshaping ribs or cutting notches in the template. None of which are desireable.
Sooooo. Any idea on what may be going on?

I want to add 1 more thing. I took a measurement of the ail le on R2 and R3. R2 is 28MM and R3 is 33MM. That's just not right. The ail will get thinner at the root. I just can't continue until we get this fixed.
For comparison I had to go all the way to R9 to find another rib at 28MM.

I guess my fix will be to place a small ( 1/16") shim between R2 and the wing template to bring R2 up flush wth the rest of the ribs. when I do that, it will be substantially lower when I flip the wing over so I will do something similar to what outssider did to pack up the rib. As I glance under the wing on my board the problem seems to continue up most of the rib. Seems that we both have the same condition.
My only concern is that I still don't know if R2 is the problem or R3,4, and 5. Needless to say that the center line on R2 is off by 3MM. Rason being I guess is I should pack up both sides rather than 1. Something needs to be done about this.

It's 1:00 Am so excuse me if I am rambling.

crash....

what you have discovered is the exact thing that i discovered in my original post. I spent several hours trying to figure out exactly what is going on. If you put a straight edge on all your ribs the way i did on my original first pictures, you will see that all ribs are straight except for r2....r2 is concaved at the trailing edge (this is why it is narrower at this point than r3, see picture below). I'm not completely sure what is going on but i "think" that not only r2 needs to be bigger at the trailing edge but the root rib r1 needs to be fatter at the trailing edge. I only fixed r2 and the little sr1...so my aileron will not narrow at the root. The way i'm set up now, r3 is as fat as my wing gets (at the trailing edge) r2 and r1 are the same at the trailing edge as r3. So if you were to put a straight edge on the top of my wing at the trailing edge, you would see a slight hump at r3. there could also be other problems with the trailing edges of the other ribs. I think my fix is the easiest way around this problem.

answer your question ....I put the jigs back as far as possible and shifted over to the r1 ribs as much as possible to get the trailing edge of the wing as low as possible because my trailing edge seemed to be a bit high when comparing center points of the ribs.

i was careful with the ca, i think as2 will not stick to the jig...this is the second wing. the first wing also needed the jigs to be as low as possible. also, since the wing jig is so far back, i can't put on the bottom ws2 until i turn the wing over.

ps...all those pieces ws1 ws2 as2 as1.. ...even the ws1 leading edge cap...the slits to fit into the ribs were off a hair requiring re-slitting.

Thanks for your input. Here is what I am considering doing.. I believe that the most important thing I can do is use my center lines and make sure that all of my ribs are parallel to the building board. Then I will glue a 1/8" balsa cap all along R2 from the spar all the way back to the Ail TE. Then usinng my 36" sanding bar, sand R2 to match the contour of the wing.

I wish I had saved the balsa sheets that I pulled the ribs out of so I could compare them to the ribs on the other wing to see exactly what the problem is. Oh well. It isn't the end of the world.

On the other running Hybrid thread I mentioned that this is my third Hybrid kit. I was asked what happened to the first two. The answer is that on both occasions, after finishing the first wing and having a chance to really eye things up, both instances the wing was messed up. To the point that I didn't feel it was worth trying to fix. I initially thought that my building skills were the problem, however I now realize that the problem seems to be somewhere in the rib structure. The only difference is that on the first 2 attempts, I didn't take the time to check rib alignment the way I did on this one. I set up R1 and R10 properly and just ASSUMED that the rest of the ribs would fall into place.

In my first wing, initially I had the problem with R2 seemingly sitting to low, however, with a little bit of re-positioning I was able to get ti right. On this wing, however, even with R2 up and flush on the bottom of the wing, it is way out of wack on the top. I don't know. This has me stumped.
What bothers me is that SR1 aileron root rib is the same size as R2 which indicates that R2 is the correct size and maybe the rest of the ribs are off.
Lets see what Mike thinks after reading these posts. Maybe he can offer a suggestion. Certainly he can give us certain points of reference on R2 and R3 that we can measure and compare to his CAD design.

Guys, sorry for the delay. I have been away most of this week at a conference and have had very little internet time. Let me review the above closely and I'll get back on shortly. Thanks!

crash...

me too !! sr1 did match r2 aileron portion.....this is why i was standing in front of my building board so long with no answer..[]...scratching my head.....it seemed as though this was designed into the wing....the ribs are so nicely laser cut...it didn't look like a mistake on the part of omp [>:]......or the cutting of the ribs..... but i just could not let go of the fact that ...

1....r2 didn't sit right on both jigs while all the rest did...
2....r2 is narrower at the trailing edge than r3 and the root (although not much narrower at the root rib, almost the same)

if you build without changing anything and just use the aileron jig as the main guide letting r2 not touch the wing te jig, the wing will have a dip at r2 at the trailing edge and the aileron.

as you can see from the pictures, i have no dip at r2. r3 ,r2 and the root rib are now the same thickness at the te. the wing reaches it's fatest point at r3 (measuring only at the te ) so if you put a 4ft straight edge on the trailing edge of the wing, you can see that the wing stops getting thicker at r3. r10 through r3 are straight.

I was scratching my head also. I realize that this is not a big deal. I mean 1. It's easy to fix and 2. This ain't no pattern ship. I't just has me baffled. On another note. 1st wing is complete. Weight is 1lb 9OZ. with hinges and aileron. 2nd wing is layed up. LE sheeting is installed on the bottom of th wing. All I have left is sheeting the servo bay and the Ail. and I can flip this baby over. At this point outssider, on the bottom of my wing, the wing tapers all the way from R1 to R10. It doesnt level out at R3. I don't know what it will look like when I flip it over. I am going to post pics of what's there and how I fix it. Also I think I'll post pics of the reinforcements I used for the single servo setup. Just so Mike can look and give me the OK. Should be finishing the wing by Sunday night some time.

Well, real quick, here it is.
I took the piece supplied with the kit and sanded off the tabs. I then layed it over a piece of 1/8" ply and used it as a template to draw out a larger version. I glued them together, drilled them out then glued them in place with the larger piece towards the sheeting.

Hey guys, I just got done taking a close look at a complete kit set of ribs and I think you have both discovered that R2 is in fact thinner at the trailing edge (aileron hinge line) than the surrounding ribs. From what I can tell the error is roughly 1/16th or less both sides. This is actually amazing to me as the Hybrid has been in production since fall of 2003 and I've lost count on how many have been built by customers. Nobody has ever reported an issue in building or flying in this regard. Again, I think Crash makes the most important statement in that the ribs need to be parallel to the board at all times for the wing to remain symetrical. I did check the centerlines of the ribs and they are completely symetrical so there is no problem there. With R2 slightly thinner then yes it will appear that the wing will slightly thicken at R3. This is absolutely no issue and obviously no problems with flight performance. Heck, it could even be a positive thing. If you add some balsa to R2 then make sure you do it symetrically to avoid warping the wing. Follow the instruction tip and measure the leading and trailing edge centerlines to assure the ribs are parallel to the board. Hope this helps!

Thanks mike. That takes a load off my mind. I was going crazy trying to figure out what I might have done wrong. 1/16th on both sides sounds about right. That would drop the rib 1/8" ( 4MM)below the surrounding ribs when it is setting on the template.I believe my measurement was 5MM but what's 1MM amongst friends. .As I said I just brought R2 up flush with the other ribs on the wing bottom and I will add balsa strips as necessary to build up the top. Although this will have the center line measurement off a bit it will "trick" the rib and all should be fine. I will do the same with sr1.
Outssider, hows the build coming along?

Mike, I would also like to mention that when sheeting the ailerons, the sheeting isn't quite wide enough to cover the whole ail. It should be done with a 4" and a 3" piece rather than a 4" and a 2".
In the pic below, the clamp is on the ail. TE not the sheeting. In this particular instance, I lost about 1/4" on the 4" piece of sheeting when I trued the edges because the piece was warped a bit but even on the other ail I had to add a strip to cover. Not a big deal but a pain none the less.

Crash...Yep me too! sheeting didn't quite make it.

I'm a bit confused with something you said. You said that if you run a straight edge on top of your wing (trailing edge), there is no gap at r2 and root rib. don't see how that could be possible if the ribs stop getting fatter at r3 (my r3, r2 and root rib are now about the same thickness at the te). To get the results you say would require making r2 a bit fatter than r3 and making the root rib even larger than r2. ????

I am finishing up the framing of the second wing today and i will have both wings off the building board permanently. I chose to frame up both wings one at a time. I will then add the trailing edges, le, caps and such to both wings at the same time. I will also sand in the leading edge to both wings (little at a time) to both wings at the same time. I have sanded in leading edges a few times in my hobby career and I hate it !! do you or mike have any advice/tricks. Last time i did this a built the omp 80" yak. I did one wing half then the other. After i compared the two leading edges they were slightly different [&o] ...had to play with them to get them the same. I even had gone through the trouble of building a guide to hold the sand paper in a curve. I really thought it would give be a consistent curve but it didn't work at all ( another big waste of time). It took me a while to build that contraption and about a minute of use to figure out it wasn't going to work...[:@]

Outssider. I really cant answer your question. I din't know why. If I lay a straight edge on my wing it touches the surface all the way from R1 to R10. It was my assumption that r1 was the right size. This method of construction is quite tricky. Maybe all large planes are built with this same jig system but I could lay my ribs on the template seemingly in perfect position. Measure and eye it up to find something is screwy. Cut the ribs from the template, set them back in the same place and they fall right into alignment. The margin for error is definately ZERO.
Looking at your pic in my opinion, you are fine.Again, this plane is designed to do most of its flying at or below stall speeds. Heck even our flat winged foamies fly fine at those speeds. Not saying that at higher speeds you are going to encounter a problem.

As far as the leading edge goes, what I do is I take my small razor plane to knock the corners down. It eally cuts down on the amount of sanding I need to do. Then I go along with my 12" sanding bar and sand both sides to match the contour of the wing. This gets me close. Now all that's left is rounding it off. For this I take a piece of sandpaper roughly 2" wide x 12" long, wrap it around the LE and with the wing standing on its TE I work the sandpaper in an up and down motion . This really rounds it off nice. I try to do a good job but I cant say I am anal about getting it perfect. Especially on a plane like this that is designed for slow speed flight. I did the best I could to show you how I do it. It is a bit tricky keeping the wing balanced.

Edit: Outssider, I don't see a center line drawn on R1. Are you sure that R1 is level to your board. Also curious to know if you have that same flat spot when you flip your wing over.