I needed to bump this to the front page for reference....Pauly,,,,you better get with it man...I got my wing built........I also poked my fingers thru the LE sheeting 3 times.....oops....G

You're killing me man.... I'm gonna have to build all night just to keep up....

this is a good thread for sledge builders to read up on/....G

I've GOT to get one of these......

I'm really looking forward to finishing my Sledge 540... but I did see some things I think should be considered when building the wing (and Jeff maybe some manual changes)


Jeff was wondering why wgeffons shear webs (Jeff calls them I-Beam pieces) didn't go full across the span between ribs....wgeffon told him because the material wasn't wide enough.

To elaborate on this, the manual shows placing the shear webs with the grain running horizontal (or from root to tip) this is INCORRECT. Shear web grain should run vertical (from spar to spar). Their reason for being isn't necessarilly to "shore up" the spars, but to keep all the entire assembly from collapsing like a cardboard box without a top or bottom. Horizontal grain simply can split and fold, while vertical grain is like ripping a phone book in half...

Now while a funfly design may not put enough stress on this area to really be concerned, simply orienting the grain vertical will increase the shear strength of the wing immensely with no weight gain. I used some VERY light 6" wide 1/16 sheeting...


Secondly, I really dislike the leading edge setup. There simply isn't a way to get a nice round LE on the wing without seriously weakening the sheeting at the leading edge. (see pic) I'll probably lay another piece of 1/4" balsa on top and round it around too... The wing is very light and another ounce wouldn't hurt it.

Lastly, the wing is built (basically) in two halves. The design does not allow for any spars to cross the center of the wing. Even the spar doublers and leading edge are "seamed" at the center of the wing. No joiners, nothing. This creates a weak wing prone to folding. While again it may not happen with a funfly (I really put some twists and spins on mine) it would be easy to modify the design without adding any real weight.

I plan on sanding 1/4 slots in the ribs (top and bottom) across the center 5 ribs W1's thru W3'w and laying a 1/4" balsa spar in to tie across those ribs. It'll add MAYBE 1/4 oz.


Now I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Jeff and his design... It looks like it'll come out light and probably will fly great... but these are some basic design things that shouldn't be left out.

My kit has very good wood except the 3/8"... I replaced with medium hardness and saved 1.2 oz over 3 sticks!!! ... they were LOGS. And they left out the plywood hatches ( I called and am sure they'll send em a set out). It also didn't come with a tailwheel... the plans show a skid but even Jeff shows in the manual he went with the optional skid.

Alright... 'nuff said... back the the workshop...

Morbid, all input and critique is accepted. However, the grain is not incorrect, if you build it exactly like I show it in the manual it will yield a strong wing, I have done compression test on both methods. We are all used to running the grain vertical for compression, but my method is tested. It is just different that what we have all been taught. In the big picture, it is a funfly, like you say, and either way will work. I have my method you have yours and that is fine.
The wings center sheeting attaches the spars and makes it plenty strong, there has not been one wing failure on the sledge that I know about, so the suggested method is fine. If we were to add some kind of attach point it would add weight that is not needed for a stronger structure, it is strong enough for its purpose. I have done full throttle straight down blenders and the plane held up, however I do not recommend doing that. Again, if you change it that is up to you, that is why we get kits. I too do not like the leading edge but Morris wanted it that way and I initially had something different. I probably should stop with that said. I wish you the best in your sledge experience. Jeff W.

First off, I've seen planes up to the 120 to 160 size with horizontal webs. I doubt it's a big deal here at all. Vertical is stronger, but as mentioned, this is a 4 pound fun fly, intended to fly around at 15 or 20 miles per hour. I even asked Jeff about leaving them out completely, but he warned me not to.

I also considered adding a piece of light balsa to get a rounder LE, but then decided just to get on with it. There could have been a little more there.

I don't seen the center section of the wing as a problem on this plane. If it were a pylon racer, I'd be worried. Has anyone done snap rolls with the Sledge. Inside snaps put huge pressure in the center of the wing. How about a blender. That has to be the acid test for a wing center. Some of the sheeting crosses the center, as does the CA tape. I worried about it as I first read the plan, but after building the wing, I'm happy with it's strength.

I don't think any of the small Morris kits come with a tailwheel. I do not like the skids, so I usually go with a Sullivan tailwheel. I doubt Jeff has any say in the matter. That's more of a Robert thing.

I was not impressed with the consistemcy or quality of the wood in my kit. Once again, not a Jeff thing. I've read people who say, "The quality and density of the wood was consistent with it's intended purpose." Mine was not. There were 3 or 4 sheets of acceptable wood for sheeting. The rest was crap. The wood for ribs was ok, as was most of the 1/4 squares. All of the other wood was crap. I nearly replaced it all, but then just said, "oh well, I guess it ain't gonna be a 3.5 pounder." and built it. The plane is now built and about 1/2 covered. I do not see it's weight as extreme.

I did make two changes.

I've read a few people who put 3/4 of an ounce to an ounce of lead in the tail for balance. I moved one of my HS-225MGs to just in front of the horizontal stab for elevator control. I hope it balances ok. I'll use a piece of Monokote to conceal the wire.

The second "mod" isn't my fault at all. It's my Exacto saw. It made the elevators and rudder one inch oversize. I've scolded the saw, and it promises to be a good saw from now on. I plan to call my plane the "Sledge 540 XLT". It means eXtra Large Tail. See logo below.

At this point, I'm happy with the plane. I just gotta fly it before final judgement is passed.

Its probably in this thread but I will repeat what I said regarding the shear webs or I-beams..

I initially was concerened about the grain orientation in the instructions. I called Jeff and he assured me that the loads placed on a fun fly wont be enough to matter..

My webs dont run the full lenght of the bay because I used the supplied 3" wood for the webs. The bays are wider than that. I butted them up against the inner rib, and the top and bottom spars..

The design has no spars than cross the wing centerline but that doesnt matter because the sheeting goes all the way across on the top and bottom.

This wing will not fold if the plane is flown with the recommended engines and flown within its envelope. (which is pretty wide)

Thanks Jim for your explanation.

I didn't mean anything as a personal attack, just saw some things that didn't jive with what I've learned that's all, and haven't seen anyone else mention them.

I've made my mods based on what I feel comfortable with and offered them as options for anyone else wanting to do so.

I have been seriously considering working on my own designs... I've looked into what all's involved, and I take my hat off to you for your initiative.

I really look forward to finishing the plane and lfying the daylights out of it... from all I've heard (and you're right I've not heard of any failures) it's a real performer.

That is exactly why I bought it. I've come to trust certain people's opinon based on their prior posts I've read. And wgeffon happens to be one of them. He loves the plane.. it MUST be good...

Now...

While you're reading this post...

What about balance?

I am going to use a Saito .72 on it… I’d LOVE to mount the servos, HS-225’s, in the tail rather than do pull/pull…

Seems some have had to add an ouce in the tail anyway...
I also thought about moving the wing back ½” to help…

Any thoughts on this? Anyone?

I ran my webbing vertical on my sledge on the LE side of the spar.
The SLEDGE does have a blount LE. I remember thinking that it 's gonna be tough to get that LE any rounder.
I was also concerned about the center section joining. Just wicking some CA between the 2 center ribs, did not "Blow my Skirt up", but joining the center section with the sheeting and the CA tape has proven to be a strong set-up......I dont even think about the wings folding up doing blenders or violent snaps.......
The SLEDGE is a KILLER 3D plane...I love mine....Gator

ANOTHER of those people I respect their opinion...

Thanks Term!

I have a YS.63 on mine and the servos in the wing. I added no weight anywhere and it balances about 1" back from the spar.

Mine with the Saito .72 balanced right where the plans called for but I added 3/4 oz under the TE of the stab. (right in front of the hinge line) to make it a little more tail heavy.

Totally cool plane. I took it out Tuesday night and was deadsticking it in, fueling it up and flying back to back.

Mordib

You said- "I didn't mean anything as a personal attack, just saw some things that didn't jive with what I've learned that's all, and haven't seen anyone else mention them."

I've made a bunch of posts around here and even some threads on the exact same things you mentioned...Go do a search. I didn't have a great time building this thing! Besides the contruction techniques, I replaced every singe 1/4 inch stick and 5/8 in the kit...

I did my shear webs just like Wayne. That's how I learned it and how I did it on my first couple kits.. I am pretty sure Jeff's way would be stronger, but I'm lazy.

As far as the LE goes I just sanded it at the top and bottom and left it completely flat. Chuck Auger won't like it, but it works!

As far as the wing joint, I still don't like it. I've done many full speed snaps, spins, blender, walls, all the stuff you should not do with a FunFly. The wing has taken it. Everytime I start one of those manuevers the picture of the wing joint always pops into my head and I wonder "will this be the one"? It hasn't given up yet though and is obviously just as strong as any other wing.

I used a Dubro tail wheel setup.

You should not have balance problems. I've got a pro .46 and the CG is about .5-1 inch back from the spar.

Now aside from the building and pull pull setup, it is one good flying airplane! The BEST 3D airplane I have flown. High alpha KE (Isn't it always high alpha?) is really easy, harriers (with spoilerons) are really stable with absoultely NO wing rocking, elevators are decent. Flat spins are OK, but the spin rate is slow. My high alpha rolls are halfway decent and inverted flight is eays...

I will continue to complain about the kit, but always end up bragging about how well they fly!

I can't wait to build mine... I flew Gator's some up in Indy and it's just soo much more graceful that anything else I fly.... My SuDoKhoi is kind of a junk yard dog.. where as the SuDoKhoi is more like a ballerina..... My Sud will do a lot of the same stuff... it just growls at you when it goes by where the sledge will wink at you and blow a kiss..... (I know I'm taking this analogy too far... but I couldn't resist)

Definitely one of the sweetest flying profiles I've flown....

I was thinking of completely changing the design and adding a CF tube to the center of the fuse with a pocket in the wing....

If my wing does fold up on me one day....I will still have alot of good memories with this plane. I'd be on the ph with Morris to get another..... till then,,,I'm gonna put it to the test and wring it out as best I can......


Love the Hi-alpha KE slow pass.....not to mention the TR'n, probably the easiest planeto TR that I have owned

I watched Chris Henson from Extreme flight fly Gator's Sledge at Indy. He was flying it fast doing full aileron deflection rolling loops. It scared me as I always keep my speed down, but it held together. If it will take that most everything we throw at it will be no problem. Tom

here's a couple pics of my SLEDGE wing

another shot of the right wing

Hmm...My leading edge is FLAT.

Wow that pic turned out kinda big and close up! And it used to be prettier befor a series of contacts with Terra Firma

Yeah, you have to WANT a round leading edge. I swear I added no material to the LE before I shaped it.. And I bet Gator didn't, either. I WANTED a round LE, and I got it.

I wanted one...

Then get thee an 80 grit sanding block and some elbow grease! And a fearless pursuit of rounded LE's!!

nothing added to my LE