djr1007

take a look at this one, direct rip off from GP, or maybe the patent has run out.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Eagle-3D-RC-Radi...QQcmdZViewItem

RC MANIAC119

My Feedback: (14)

Well....the original U-Can-Do was flying do-do!! Guess they ripped off the wrong design...........

Gringo Flyer

My Feedback: (18)

Thats not the first shameless rip off.

Just ask the guys at OMP where the Fusion is showing up.

CopperheadAV

Nore will it be the last! [:@]

http://www.hobby10.com/default.asp?me=mopro&b=AVGL0010

Sure looks like a Fusion 90 to me??

And my Fav is the Radioactive sing they took off the OMP box [X(]

Seems like we weren’t the only ones to get a shipment of Fusions??

aussiesteve

That company had the "U-Can do" shamelessly on display at the Shanghai and Beijing expos last year (as well as a few other "very good replicas" - I mentioned to them that they should probably change the names (or put no name at all on them) if they wanted to sell them on the international market but they didn't seem to think it was a problem. - I wonder what will happen now.

Maybe they come from the same factory that makes certain other "Name branded" planes.

Very often the factories get commissioned to supply a certain number of planes by a client. The client then inspects the finished product and rejects ones that aren't up to scratch. Very often those rejects are seen on the likes of flea-bay as "bargains" which are snapped up by the unsuspecting public.

As an example, There is one very well established "Asian based" (but not from Mainland China) "manufacturer" that pays the manufacturer a 30% deposit for the planes (which is not enough to cover all the materials for the order). They then inspect the final product, reject whatever needs to be rejected and the money paid so far comes off the total for the accepted planes.

When you consider that many of the factories farm out the assembly to smaller places, then the total rejection rate from the original order quantity can be very high (the factories themself reject some before the original client gets to inspect them). Just keep that in mind when you see a "look alike - bargain" for sale in a non branded box.

CopperheadAV

No No No, that’s not the way it works! I can assure you no designer agrees to your vision. It my be true when it comes to a Chinese plane that was designed by the factory and is licensed to a distributor in a particular Country. But not when a design that was consigned to a factory to be built for a singular company like the U Can Do and the Fusion was, it’s out right stealing.

I own a factory in China. If I sold any of my customer’s designs to another distributor, US or any other country, I would be out of business and in court! My stuff would be their stuff! Any plane we make that are defective, we eat

aussiesteve

Sorry - It's a fact.
I am not saying that all of the factories do it that way - I agree that there are some extremely competent and ethical ones (including yours).

I agree that very few designers would agree to selling their designs to multiple customers. The issue is from the factories that are contracted to produce for particular companies.

Allow me to explain.

Company "X" asks manufacturer "Y" to manufacture say 200 of a particular design. Because of internal rejection rates, Manufacturer "Y" actually makes 230 planes but presents the best 200 of them to Company X. Company "X" then accepts say 195 of them and pays for them. So far so good - Company "X" has their planes (with an apparently low rejection rate which is within their agreed terms). Meanwhile manufacturer "Y" has 35 planes that they have not received any income from. Those planes are often put on the market as some other brand - or are sold on an auction site as a "non branded" item. They are rarely presented as the original item. It is not the designer that has done this - it is the manufacturer.

At no point has the designer agreed to sell his design to another customer - those sales often take place without his knowledge. Meanwhile there are claims of "copying" of designs being made.

I have seen it happen. It is not just a vision.

I know of your companies products and I agree that they are one of the most ethical companies to deal with - unfortunately not all manufacturers are as ethical. I have experienced the other side of that first hand.

CopperheadAV

I agree with you when it comes to break pads, shingles and those things that can go under the radar. RC is such a close niche market; it's hard to get away with it. I have the opportunity of meeting with many manufactures to discuss all the issues we face as far as Balsa, the de-valuation of the US dollar and the high labor costs. The end result is China is becoming intolerant of these practices. You work in China; you have to have some experience with this. The RC business in China is ugly and competitive. Prices will go up due to these pressures. PM me and tell me what you do you do in China??? It’s always cool to exchange views with people who live in China rather than those who go there for a week to check a glue joint!!

Cheers!

skiman762

I think I bought one of those rejects on feebay last year it was cheap enough I didn't really care but when I put it together I notice the trailing edge of the wing at the root where both built like they where for one side the rest of the wing was ok I have to point it out but it's there

bbagle1

to me the UcanDo knock off looks just as ugly an unfit for any type of flying as the original. The Illusion sure was perty though. I wonder if the covering on that one would hold up better than my omp fusion did? Anyone know what that one sells for in dollars?

Gringo Flyer

My Feedback: (18)

The exchange rate is 3 to 1. So it wouldbe about $260.

If have seen the Ilusion ARF for sale and have seen one fly. It looks well built.

However, its wrong to sale someone elses plane. My flying buddies and I have decided that we wont buy any product for Hobby10 because of it.

AFSalmon

My Feedback: (3)

To be clear I designed the OMP Fusion and TMPRo manufactured this product for us. I gave absolutely no permission to redistribute this design to anyone. It is obvious TMPro and the people associated with him have stolen my design and re-distributed this plane, although in a different cover scheme, to Argentina. They did not even change anything other than the cover scheme. The owner of Hobby 10 is Gaston Luchinni and the pilot of the Illusion was Marcelo Zini. Both are well known pilots in Argentina and I believe Marcelo is even sponsored by JR. I would have expected a much higher degree of integrity from these folks but I guess not. Theft and dishonest activity do not go unnoticed in this small hobby world. Mr. Daniel Kerner from TMPro, how can you explain your actions?

Gringo, thank you so much for your support and I appreciate you spreading the word down there in Argentina. If there is anything OMP can ever do for you please let me know.

rclement

My Feedback: (1)

A friend of mine lives in Matzatlan and he says that the Mexicans buy junk from China and peel off the "made in China" stickers and replace them with "made in Mexico" stickers. [X(]

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Hey I created that Radioactive sing. I think it's cool someone utilized my art on their boxes. Come to think about it I created the entire Fusion box art. Anyone is free to use my artwork and if they want to contact me direct to get a free hi res version, please PM me, more then happy to share, seeing that I'm the copyright holder.

Not aimed at you Tim, but it's a shame your partner had to point the finger in the wrong direction.

budshobby

Mike, it's great to see you are finally onboard against this lowlife called Daniel Kerner and TMPro. I remember you used to work with him and defended him. He copied Quinn's designs and now he has even turned on his former ally. I guess he has so little integrity that he will turn and bite the hand that fed him.

I hope you can stop him from stealing your design, even if it's in Argentina. Anyone who cares about 3D and profiles from all countries should come together and make it clear to TMPro that their fraud is not acceptable. If everyone stop buying TMPro products I am sure we will have his attention. I am not against manufacturing in China. Honest people like Extreme Flight and Copperhead do a great job producing high quality products there. I will continue to look for OMP products even if it's produced in China. It's cheaters like TMPro that should be stopped and punished.

sean sutherland

My Feedback: (2)

As far as all these loose acusations Why cant you, MIKE , call the seller of these aircraft and ask before you go shooting your mouth off, provide some REAL proof instead of jumping to conclusions !

Hobby-Motory

To be clear :

TMPro did not sell any Fusions to no one !!
there were some Fusions shipped to Israel and OMP team knew about it upfront.

Before juming and bashing a person, and a company you better check the facts,
I know its a pain to have copies, we are dealing same for our Kat V2's now,
we lately found copies that even has TMPro sticker on boxes...

There are legal ways to deal with copycats, we are now collecting proofs
and will deal with it in court..

Very bad there are people like Mike who jump like that with fals facts,
and then other guys like "budshobby" who continue the bashing in person without
even knowing what is all about...

Tim from Cooperhead seems to be the only guy who understand China and how it works,
and he sure know if I say its not TMPro sold to Argentine then it must be true.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

An interesting coincidence, but the very first factory OMP ever used to produce 80" OMP Edge ARF's was in Argentina. Good ol Gustavo. It's really not that hard to buy an OMP kit and copy it. Don't underestimate a 3rd world country person from being able to read a great plan like an OMP kit.

Planes always get copied, but you can always tell who the players are and who the fly by night outfits are. Don't see GP's coming in complaining about their rip off UCANDO. They are probably taking care of it like the professionals they are, laughing about it, because they know they are the masters of the universe. Besides the fact there is hardly anything they can do about it.

I see Coach bags being sold on the street on the same corner as their corporate HQ's here in NYC. They could care less, they know how to dominate a market and have a good laugh about the knock offs. And they can't do anything about it. These guys that sell them have permits issued by the city to sell them in plain view. So good luck Mike!

depfife

My Feedback: (14)

http://www.coach.com/cservice/FaqTem...aspx?faq_id=34 hmmm

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Great tip Dep, now maybe OMP should try the same professional practice instead of trying to pin it on someone else without trying to embarrass a fellow RC manufacturer without ever trying to get the facts straight. As a moderator you should take responsibility for companies try to resolve problems themselves instead of trying to make great companies like RCU become their personal court house. Slander libel could fall into the hands of the distributors of the content and they become the very victims of these allegations.

depfife

My Feedback: (14)

You may be right, however it is amusing to note that some people's opinion on what should or should not be allowed varies when they have alliance to the group being accused, verses when they are doing the accusing. Probably does not apply to anyone in this thread.

As long as the discussion remains civil I am in favor of leaving it posted. If there are facts in dispute, often exposure to public scrutiny helps straighten things out. My hope is that none of the folks involved in this discussion have engaged in misrepresenting the facts or in unscrupulous business practices.

I will now crawl back under my moderator rock and leave the discussion to those with useful information.

sean sutherland

My Feedback: (2)

Looks like another fusion copy here too !!! maybe the market is flooded with cheap copies and thats why you have to have a sale to move them ![img][/img]

CopperheadAV

What exactly dose this have to do with you Sean??? Man talking about busting off at the mouth!

RC MANIAC119

My Feedback: (14)

I was wondering the same thing!![sm=thumbs_down.gif]

TailTwister

My Feedback: (1)

Best Quote EVER!!!!!!!