Hurray! My Stickit IV plans finally arrived from RCM today. Guess I should start planning the mods and beging finding the accessories! Heres what I plan on doing so far:

-Enlarge elev. surface to Stickit V specs. Enlarge Rudder?
-Convert ailerons to dual wing servos with kevlar Pull Pull setup.

Any other good mods to bring it to Stickit V specs or better?

Engine: OS 40FP, mousse can muff.

Radio gear selection- so far:
-Hitec HS225 mighty mini's on Ailerons, (Pull-Pull).
-HS 81 Throttle
-HS 605 or 615 hi torqs on Elev and rudder. Pull pull if possible!

I need to figure out a way to put pull pull on the tail surfaces if at all possible! Who has built one? Does it have any tendencies to come out nose/tail heavy? I'm thinking of coverin in all clear monokote, with white rays on the top of the wing, is it easy lose the plane with a color scheme like that?

If there is anyone out there with a Stickit, Please post your comments and mods! Thanks

The pull-pull shouldn't be too hard. If I had mine to build over again, I'd do a pull pull on the tail surfaces. Just epoxy a couple of pieces of inner nyrod to the boom and run the kevlar through that. With standard servo's and a TT 36 with mousse can, mine balanced with the battery in the leading edge with no weight added.

You might want to change the airfoil slightly on the Stickit IV. One of the problems with the IV was a tendency for aileron flutter at higher speeds. I think this was caused by the rearward highpoint of the airfoil. Just put a straight edge on the rib from the rear of the spar to the trailing edge and cut off the curvature, this seemed to help quite a bit. You also might want to look at different motor mount materials. We used 1/2" ply in the kit for economy purposes, but actually flew using the CF/balsa laminates.

Azarr
www.ecubedrc.com

What sort of lay up did you use for your CF / Balsa laminate? I'm building a Menace right now and would be interested in shaving some weight....

Azzar:

What do you mean change the airfoil slightly? And I'm not sure I understand what you say I should do to the ailerons? A pic of the finished product would help alot? Do you mean cut a straight aileron instead of a tapered one?

I really like the idea of the Carbon fiber laminating, how many laminates should I make? Should I make 4- 1/8" laminates? Thanks for the info!

Boy, I wish I had done this.... My stickIt (rip) had horrible aileron flutter... I like the menace airfoil better and I like the reinforced leading edge of the ailerons... I think it will be a much better flyer.

for clairification.... You talking about laying a rib flat on the work bench, then laying a straight edge over it from the spar to the TE and cutting the above portion off. Same for bottom...... Right?

Its been awhile so the pic below isn't too scale but the airfoil
mod cut is there. Might let Assar verify but this is how I remeber
the mod.

On the motor mount you can just order up the 1/4" end grain
carbon lam. like is listed at this site http://cstsales.com/carbon-panels.htm

good luck

Miderror: I assume I should cut both the top and bottom of the wing rib? I get it now, thanks for the pic.
Azarr, What do you think?

I think I will do the 2 laminations of c.f. to make the 1/4" nose plate.

Should I enlarge the tail surfaces any? Thanks for the help

Coulter_Dean,
Just so you know, I don't fly my Stickits in competition. But for the past ten years, I've been actively sport flying a couple of Stickit IV planes. It's sport flying......but usually wild and crazy sport flying at extremely low altitudes (see avatar), and in situations where if the engine stumbles, my Stickit usually crashes. Therefore my particular setups might not be competitive on a national level, but I've never seen another plane yet that could out fly it. And I'm also my club's test pilot so I get to fly a lot of other planes to compare them to my Stickit IV. So far, the ONLY other planes that can begin to compare with my Stickit IV have been similar wing and boom types. And now that my disclaimer is out of the way, if I were to build another Stickit IV, I would do the following:

Add diagonal cross braces to the aileron structure. They added a lot of strength with very little weight penalty.

Trim off the tips of the ailerons to angle back about 30 to 45 degrees. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've broken the tips of the ailerons while playing around at ground level. The wingtip skids didn't prevent this damage either.

Leave off the wing tip skid wires. I took mine off later on, and I haven't missed them at all. (during ground level playing around, the skids usually caused more damage than they prevented.)

Use at least a 4-40 pushrod on the ailerons. Better yet, make them pull-pull.

Seal your aileron hinge gaps! If you don't, you are almost guaranteed to experience aileron flutter. Plus the loop tracking suffers without the sealed gaps.

Change the rudder pushrod to a pull-pull cable. It's simple, lightweight, and allows you to get LOTS of rudder throw. I would definitely recommend this.

Change the elevator pushrod from a nyrod type to a 1/16"
solid music wire pushrod, with nylon guide tubes placed about every 6". Be sure to position your guide tubes so the wire runs absolutely as straight as possible from the servo to the elevator horn. A bow or a bend in the pushrod wire will allow it to flex.....which could result in a flutter. Note: If it weren't for the bottom elevator control horn dragging on the ground, I'd use a pull-pull for the elevator too.

Leave off the tail skid wire. My tailskid wires always broke off after less than 30 flights, so I finally stopped replacing it....and I haven't missed it either. (but it's a grass field)

Modify the bottom of the rudder to allow the elevator to deflect at least 60 degrees.

Make the elevator at least 50% of the horizontal tail area. This will help to eliminate the flapperon deflection overpowering the elevator control in some cases.

Eliminate the removable stud that the tail surfaces mount to. I have mine mounted with a 6x32 bolt, and it still tends to wallow out the bolt hole, which cause the tail section to tilt to one side or the other. I can't imagine a little 2x56 screw lasting more than a few aggressive flights! Get your tail section squared up, then glue the stud in solid. Or just eliminate the stud entirely.

Mount the servos with the arms above the hatch, like on the Stickit V version. This will especially help to eliminate the pushrod interference problem with the center rib on the elevator servo at extreme throws.

Reinforce the outer rib bay by adding a full sheer web in that section only. Also fiberglass the inside of the leading edge sheeting of the just the outer rib bay. This area takes a REAL beating when you get to playing too hard!

Use FAST servos that have adequate torque to do the job, then use a 5 cell pack to make your servos even faster. Most servos sold as "high torque" are way too slow for a Stickit with +/- 60 degrees of throw. The result is that the control surface is always trying to catch up with the stick commands...which makes it harder to fly.

And finally, keep in mind that these are my opinions......and I could be wrong! :stupid:

great post dave.
Now thats some mods that will make a nice stickit.
Thanks to Paul , I now have a set of skitickit plans, and am going to get started today. These mods will do the trick.

Thanks Dave and Paul

Happy Bunny Day.

GW

Yes, Thanks Dave, you hit on a few things I would have done, and the rets are things I might not be able to live without!

One thing I cant live without is pull-pull on the elevator, I have to figure out a way to do it. I won't be doing too many aggressive maneuvers for a while, I may make a 1/4"- 3/8" aluminum skid to keep the tail off the ground and protect the control horn. Sound good? How did you always break off the tail skid? Hovering??

I have managed to "finagle" a deal for an OS 32F. I hear its MUCH more powerful than the 40FP I had considered, and its lighter/smaller!

Coming along, I just have to get through with the other 10 planes I'm working on now. Or should I scoot them out of the way for this one

Thanks for the great tips!

Coulter_Dean,
If you stay away from ground level playing around, the pull-pull elevator should work fine. But I can't resist playing at ground level with a Stickit, which is why I kept breaking tailskids. I don't recall ever breaking a tailskid while hovering, but I've broken several tailskids doing low level loops. At the bottom of a full deflection loop, the tail section sometimes strikes the ground before the wheel even touches. My wire tailskids usually only survived a few tail strikes before breaking off......which would then expose the lower pull-pull elevator control horn to a ground strike. And I don't want to chance that.

The ball bearing OS 32F and the bushing 40FP weigh exactly the same. The 32F is a good engine, but the 40FP with a Mousse Can Pipe is just as good for sport flying. For hovering, I prefer the 40FP w/MCP because of it's EXCELLENT throttle response at all throttle settings.

On my Stickit IVs, I own and have flown the OS 40FP, OS 46LA, OS 32F, Webra 32, Thunder Tiger Pro 36, Thunder Tiger 40GP, and the Thunder Tiger 42GP. All of these engines were flown with stock mufflers, and also with Mousse Can Pipes (MCP). Out of all these engines, my favorite for sport flying a Stickit is the Thunder Tiger 42GP with a Mousse Can Pipe spinning a Top Flite 11x4 wood prop. If the Thunder Tiger Pro 36 didn't have mid-range throttling problems, it would probably be my first choice with a MCP and a 10x4.

Although the Webra 32 has a killer reputation on the internet, I must have gotten a lemon. My Webra 32 can't hold a candle to the TT 42GP and the TT Pro 36. My OS 32F is a little better than the Webra, but still lags behind the TT 42GP and the TT Pro 36.

Hmmm. You make me feel bad after I agree to pay $70 for a 32F.

I guess I will have to live with the 32. I thought it had more power than the 40FP? throttle response should be the same right? BTW, What prop should I use for the 32? Thanks, Coulter

Coulter_Dean,
Don't feel bad about choosing the OS 32F!!!! It's a great engine and will work just fine in your Stickit IV! With or without a MCP, I'd recommend starting with a 10x4 prop.

But just don't rule out the OS 40FP in a Stickit because of it's reputation as a cheap but low powered 40. Yes, it is cheap....and yes, it is low powered for a 40. But when you start comparing the 8.75 ounce 40FP to other engines in the same weight class, then the 40FP starts looking pretty good compared to those expensive ball bearing 25 to 32 size engines......especially once you get rid of that extremely restrictive stock 40FP muffler.

Add a MCP to the 40FP, and it starts generating some serious power for such a lightweight and inexpensive engine. In a Stickit IV, the 40FP w/MCP will equal or outperform a 32F with a stock muffler. Once you put a MCP on the 32F, then the 32F will put out a little more power than the 40FP w/MCP....but the difference inflight isn't all that great.

Yes, this is the correct mod and should be done both top and bottom; basically moves the high point of the airfoil forward. The Tapered ailerons on the Stickit IV were a concession to the masses for kitting purposes, they just flat looked better. For performance, the ailerons should be rectangular for more aileron area. Tapering in the tips as suggested stops a lot of gear breakage.

Where can I get a .40 FP? It should be perfect for my StickitIV that I just got plans for. Thanks!

How would you setup a pull-pull on the ailerons??

dyerstown,
I have seven OS 40FP engines, and all of them were bought used for between $20 and $40. Chances are someone you know has one sitting around collecting dust. In fact, I recently saw an OS 40FP for sale here on RCU for $30 including shipping. Or check on ebay. IMHO, for a Stickit engine, the OS 40LA isn't a good substitute for the OS 40FP. On the other hand, Foamguy swears his 40LA worked great in his Stickit......where we just ended up swearing *AT* the 40LA engines we tried in Stickits and similar planes.

Paul,
For a pull-pull aileron, just mount the servo sideways inside the wing, through a hole cut into a rib. Go here to read a good web page by Bob Adkins on pull-pull systems, including ailerons. Then look at the PICTURES link to see a good diagram of a pull-pull aileron linkage setup.
http://webpages.charter.net/bobad/pullpull.htm

For even more info on pull-pull systems, go to Google.Com and do a search for [pull-pull aileron].

Coulter_Dean,
The answer to your question in another forum about the OS 40SF vs. the OS 40FP is that the 40SF weighs nearly 4 ounces more than the 40FP.....which makes the 40SF way too heavy for a Stickit.

Hi Guys,

Been following the thread and saw my name mentione regarding OS LA engines. I'll say right up front that most times I mention liking them I get flamed into the next county.... but I do anyway. I think I have about 6 or 7 of them now. To keep things in context, I also own quite a lot of other brands/models too however, most of which I'm also quite pleased with. I also like the FP series... I still have a couple of them, I was sad to see them go, but that's progress for you.

Anyway, about the LA's and Stickits.... I agree with Dave here, if you can score a cheap FP, by all means buy one... theyre not hard at all to find... OS made a zillion of them over a very long period of time. If not, stop off at your LHS and pick up an LA .40. This will work well with a plane upto about 3.5 lbs. If your plane is heavier than that ( and it shouldnt be ) you might want the LA .46. They are lightweight, which is important with these type planes, reliable, handstart easily, economical ( less on board fuel load means lower wing loading and easier tank placement) and transition well enough to get the job done. I'm sort of a stickler about that too. Don't worry about RPM for sport flying. Think in terms of torque. Sure, a Webra .32 will spin a 10x4 WAY up there which is a must in competition, but the old LA will spin a 12x4 I like the larger disc area, makes hovering and other sport activities much easier for me.

This has been a good thread, I've learned much. These are about the only kind of planes I fly anymore. Everything else to me is booooooring
Anyone can go zoom/zoom up and down the field at 150 mph.. that doesnt take any real skill But it takes large.... er... coconuts to loop 5 ft off the deck then hover it into you and snatch it from the sky with your hand. You'll still amaze your buddies even if you fail ! ( and I often do ! hehheh)

Foamguy

Foamguy,
You never cease to amaze us out there at the field. At least someone out there flies, unlike the guys that take their plane out there and get it out, then never fly it. (Mr. Shaefer. ahem, I'm talking to you.)

--Talk to all of you after Toledo

--Paul

OK gang.....Yet another question....I have the plans for the stickit 4 and 5 and I'm leaning toward the 5 because I love unusually large control surfaces. I think I have asked about this before but......Im still a little confused here(not hard to do). Exactly how does the pod and boom fit between the wing halves? The only way that I can understand it is the pod glues in flush with the wing and the boom is left exposed in the gap and then after you glue it all in you sheet over the part thats left exposed??????? Am I even remotely close????? I just got a webra speed 40 with a pipe and I'm about to have a fit to get this thing together.........John

On another note.....Before anybody get all over my back I know that in the past I have called webra engines boat anchors but I have seen this one run and its pretty tough......John

Here's a shot of my menace boom and wing before I put on the trailing edge... Simular to the Stickit, except the wing halves are build separately and then glued to the pod and boom.




Here it is after the trailing edge is installed:



The StickIt is just a little bit different... Again the wing halves are build seperately... Make sure to let the spar's hang ove the egde by 1/4" so that they can index into the pod. Then just epoxy both wings halves in. A 1/4 spruce brace goes in at the spar line the width of the sheeted area. I think the sheeting goes on next. On the stickit IV, the top half of the sheeting on the top of the wing is a giant hatch... Like this:




More pics:

Stickit Pictures

Menace Pictures

More Menace Pictures

Okay okay I think Im starting to get it now....So I dont sheet nothing but the le till after its all glued together.....Am I close? Ive built a plenty of profile type planes before but this is my first boom type.

Well sort of... The leading and trailing edge sheeting and cap strips go on before assembly to the pod and boom... Then you do the center section sheeting last... Don't forget to cut an access path in the center ribs for the servo wires before you do your center section sheeting...