Rc Fuel Faq
09-04-2002, 08:28 PM
#27
Rc Fuel Faq
I will try to research that one a bit, however I believe that Acetone is hygroscopic (absorbs water from ambient atmosphere) like methanol. If in fact my beliefs are correct, it would probably not serve the purpose of reducing the water absorption affect of methanol.
I realize that many home brewers use it as a flame speed modifier to help idle with low or zero nitro fuels, and to some extent it works just fine in low percentages for that purpose.
Fuelman
I realize that many home brewers use it as a flame speed modifier to help idle with low or zero nitro fuels, and to some extent it works just fine in low percentages for that purpose.
Fuelman
09-05-2002, 07:54 AM
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Acetone
Hi Fuelman,
A very commonly used fuel ingredient in Australia is "Shell Racing Fuel A". This is 97% Methanol and 3% Acetone, comes in 20 litre drums. The other common ingredient is "Castrol M", castor oil which comes in 5 litre jugs. As you can imagine, mixing FAI fuel doesn't come any easier or painlessly than this. You would of course be right that it isn't really FAI fuel because of the acetone in it!
Anyway, I have been using this fuel for years and am happy with it. Sure, the power is not as high as with nitro fuels but idle is always good. I attribute this to the acetone in the mix. Your insights into this would be appreciated.
A very commonly used fuel ingredient in Australia is "Shell Racing Fuel A". This is 97% Methanol and 3% Acetone, comes in 20 litre drums. The other common ingredient is "Castrol M", castor oil which comes in 5 litre jugs. As you can imagine, mixing FAI fuel doesn't come any easier or painlessly than this. You would of course be right that it isn't really FAI fuel because of the acetone in it!
Anyway, I have been using this fuel for years and am happy with it. Sure, the power is not as high as with nitro fuels but idle is always good. I attribute this to the acetone in the mix. Your insights into this would be appreciated.
10-21-2002, 12:22 PM
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GETTING WATER OUT OF FUEL
The way to get water out of your fuel is simple;
a.) set the CLOSED jug out in the sun or warm area until it is completely warm.
b.) Bring the fuel into a cool area, and after the condensation forms on the flat part of the top of the jug, use a J shaped wire with a guaze or cotton swab to remove the droplets- just be careful not to bump the jug or you have to start all over again!
Jetts
a.) set the CLOSED jug out in the sun or warm area until it is completely warm.
b.) Bring the fuel into a cool area, and after the condensation forms on the flat part of the top of the jug, use a J shaped wire with a guaze or cotton swab to remove the droplets- just be careful not to bump the jug or you have to start all over again!
Jetts
10-22-2002, 12:21 AM
#30
Rc Fuel Faq
DerFly,
Acetone will help idle and transition a bit in small quantities (3%) when using zero nitro fuels. I have used it on the bench to test theories and yes it does just what I mentioned. As far as top end performance, no difference was noted.
When you add acetone to a nitro based fuel, I could not notice any change in idle or transition, so I essentially call it a needless addition, in fuel with 5% nitro or greater.
Jetstarblue,
The little droplets you see are condensated methanol, not water.
This has been a common miscoception about the "sweat" in the bottle being water. I can fill a jug half full of pure methanol (with a nitrogen blanket) and get the same small dropletts forming on the upper part of the bottle. Water will not evaporate out of methanol, methanol evaporates out of water.
Still, as I have mentioned many times, and I'm sure every other fuel manufacturer will agree; The best way to get water out of fuel is to prevent it from getting in there in the first place. Tightly capped, in a cool dry dark place is your best bet. Only open it enough to get fuel transfered.
Fuelman
Acetone will help idle and transition a bit in small quantities (3%) when using zero nitro fuels. I have used it on the bench to test theories and yes it does just what I mentioned. As far as top end performance, no difference was noted.
When you add acetone to a nitro based fuel, I could not notice any change in idle or transition, so I essentially call it a needless addition, in fuel with 5% nitro or greater.
Jetstarblue,
The little droplets you see are condensated methanol, not water.
This has been a common miscoception about the "sweat" in the bottle being water. I can fill a jug half full of pure methanol (with a nitrogen blanket) and get the same small dropletts forming on the upper part of the bottle. Water will not evaporate out of methanol, methanol evaporates out of water.
Still, as I have mentioned many times, and I'm sure every other fuel manufacturer will agree; The best way to get water out of fuel is to prevent it from getting in there in the first place. Tightly capped, in a cool dry dark place is your best bet. Only open it enough to get fuel transfered.
Fuelman
10-22-2002, 01:54 PM
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Water in fuel
Fuelman,
WOW,!
Thanks for the info- I am a firm believer that you CAN teach old dogs new tricks!- And you just did.
I guess that I have been spending way to much time "maintaining" my fuel!!
I always leave the red plug in the bottle when I put the cap on, and even go so far as to close the bottle between squeeze bulbs of fuel. After 15 years in the hobby, I am going out TODAY to get a fuel pump. My bulb is shot anyhow.
Once again thanks for the insight.
Jetts
WOW,!
Thanks for the info- I am a firm believer that you CAN teach old dogs new tricks!- And you just did.
I guess that I have been spending way to much time "maintaining" my fuel!!
I always leave the red plug in the bottle when I put the cap on, and even go so far as to close the bottle between squeeze bulbs of fuel. After 15 years in the hobby, I am going out TODAY to get a fuel pump. My bulb is shot anyhow.
Once again thanks for the insight.
Jetts
11-20-2002, 06:48 AM
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4 Stroke Fuel Additive.
Hey Fuelman,
Can you use an automotive fuel additive like STP, Pennzoil etc, to help control carbon build-up on valves in four stroke engines? I know the majority of them contain petroleum distillates which may not blend well with glow fuel . How about a synthetic of some sort if one is available? Thanks.
Pat.
Can you use an automotive fuel additive like STP, Pennzoil etc, to help control carbon build-up on valves in four stroke engines? I know the majority of them contain petroleum distillates which may not blend well with glow fuel . How about a synthetic of some sort if one is available? Thanks.
Pat.
11-21-2002, 04:49 AM
#35
Rc Fuel Faq
Pepe,
To the best of my knowledge, at this time, none of the additives that are commonaly available for the automotive world will do what you are looking for. I assume you intend it to be an additive to the fuel you are currently using. The best cure is to prevent it altogether in the first place.
Nothing that we have tested in the automotive market will remove castor varnish or carbon deposits when added to a glow fuel. That is not to say that nothing exists, we just know that nothing we've tried that's currently on the market works.
On the bright side, in four strokes, carbon reduction can be reduced by running a low castor formula fuel or an all synthetic fuel. Through extensive testing of four stroke engines and ringed engines, we found that a fuel containing 18% synthetic and 2% castor did not produce a carbon build up on the valves or ring. Discoloration yes, build up- NO. One engine was run on the bench for at least half of the 1000, 12oz tanks. No carbon build up, only a slight discoloration from castor varnish was present. The ring was free and clear with a marvelous seal, bearings were clean and smooth and corrosion free. Results were the same with an all synthetic, only no castor varnish was present. These tests were with engines correctly tuned and not intentionally abused.
Fuel tested in four strokes with 16% synthetic and 4% castor had a slightly greater varnish but other than that, the valves and ring were free and clear without any deposit formations that would inhibit proper operation.
I hope this helps shed at least a little light on your question.
Fuelman
To the best of my knowledge, at this time, none of the additives that are commonaly available for the automotive world will do what you are looking for. I assume you intend it to be an additive to the fuel you are currently using. The best cure is to prevent it altogether in the first place.
Nothing that we have tested in the automotive market will remove castor varnish or carbon deposits when added to a glow fuel. That is not to say that nothing exists, we just know that nothing we've tried that's currently on the market works.
On the bright side, in four strokes, carbon reduction can be reduced by running a low castor formula fuel or an all synthetic fuel. Through extensive testing of four stroke engines and ringed engines, we found that a fuel containing 18% synthetic and 2% castor did not produce a carbon build up on the valves or ring. Discoloration yes, build up- NO. One engine was run on the bench for at least half of the 1000, 12oz tanks. No carbon build up, only a slight discoloration from castor varnish was present. The ring was free and clear with a marvelous seal, bearings were clean and smooth and corrosion free. Results were the same with an all synthetic, only no castor varnish was present. These tests were with engines correctly tuned and not intentionally abused.
Fuel tested in four strokes with 16% synthetic and 4% castor had a slightly greater varnish but other than that, the valves and ring were free and clear without any deposit formations that would inhibit proper operation.
I hope this helps shed at least a little light on your question.
Fuelman
11-21-2002, 07:05 AM
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Fuel Additives
Lights are on HIGH BEAM. Thanks Fuelman. The fuel I'm using is 15% nitro, 20% oil (75% syn. 25% cas.) which I also use in my 2 strokes just for convenience. I like the idea of Castor in glow fuel and don't mind tearing my engines down every couple of season's to deal with it's negative effects.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
12-05-2002, 06:40 AM
#37
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Fuelman is providing some great information about our fuels. The best thing he does in his information is backup. Sounds like a real engineer if you ask me. Keep up the good work Fuelman.
Garrett Morrison
Garrett Morrison
01-14-2003, 10:00 PM
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Rc Fuel Faq
fuelman,
I believe the reason for coiling fuel lines has to do when cars ar up side down and have the clunk hard mounted to the bottom of the tank. the extra fuel line gives you extra time to get the car turn right side up before it runs out of fuel. coiling it is just a neat way of arrainging it.
Allen Waddle
I believe the reason for coiling fuel lines has to do when cars ar up side down and have the clunk hard mounted to the bottom of the tank. the extra fuel line gives you extra time to get the car turn right side up before it runs out of fuel. coiling it is just a neat way of arrainging it.
Allen Waddle
01-15-2003, 12:58 AM
#39
Rc Fuel Faq
Allen,
Yes, coiling the fuel feed line on an R/C car/ buggy is to help avoid a flameout due to starvation when flipped.
Coiling the pressure line from the muffler or pipe is what the above posts are refering to. In the muffler pressure side, I found no conclusive evidence to a benefit.
If you know of any conclusive evidence to a benefit, please post so we can all gain from the knowledge.
Excellent post Allen, thank you for visiting the forum.
Yes, coiling the fuel feed line on an R/C car/ buggy is to help avoid a flameout due to starvation when flipped.
Coiling the pressure line from the muffler or pipe is what the above posts are refering to. In the muffler pressure side, I found no conclusive evidence to a benefit.
If you know of any conclusive evidence to a benefit, please post so we can all gain from the knowledge.
Excellent post Allen, thank you for visiting the forum.
01-15-2003, 06:31 AM
#40
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Rc Fuel Faq
Fuelman:
78% Methonal, 14.5% Klotz, 7.5% Castor with no nitro is what I use. I find if I use anymore castor oil... it gums up the engine. My goal is to use as much castor as possible to help cool the engine, but not to much to gum up the engine.
What do you think about this?
78% Methonal, 14.5% Klotz, 7.5% Castor with no nitro is what I use. I find if I use anymore castor oil... it gums up the engine. My goal is to use as much castor as possible to help cool the engine, but not to much to gum up the engine.
What do you think about this?
02-07-2003, 12:00 AM
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Fuelman, I sent you a Pm but not sure how often you check those so I thought I would ask you here just in case. If I were to run a fuel with 17 to 18% oil (Cast/Syn Mix) in a .12 CV-R would I be better off using 15% Nitro or 25% Nitro. I am racing but I do not wont nor have the budget to rebuild 2 or 3 times a year.
Thanks for your input
Guy
Thanks for your input
Guy
02-08-2003, 03:19 PM
#42
Rc Fuel Faq
ARay and Guy,
I sent both of you PM's or e-mails.
Guy,
To breifly answer your question publicly so that others may benefit. If I'm not mistaken, your OS engine manuel recommends at least 18% total lubrication, so the 17 or 18% oil fuel you choose to run should be fine. As far as nitro recommendations, anywhere between 15% to 25% as you mentioned, should be fine. I suggest that you start with the 15% fuel to see if it is performing where you want it to. If you find it is not, move to the 25%. You will never hurt anything running a higher oil fuel in a car / buggy engine.
Keep in mind that glow plug heat range has a giant effect on how an engine runs with different nitro percentages. Lower nitro fuels generally need a hotter plug than higher nitro fuels. Too hot a plug with hot fuel (higher nitro, 25%) could cause some detonation and be harmful for your very expensive engine. Too cold of a plug with lower nitro fuels can cause hard starting and sluggish response.
That was a fantastic question Guy.
I sent both of you PM's or e-mails.
Guy,
To breifly answer your question publicly so that others may benefit. If I'm not mistaken, your OS engine manuel recommends at least 18% total lubrication, so the 17 or 18% oil fuel you choose to run should be fine. As far as nitro recommendations, anywhere between 15% to 25% as you mentioned, should be fine. I suggest that you start with the 15% fuel to see if it is performing where you want it to. If you find it is not, move to the 25%. You will never hurt anything running a higher oil fuel in a car / buggy engine.
Keep in mind that glow plug heat range has a giant effect on how an engine runs with different nitro percentages. Lower nitro fuels generally need a hotter plug than higher nitro fuels. Too hot a plug with hot fuel (higher nitro, 25%) could cause some detonation and be harmful for your very expensive engine. Too cold of a plug with lower nitro fuels can cause hard starting and sluggish response.
That was a fantastic question Guy.
02-12-2003, 02:28 PM
#43
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Fuelman thanks for the help. I contacted OS and found out thier #3 & #8 plugs are their "hot" rated plugs and should be used with the 15% and the #5 is the cooler plug and should be used with the 25%. Now I just need to find time to get to the LHS and see which % is availble to me. I like your idea of starting with 15%.
Again Thanks
Guy
Again Thanks
Guy
02-12-2003, 08:24 PM
#44
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Hi Fuelman
When You get a chance, would You look at this thread
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...838#post684939
The is a corrosive action in question, and any help would be appreciated. Thank's; Dan ZZ
When You get a chance, would You look at this thread
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...838#post684939
The is a corrosive action in question, and any help would be appreciated. Thank's; Dan ZZ
02-13-2003, 01:15 AM
#45
Rc Fuel Faq
Hey Dan, nice to hear from you.
I posted the following over in the other forum for the benefit of those reading this thread:
I'm not a chemical engineer but I have noticed that nitromethane will attack many types of brass including some of the popular brass tubing stock found with some tank manufacturers. The brass will turn black and then get pitted and finally fail. This can happen from the inside or the outside.
An additional factor is that the burnt exhaust gasses, if vented into the tank will accelerate this since it contains nitric acid (if not mistaken) if nitromethane is in the fuel.
I always use the nylon or plastic tubing that comes in some of the popular tanks now. Just heat it up with a heat gun and it bends any way you want it.
I posted the following over in the other forum for the benefit of those reading this thread:
I'm not a chemical engineer but I have noticed that nitromethane will attack many types of brass including some of the popular brass tubing stock found with some tank manufacturers. The brass will turn black and then get pitted and finally fail. This can happen from the inside or the outside.
An additional factor is that the burnt exhaust gasses, if vented into the tank will accelerate this since it contains nitric acid (if not mistaken) if nitromethane is in the fuel.
I always use the nylon or plastic tubing that comes in some of the popular tanks now. Just heat it up with a heat gun and it bends any way you want it.
02-13-2003, 03:01 AM
#46
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Fuelman
Thank's for the info and taking the time to look over the thread.
As I told You before, I am getting back to the hobby after a few years off. somethings have changed a lot, I see the plastic line tubes in some tanks now and thats probably why.
Thank's again and for the help You offer'
Dan Z
Thank's for the info and taking the time to look over the thread.
As I told You before, I am getting back to the hobby after a few years off. somethings have changed a lot, I see the plastic line tubes in some tanks now and thats probably why.
Thank's again and for the help You offer'
Dan Z
02-26-2003, 01:46 AM
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1/10 Racing fuel opinion/help
Greetings to ya all!
Fuelman:
I'd like to ask for yer opinion and some advice in this.
I live in Puerto Rico, Tropical Island with weather variants. I currently compete in the local races on touring and 1/10 on-road races. I'd experimented with many kinds of fuels. I'd recently decided to try and mebbe make it myself.
There are some people in the same ambient who use to make their own fuel. I had do my research on the web and I'd found that using 35% Nitromethane and 11% lubricant in my constanly changing weather works the best for me.
The problem lies that I havent find brands of fuels that are sold here to fit my especifications...
Why I make that assumption when I dont find the fuel like that? Well I own a OS engine .12 TR engine, Using 20% nitro, 12% lubricant fuel, my car runs smooth, flawless at temperatures exedding 240 degrees... I was amazed how in a race temp went up to 280 and the car kept running without breaking anything... Piston clean, everything inside the engine was neat. Then I decided to test a 35% nitro 16% lubricant fuel. This one made my car fly on the ground, but when I checked its inside it was a bit dirt... then I decided to try that combination. 35% nitro, 11 or 12% lubricant (60:40 - synthetic:castor)...
IMy sister is chemist and she can find me 99%+ pure nitromethane... and the methanol I can certainly find too.
The problem I find is that I dont really know what brand of synthetic or castor lubricant to use in my research.
Why 60:40 synthetic:castor in the oil mix? well it seems that for our weather that combination makes it run clean and without much dirt inside the motor... One friend makes car fuels.. but he uses 50:50... I'd like to try 60:40 to make it even clean.
I would really appreciate your comment on this and if possible your opinion of which brand to use for my synthetic oil and which brand to buy for the castor oil.
Thanks in advance!
-mAlAch 1/10 on-road Nitro freak!
[email protected]
PD: Excuse my english =/
Fuelman:
I'd like to ask for yer opinion and some advice in this.
I live in Puerto Rico, Tropical Island with weather variants. I currently compete in the local races on touring and 1/10 on-road races. I'd experimented with many kinds of fuels. I'd recently decided to try and mebbe make it myself.
There are some people in the same ambient who use to make their own fuel. I had do my research on the web and I'd found that using 35% Nitromethane and 11% lubricant in my constanly changing weather works the best for me.
The problem lies that I havent find brands of fuels that are sold here to fit my especifications...
Why I make that assumption when I dont find the fuel like that? Well I own a OS engine .12 TR engine, Using 20% nitro, 12% lubricant fuel, my car runs smooth, flawless at temperatures exedding 240 degrees... I was amazed how in a race temp went up to 280 and the car kept running without breaking anything... Piston clean, everything inside the engine was neat. Then I decided to test a 35% nitro 16% lubricant fuel. This one made my car fly on the ground, but when I checked its inside it was a bit dirt... then I decided to try that combination. 35% nitro, 11 or 12% lubricant (60:40 - synthetic:castor)...
IMy sister is chemist and she can find me 99%+ pure nitromethane... and the methanol I can certainly find too.
The problem I find is that I dont really know what brand of synthetic or castor lubricant to use in my research.
Why 60:40 synthetic:castor in the oil mix? well it seems that for our weather that combination makes it run clean and without much dirt inside the motor... One friend makes car fuels.. but he uses 50:50... I'd like to try 60:40 to make it even clean.
I would really appreciate your comment on this and if possible your opinion of which brand to use for my synthetic oil and which brand to buy for the castor oil.
Thanks in advance!
-mAlAch 1/10 on-road Nitro freak!
[email protected]
PD: Excuse my english =/
03-01-2003, 01:33 PM
#48
Rc Fuel Faq
mAlAch:
Do you have any motorcycle racing shops in your area? If so, they can help you find a synthetic lubricant that is suitable for alcohol fuels. Klotz Techniplate would be a suitable synthetic.
Castor is available from a number of sources, including hobby stores. Sig Castor oil or Klotz is suitable.
Teh 60/40 blend you mention should certainly be a suitable combination of synthetic to castor for your engines. I do however recommend a total oil content to satisfy your warranty requirements.
Remember that mixing your own fuel is inherintly quite dangerous. You may want to look into a fuel company that offers custom blending services such as S&W.
Do you have any motorcycle racing shops in your area? If so, they can help you find a synthetic lubricant that is suitable for alcohol fuels. Klotz Techniplate would be a suitable synthetic.
Castor is available from a number of sources, including hobby stores. Sig Castor oil or Klotz is suitable.
Teh 60/40 blend you mention should certainly be a suitable combination of synthetic to castor for your engines. I do however recommend a total oil content to satisfy your warranty requirements.
Remember that mixing your own fuel is inherintly quite dangerous. You may want to look into a fuel company that offers custom blending services such as S&W.
05-04-2003, 04:19 PM
#49
Rc Fuel Faq
I put my question in the "FAQ", but if you feel it's too dumb, feel free to move it.
I plan to start making my own fuel to save money. So my question is : " are the procentage you give based on the mass or on the volume"?
I feel that to be correct, it should be on the mass, otherwise from a location to a other the fuel characteristic will change regarding to the temp.
I plan to start making my own fuel to save money. So my question is : " are the procentage you give based on the mass or on the volume"?
I feel that to be correct, it should be on the mass, otherwise from a location to a other the fuel characteristic will change regarding to the temp.
