inv|s|ble

Ok, I am "new" as far as flying goes. I decided to get a RC Heli some 5+ years ago, never learned to hover, crashed mostly, well I got a new frame(aftermarket), servos, and other misc pieces, and didnt really know much, but got it all together finally, recently after taking a break. Now after fighting with this, and that to get it perfect, atleast I thought it was perfect, it will not take off. The blades are all spinning the correct way, the battery is freshly charged and 4.2v on each cell. What should I check first(I am almost at my wits end with this thing)? The swash to make sure its level? Im just looking for some insight, before I go tearing it all down again, and go insane.


Also what makes a "brand" a brand as far as helicopters go? The frame? I never know what to call mine, it started as an Esky Belt CP V1, and now all thats left of the ESKY is RX/TX, motor, and head.

ATVAlliance

Im not familiar with the Esky helis...but you said the heli you have is a 450 clone so that makes me think that what you have is similar to an Align 450 heli.

If you arent getting lift on a CP heli, the first place to look would be your pitch and throttle curves. More importantly the pitch...but if your motor isnt turning fast enough it could cause you not to lift off even with the proper pitch curve.

Also, on a CP heli...you have at least 2 flight modes. 1 for normal...2nd for idle up (or stunt mode) and on some radios a 3rd for idle up 2 (or stunt mode 2).

In normal mode...your throttle curve and pitch curve are for normal flight. Meaning NO inverted or 3D ability because from 0 stick on throttle give you no motor....and as you apply throttle your motor will start to turn faster and faster until you reach max throttle. Also, your pitch curve for normal mode will go something like -2 to 0 degrees pitch at zero throttle...all the way to +10 to +12 degrees pitch at full throttle. With you having 0 pitch at mid throttle and roughly 80% of the speed of your motor.

In your stunt mode...its basically the same except you have roughly 100% motor speed at all throttle positions (some people like to have it 100, 100, 80, 100, 100) for throttle curve. And then you would have a linear pitch of -10 to -12 at zero throttle and +10 to +12 at full throttle with again 0 pitch at center throttle stick. This is what allows you to fly a CP heli inverted and do all the crazy 3D stuff (if your skills are up to it).

I know someone else can and probably will chime in with a better detailed instruction for you. Just thought I would give you something to think about till that time. And maybe you will understand what I have posted and get it going by my post alone. Its just setup is one of the things I find that I struggle with. I do understand what needs done...just hard for me to explain it in a way that makes a whole lot of sense because I am still somewhat new to helicopters myself.

Goodluck to ya!

inv|s|ble

well, its a 450 class heli, HDX superframe, towerpro 9g servos on cylic, ino-labs hg-201HB servo on tail, telebee gyro, beam e4 swashplate, hobbywing pentium 30a esc, microheli tail assembly, esky(plastic) head..


my rx/tx(might be esc) will not let me spool up in stunt mode, i have to start in standard mode...

TakeshiSkunk

You usually match pitch in both flight modes around center stick or so and switch to idle up in a hover. Cp helis are meant to fly in idle up at all times, but normal is fine while you're learning.

Is your swash moving up while you move your throttle stick up? Put a linear hold on your throttle hold pitch curve and with TH on so the blades aren't spinning move the throttle stick up and down and see if the swash is doing what it's supposed to.

How is the heli behaving as you spool up? Is it doing nothing, squatting down, tipping over?

inv|s|ble

it appears to be squatting...so i reversed 2 wires on the motor, but my one way bearing just let the gear spin, before i flip that i figured i would post, since its not a quick change..

TakeshiSkunk

Your motor was probably fine and your collective is reversed. You need to find a way to reverse your pitch channel.

Do what I said with the throttle hold, if I'm correct you'll notice that as you move the stick up the swash plate is moving down instead.

inv|s|ble

actually, the swashplate moves up when i throttle up..now im totally confused..

ATVAlliance

Do you have a pitch guage?

If so, use it.

Do you have 0 pitch at mid throttle stick? Do you have positive pitch at full throttle?

Also...are you sure you have the rotor blades attached correctly? All of my helis main rotor turns clockwise and the tail rotor (if looking from the "passenger side" or right side of the airframe) turns counter clockwise or turns UP into the wash of the main rotor.

Verify all of the above and if you can do this...I would then look at throttle curve to make sure you have it high enough to turn the main rotor up to a headspeed it will need to take off.

If you do that and still doesnt work...your motor may just be too small for the task or is malfunctioning.

It shouldnt take that much to at least get it to lift off. After it leaves the ground is another story as far as "fine tuning" things. But getting it to leave the ground, all you need is...

1. rotation of main rotor in proper direction
2. positive pitch on main rotor
3. enough headspeed to provide lift

If you have the above...you should get liftoff.

madmorgan

My Feedback: (2)

if you dont mind watching vids there are guys that make them on youtube search trex 450 head setup  u may have to sit  and watch  a few videos but they are very informative and you can pause and check / relate to your model as they do it. i know finless bob does a ton of vids and tests alot of the new stuff to keep people up on the latest and greatest.

TakeshiSkunk

Even if his blades were attached backward he'd still be getting lift. Maybe they are turning the wrong way?

See what direction the motor turns them and the hit throttle hold. Now with the direction in mind look to see that the leading edge of the blade is moving up when the swash plate moves up.

ATVAlliance

True. I should have been more clear. I was actually trying to make the point that the rotation of the main rotor should be clockwise and for him to make sure that the blades were mounted correctly to put the leading edge of the blade "into the wind".

Its got to be something simple once he figures out the "theory" of helicopter flight...at least to the point of obtaining "lift".

Its probably like I already pointed out. His pitch or throttle curve (or both) setups are wrong or something is wrong with the motor.

inv|s|ble

my elevator is about 4mm below level on the swash...guess i should have triple checked it...i need a longer linkage rod to fix the problem

ATVAlliance

Somehow I lost focus on this being a "Frankenstein" 450. I should had mentioned your mechanical setup rather than focusing on programming and/or not enough rpm on the motor.

inv|s|ble

its all good...atleast i know what things to check if it ever happens again...the pitch gauge told me the swash wasnt level..

rgburrill

This is one of the best reasons to belong to a club. Getting someone else to look over your setup is very, very important, especially for helis. Trying to learn how to fly with unkonown equipment is just asking for frustration.
I wish I had taken this advice when I tried to learn the heli. I did belong to a club but we did not have a heli expert and I didn't go to the neighboring clubs that did.

ATVAlliance

Yeah...I am going it alone too. Setup is the most frustrating thing when starting out and you have no one to ask. I too, am the only one in our club that flies helicopters.

TakeshiSkunk

I suppose I should count my blessings, I'm one of three with a handful of other guys getting into it as well. Still, I only just joined a club this year and was on my own starting out. Helis are kind of a big scary confusing mess to look at before you're more familiar with them. Honestly I'm still not crazy about having to do setup work and I'm glad I have some experience near me to refer to.

ATVAlliance

Im actually a member of 2 clubs. My primary club, I am the only heli pilot. I joined the 2nd club because there were a few heli pilots there. Actually the 2nd club is a smaller club and the majority of guys there are primarily into helis.

However, I havent gotten any help from the 2nd clubyet because this 2nd club for me...is pretty much a 2nd club to all the members. Just a nice place to fly that is close for most of the guys when they cant get to their primary club.

Its just been bad timing that I couldnt get there enough last year when the others were there for me to really learn anything, yet. I hope that changes this year, butIve not even been to this clubs fieldthis year. Plus its further away for me than myprimary cluband I only go on the weekends we are camping (its really close to my campsite...like 10 minutes away). Its just hard to really get any help with setup and heli theory at the field when everyone wants to be flying and not working on things (myself included).

Ive said it before...the cost of a crash doesnt bother me as much as the time needed to do repairs and do setup again. Right now I have a bad bearing somewhere in the head(or possibly bearing block)of my 450 and I cant find the time to tear it down and find the culprit. I have a new head assy and bearing blocks, and I cant even find the time just to do a swap out as I know that it wont just be as simple as swapping out the head. I'll still have to do tweaking and blade tracking etc...

At least with airplanes...you know that you can fix/repair the damaged area/parts and there really isnt any more setup involved. Not saying I like helis more than planes...I think I like them both pretty equally...although helis give me a lot more adrenaline rush when trying to fly them.

inv|s|ble

i actually enjoy the tear down and rebuild, but then again i cant hover yet...



another quick question..im pretty sure i know why, but want to make sure...when i throttle up the ail servo moves slightly more than the pit...that is to counter for blade rotation, correct?

TakeshiSkunk

Unless you're running some weird mix for that (which you shouldn't be) the swash should remain completely level unless you move the right stick. Moving the throttle up and down should just directly raise and lower it.

inv|s|ble

no weird mix that i know of, so i guess that means i got a bad servo too?

ATVAlliance

Or you could have the end point adjustment off.

The best way to do setup (far as I can remember anyway) is to center your servos at 90 degrees and do your manual setup with your pitch guage. Once your manual setup is done. You fine tune your setup with end point adjustment (if needed) and of course your throttle and pitch curves (actually you need to have a starting point with throttle and pitch...but may need to tweak it once you get it flying).

You really should check out finless bobs video on setting up a 450 if you havent already done so. There are some other videos out there too. Mikey's RC or something like that comes to mind. You will know it when you see it as Mikey is a puppet. Guy does a decent job on the vids too.