I am currently managing to hover and manouvre quiet steadily with the nose away from me. How to I progress to nose in? I am learning on a Hoverfly 2. Should I get a simulator aswell?

Simulator is the next thing to a must have... a BIG help.

I teach the "sneaking up method";

Once you've mastered hovering and are ok hovering with the tail 45 degrees off to both sides, progress to tail-in circles.
Next, begin flying horizontal figure 8's, tail-in at first) and slowly work the tail around until it's following the heli to the point where the helis is flying in toward you on the crossover of the 8 directly in front of you (easier to demonstrate than explain). Now slow up the incoming portion of that maneuver until you can come to a hover... VIOLA!

Hope this helps... practice on a sim first.

Good Luck!

Just another vote for a simulator. not quite the same thing but close enough to give big benefits.

Sim will help a ton. You can just go for it and wreck a bunch of helis till you get it, then you will be able to do anything you want with the nose in. Then you can switch to the real one and it will be easy.

You can't beat the price of FMS(free). Buy or make a cable to connect your transmitter. For starting out its a great sim and will teach you a lot.

Jims method is good but i teach another....

my method is only to be attempted if you can hover nose in on the simulator!!!

1. get into a stable tail in hover, about 25 feet away, and 15 feet high.
2. Flick the tail 180 degrees, and attempt to hold in a hover.
3. BAIL OUT procedure, is immidiate to immidiatly flick the tail 180 degrees and recover to a tail in hover .
4. Continue this until you can nose in hover for extended periods of time.


okay, sounds difficult but remember...

- if the heli was in a stable tail-in hover, spinning 180 deg shoud keep it stable for a short time in nose in condition without any inputs. Giving you time to adjust. (dont believe me-do a full piruette and see if the heli remains stable momentarily).
- Bail out procedure is easy
- Helicopters prefer to hover into the wind, so start this downwind of you. If you cant downwind hover tail-in, your not ready for nose-in!
- You want to have a pretty fast rudder rate, and may need to turn your gyro sens down.
- this is easier for mode 2 guys, as the rudder flick doesn't affect cyclic if they accidently push up or down on the transmitter stick.

i have a feeling the RCAdmin bloke did his first nose in by this method only recently

trick - Concentrate on the rudder FAR rule.
This means that the FAR side of the helicopter moves in response to your rudder input.
i.e. Tail in, nose is FAR, rudder stick left pushes FAR nose left
Nose in, Tail is FAR, rudder stick left pushes FAR tail left.

this is a great way to coordinate your rudder input to your brain and good to get used to now.

When you get to inverted, you switch to the rudder NEAR rule.

Whatever works for you.

I'm more of a "mentally place youself in the cockpit" type. I don't go for the tricks.
Trying to remember Rudder NEAR, right/left cyclic reverse. prop-up the low side, fore-aft reverse, pull away rules are just too confusing when the tail rotor is about to cut a trench.... left is always left and forward is always forward. Up collective makes the heli move to my (virtual) head and down toward my (virtual) feet regardless of where I'm phgysically standing or my orientation to the ground....

Jim,
i have no idea of your experience but do remember this thread you posted recently

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...77&forumid=202

As such, i can only assume you are very experienced in planes, with limited experience in helicopters but advancing very rapidly

It makes perfect sense for experienced plane guys to begin nose in hovering from nose in forward flight as no doubt you are comfortable with this orientation from your plane flying.

i think everyone flying RC is a "place yourself in the cockpit type", whether its a car, boat, plane or heli.

the NEAR/FAR rule, is not something i made up, but has been around for many years. It is the BEST way to learn NOW, if you have any inclination for inverted flight in future.

everything else you mention is a natural extension of the FAR rule and does not require thought.

Not sure what you mean by "pull away" but if this means you dont have a planned BAIL OUT procedure, I would question your ability as a (helicopter) instructor.

sorry if my advice to other beginners offends you..

Sure do... it was a reply to one of my heli students

Ok.... granted I'm no 3d expert with helis but can mange mild aerobatics.

I'm familiar with it and the equivalent "prop up the low wing" method in fixed wing... I just don't believe they're the best method.
And so would I...
I was referring to the trick of remembering to pull aft on the fore-aft cyclic to get the heli away from you during nose-in. This is a natural extension of the FAR rules as I was told them... used to avoid hitting yourself....

No offence taken (and none intended), as I began my post, "whatever works for you", we don't all learn the same and methods change over time.... I do recall the "inverted switch" being all the rage until Mike Mass taught us the right way.... )

Thanks for all the tips. Funnily enough I worked out FAR by common sense when just flying tail in. I have progressed to a comfortable 80 degree right hand offset and am trying to be more assertive with my control movements as confidence grows. Albeit as soon as I go nose in I go to pieces. Must be in my head. I have orderd a sim and will give it a try. I hope to progress to somthing like the Eolo so I can use it in my garden. (Well away from any flying site) But must say the Hoverflight 2 is great for indoors.

Hi PJM,

Hovering nose-in is not so complicated, but I keep in mind one rule: if you think, then you're not ready and should not attempt anything new.

1. I started to practice one or two tanks per day during a week on my sim to get the reflexes (I could already fly side-in). This was last week
2. I started to try nose-in at high altitude to be safe and have the time to go tail-in in case of panic (this week).
3. I switched my gyro mode to Heading-hold and finally I could hover correctly nose-in at low altitude, land and take off yesterday (I kept my training gears for that).

I'm not in a hurry when I practice this sensational hobby. To "master" point 2 and 3, I needed 6 tanks. You can learn faster if you start directly with HH (it made a big difference for me and I find it easier now, except for the take off).

For those who dislike the sim, maybe 2 or 3 tanks in double-control will help.

Have a great day

Hi Alex
Thanks for the reply I have hooked up Real Flight 2 and have managed nose in with it. I now have to decide should I go electric or gas. I am looking for a quiet option that I could use in my garden for practise.

I fly a Raptor and a TSK MYstar.

I recently bought a Hummingbird (small electric) to get some stick time in while I'm stuck at home or on business trips....

Here's something to consider with electric helis....

The hummingbird is great fun indoors but gets blown around with even the slightest breeze outdoors. Flight time is short and charge time is l-o-n-g. I run 4 packs (3 on charge) and still have down time between flights...

A friend has the larger JR electric (Voyager) and it handles the outdoors much better but he only flew it indoors once... resulting in some plater and paint work....

I did nose in yesterday!

Been working on it on the sim for a couple weeks, and decided to try it on the real thing. I put my training gear back on (in the back yard so nobody wold make fun of me) i just set it on the ground nose in and gently lifted off keeping close to the ground just in case. turns out i did need the training gear, it was pretty ugly, and i started getting nervous so i set her down badly, but no harm, so i took a deep breath and tried again and again till i got past the fear of it, and viola! i did it!

Congratulations!

Welcome to the next level... the one where you start confusing tail-in and nose-in inputs... but take heart, this too will pass.

I actually mastered nose-in takeoffs and landings before I was comfortable with side-on hovering. In fact I've been flying mild aerobatics including loops, rolls, 540s, full-down autos for a couple years and am just now getting comfortable hovering side-on. You just gotta force yourself to work on your weak points.

Thanks!

I figure i'll take on inverted flight next week, inverted and upright tornados the following week...

There are few things more satisfying than a chalange conquered.