Andy, sorry to hear of your monetary loss. Your posts about trying to help someone when they're down and the last post about talking to his son shows the high level of integrity you have as a person and that is something that is priceless.

Marty

Andy, you made a very personal choice (and a very good one IMHO) in the heat of the moment to set your ego aside and be good to his son; it's just a shame you had to keep the lie going and it's a shame the lies won't protect those kids for long. It's up to this guy and this guy alone to do right by himself and his family. And I sure hope he has a chance to read that post and really think about what he should do, day by day, to do right by those who need him most.

Sorry again to hear of this whole unfortunate situation. I have a lot of respect for you in how you handled yourself in that situation with his son.

This is REX...to clarify the FEJ Hawk thing...I wrote a 34 page build manual for FEJ and was very involved in the first build process and review the first production of the 1/4.5 Hawk. The Hawk was mine, the P-180 turbine was Johns. It went down on the 18th flight due to a JR-1222 DSM2 Rx complete failure/loss. I had intended to get a Hawk100 also. John wanted a Hawk and it was decided (to help FEJ defray the cost of producing mine) that John would get the other one for himself. Thus, Andy funded John for his Hawk purchase which did enable me to get mine right away. John actually did much of the build on the Hawk that is pictured with him and myself behind it and he did a very good job. That picture wa taken on maiden day and I was elated with the build and the airframe performance...hence a victory pic of the two of us and the Hawk!

I consider Andy Andrews a friend, deeply appreciate his passion for the hobby and people. I hated to see what had happened in his dealings with John. I am still speechless regarding what happened and how it turned out with this whole thing...for Andy. I listened to and watched Andy, over months and months extend grace towards John...showing incredible hope and perseverence through the whole ordeal and finally just wanting to recover his goods. Andy could have lowered the boom for sure on John, but he did not which shows character and resolve few folks have.

Forgive me, Andy...if I have caused you any grief as I tried very hard to support John over the years because he does have talent (if my supporting him is why you trusted him). I believed in John as a builder, to a point of fault I guess. I do feel John has a tremendous talent BUT his work ethic has once again, claimed his demise...now in jets. John was quite often in need of encouragement to push through builds but I saw a severe change in his desire to the point that I no longer had any "authority" or even the ability to encourage him to get rolling and finish things for people. Unfortunately Andy received the brunt of this whole descent of Johns.

I used to be "I hate to build and only love to fly" so John was great in that role for me in a lot of ways. But ultimately, I found myself wanting to build my own jets simply for the alone time in the shop and because I wanted to be able to work on my own planes at meets or when I had issues with them and I want them a certain way for myself. Plus, closing my 10 year old company two years ago when the economy tanked changed EVERYTHING for me! I couldn't afford to pay someone to build for me, let alone carry 5-7 jets in my quiver!

Bottom line...Andy is right on with what he dealt with on this whole thing with John. There are proven builders out there and I would highly suggest making sure you have references of a strong work ethic be a key "proof" for your build getting done. Bill Hatcher is one of those...proven, smart, fair and delivers in a reasonable timeframe. I'm sure there are others too but I have seen Bill bring it wher it comes to completion and a good quality product in the end.

Hopefully, this will be read in the "spirit" in which it was written.

Rex

This is a damn shame. This is such a small community to do doing things like this.

I couldn't agree more with these comments.

However, at the end of the day, this is a business transaction between two parties, one to supply, and one to pay. If it goes pear shaped, then it's shame on the provider for sure, but the payee really should have known better,

If you don't have the skills/time/inclination to build something yourself, then take all necessary steps to ensure the builder you choose is "reputable", but also use common sense. If you are having a builder do major renovations to your house and they requested 100% payment before the job starts.. would you pay up ? Probably not! And neither should you pay up 100% for your jet.

Supply the kit, give them installments, and insist on progress updates with target windows for payment..... say 10% for consumables.... a further 20% once the wings are done.... and so on untill you finish with the final 20-30% payment for delivery in full. full documentation, and a get out agreement are also a good idea.

I know the TS had his heart in the right place, and hats off to you, as you are a gamer man than I. The temptation and possibilities for failure are just too great to take in a financial transaction like this. Payment by installment is still 'fair', and it provides incentive to the provider to finish the job, and finish it properly!

Having payment by installments also provides a guaranteed income.... if the job is done and proof supplied. if you pay upfront, then what incentive does someone have to deliver to your (the customers) time frame? if they are even remotely under financial pressure then your project may just be "reprioritized".... through no fault of your own, or the builder..... all the builder looses is the job, and you end up feeling played.

Guys, be carefull..... even if it is your best friend..... use your head...... there can be ways to provide incentive at a reasonable rate that the builder should find agreeable.

Andy,
Sorry to hear about this issue, its truely sad to have such issues in such a small community. You would think we would all have enough mutual respect for each other to at least look out for one another's best interest. But i do have an offer if you so choose to take up on it.

I'll be moving into a new home (which means a bigger shop) here in the next 2 weeks. I'll have enough room to bring on an extra build or 2 through the winter. If you would be interested, i'll take on one of your projects to build/complete with no expected compensation (IE, i'll do it for free, you just supply the materials). Once it is complete and you receive the model back, if you so choose to compensate me for the work involved, so be it. If not.. merry X-mas/happy holidays Again, i'm not expecting anything in return, This is just my was of trying to help out a fellow modeler. The only stipulation I have, is that their not be a time frame (don't worry, i'm not going to keep the model for 2+ years w/o any work done) for completion due to the nature of my job, i could be home 25 days a month, or gone for 6 months straight. But a build thread will be done so as to allow you and anyone else to follow along with the process.

If interested, lemme know.
Thomas

Andy, your desire to help someone out in need is commendable.  Likely you live your life this way, assisting others where possible and expecting nothing in return - but perhaps a thank you.  That is why you are able to fly many jets and have the wherewithal to do so.  What you put out comes back to you.  In your case - and it will in his. 

To have the opportunity to put it to him (in a conversation with his kid) and still stick to your values and not seek revenge really impresses me and others - who may not take the time to say so.

Keep operating as you do, with a desire to help instead of hinder.  Sometimes the result may not be what you envision and other times you may not see the ultimate result, but have faith that YOU did the right thing - and it makes a difference.  It's truly sad that others don't aspire to do so.  If you could see me, I would be tipping my hat to your Sir.

If you ever find yourself up north in NJ, please feel free to look me up.  I will insure that you find true hospitality and a great meal - on me.

Sincerely,
Len

Out of work, wife out of work, 3 kids, on government support, mean while fooling around with model jet airplanes. something aint adding up here fellows.

Hi,

Your not alone, John MONAGHAN has stolen Me in 2009, I've order a B25 118in (Ziroli plan), I've paid by paypal and I've never had my plane, never refund to, He has always another excuse, wood problem, ect......



NEVER WORK with him, sorry for my expression, I'm French

Andy, my hat off for you!

It takes a great man to deal with this how you did, not loosing the perspective

Hey Andy, keep our head up buddy. Sucks to lose money and time dealing with people like this. Not really much you can do, and the big man upstairs I am certain will smile upon you for your thoughtfulness toward the man's children. You should have stopped by here on the way thru and we could have gone out to dinner or something. Take care!
Tommy

Andy,

Just want to mirror what Thomas said. If you need any custom parts designed/made up or something built, please don't hesitate to ask. Free of charge. I would like to see you recoupe some of the money that you lost and I don't mind helping out. Take care.

Jason

That sucks Andy, sorry to hear. You handled it the right way though, so good for you. As a general contractor, we've dealt with deadbeat individuals and companies, and we've quickly discovered that its not worth going after them. You end up spending a bunch of money and dont recover your losses anyway. Better to move on.

I guess you better remove or edit this post, I was getting ready to contact this guy!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_98...tm.htm#9882524
<br type="_moz" />

Andy I do not know you and you do not know me.I and deeply touch by your story so I am going to offer you $200 for materials to get you on track with your next builder.I know its not much and please accept it.PM me were to send the check.Merry Christmas from a fellow modeler in Georgia.

He failed to return some parts of a friend of mine who makes an all composite P-47 kit. My buddy sent him his original P-47 templates as John Monaghan had agreed to cut his parts for him for this kit. John never cut an parts, and would not return the original "factory" templates. So, my buddy had to make all new templates for his kit. John is a repeat offender I am afraid. I do/have done some building on the side. I usually ask 50% down and the rest at delivery. I have always finished a deal, albeit a little late on some occasions. It gives guys like me, that offer a service, a bad rap. But, Andy, as well as my buddy, handled it very maturely, albeit at their own loss. Not sure I would be as big a man, hats off!

Jeff

Keep your head Andy! everyone is proud of you!

I've learned to work/build on stuff yourself, I've learned the hard way with cars and I just don't trust anyone! So I learned myself and I've built and showed 2 successful show cars! as of my RC aircraft collection, I believe if your going to be the pilot you should know your plane inside and out and how "you" assemble it. After its done, should be a proud accomplishment and should be appreciated and not take credit for your plane that someone else built.

Hey Andy,

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate involvement with JM. I feel your pain, cuz I've been there too, albeit not to the extent he hosed you over! The guy is the king of excuses, but it looks as though the word is now out. Damn shame, cuz like others have said on this thread, it's a small community of mostly fabulous folks, but unfortunately there are some that would take advantage of others' good will.

I'm no jet guy, but if you ever need something pulled from f/g, drop me a PM and I will give it my best shot.

Jeff

Sorry to hear about this Andy..

I feel for you Andy! That a great offer of Thomas's, it shows this forum at its best...

I build models for people and regarding payment I only ask for a small deposit, the full amount is payable on completion and only after the customer has seen the model in a pre handover viewing.

I hope you manage to find a reputable builder.

This kind of thing gives us "builders" a very bad name.  Andy, chin up lad.  Like Alex48, I only charge a deposit with full payment on receipt of finished model.  I can't see how and why a person would expect you to pay up front and I for one would not do it either.

Dave Matthews
www.dav.ie

<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 8.5pt">Andy,

You sound like you have a lot of integrity and values not to sue this person.However,5 K is a lot of money in my book. This person flat out ripped you off and really ought to be made to take responsibility here.I have read numerous accounts of this guy and by being submissive you're in a sense allowing this lunacy to continue as I am sure he is working on other victims as well. I feel for anyone with kids and having money woes. I have many kids and seen money woes myself but Iwould never take a dime from anyone without providing them what I promised or I'd give back any money collected if I could not deliver.Being gentlemanly in this case is admirable but at the same time you really should run with this in an effort to perhaps stop this person from carrying on these horrific business practices elsewhere and hurting others in the community.

Andy F</span></div>

Thank you everyone for the kind words of encouragement. Thank you to for the offers. I think like most have said this is a close community and the best thing we can do is let others know if these things happen so others won't get taken. There really is no use trying to go after the guy as some have suggested. That would be like going to the soup line to collect a debt. The guy is really on his last leg and I have no desire to try to squeeze blood out of a turnip.

A few guys asked for some pics. There really isn't much to post because he really didn't do anything other than primer the fuse, paint a fin and hatch cover. Here are some I can share showing where the crooked hinges were, bad glueing, butchered gear door (I sent him two new ones from BVM and he sliced one up), varous cracks, running paint and areas where it is clear that he just sprayed the primer over smooth paint without even sanding it. Also one pic shows the two strips of 1/4 inch ply with globs of glue that probably weighs a lb tying to shore up the belly where there was some bubbling due to a wet start one time.

Yeah, for some reason it won't let me edit this so I will post the same as here on it. Thanks for pointing that out.

<span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;"><span style="font-size: larger;">What you seem not to understand ... Not all of us have the skill to build nor the desire. Glue and I really stick tight ... to every thing. Now if I could machine it on a Bridgep</span></span><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS;"><span style="font-size: larger;">ort or a LaBlond it would be a differant story.
as for learning a lot by building is one thing but now REPAIR is a whole differant story. Lot harder to put broken parts back togeather than starting with new. Would you not agree.
</span></span>

That's why I build my own good bad happy or sad only me to blame.............................