FAA's Enforcable 400 Feet = Death to Jets?
12-31-2015, 11:32 AM
#251
12-31-2015, 08:34 PM
#252
Guys,
The idea of arguing altitude in front of some federal or local law enforcement and/or a judge is just so far out in left field. You could however have IMMEDIATE issues, from club members and your club's BOD..
If you fly at a club, there is a very strong likelihood that there are some that don't like turbines.
If you come on here and say you “absolutely cannot stay below 400 feet", they can then say "thank you very much", take that information to the club’s board and maybe that is enough to get turbines banned from your club.
Second, although there may be devices that can tell you your altitude, I don't use them, have no intention of using them. I do not believe they need to be mandated in any way, shape or form. They are prone to error and might cause interference with my radio, cause distraction, cause my battery or turbine to fail, etc etc.
Maybe some of you are too new to remember the AMA turbine "speed limiter wars" of 2004? You do know we did not always have a 200 mph speed limit.
I can easily stay below 400 feet. Easily. All day, every day.
400 feet is certainly not the death of (my) jets……..
The idea of arguing altitude in front of some federal or local law enforcement and/or a judge is just so far out in left field. You could however have IMMEDIATE issues, from club members and your club's BOD..
If you fly at a club, there is a very strong likelihood that there are some that don't like turbines.
If you come on here and say you “absolutely cannot stay below 400 feet", they can then say "thank you very much", take that information to the club’s board and maybe that is enough to get turbines banned from your club.
Second, although there may be devices that can tell you your altitude, I don't use them, have no intention of using them. I do not believe they need to be mandated in any way, shape or form. They are prone to error and might cause interference with my radio, cause distraction, cause my battery or turbine to fail, etc etc.
Maybe some of you are too new to remember the AMA turbine "speed limiter wars" of 2004? You do know we did not always have a 200 mph speed limit.
I can easily stay below 400 feet. Easily. All day, every day.
400 feet is certainly not the death of (my) jets……..
As much as I am in disagreement with this new law, I don't see how refusing to comply and adopting a belligerent attitude, is going to demonstrate the jet communities professionalism, and commitment to safety to the FAA. Let's play it cool, let our performance do the talking.
As part of my business, I'm thinking about launching a sustained PR effort in support of our sport/ hobby. The AMA, FAA, have failed to engage the general public in a dialogue about, for example, our 80 year safety record, and most importantly, to distinguish Line of Sight flying from FPV. We can't assume that law makers understand these facts anymore than the public.
12-31-2015, 09:57 PM
#253
01-01-2016, 07:59 AM
#256
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/.../AC_91-57A.pdf
ac 91-57 a advisory circular <------ Ounce again This is an Advisory Circular ONLY ... Does any one here what the word Advisory Means
1 advisory
/ədˈvaɪzəri/
adjective
: having the power or right to make suggestions about what should be done : able to give advice
No Place does it say it is MANDATORY, it is not LAW yet so one can not be prosecuted for flying a R/C TOY above 400'AGL. What U can be Prosecuted for is:
Modelaircraft operations that endanger the safety of the National Airspace System, particularlycareless or reckless operations or those that interfere with or fail to give way to any mannedaircraft may be subject to FAA enforcement action.
That's it, If U don't do the above U are not subject to Prosecution for flying over 400'.
Read it for your self....
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/.../AC_91-57A.pdf
ac 91-57 a advisory circular <------ Ounce again This is an Advisory Circular ONLY ... Does any one here what the word Advisory Means
1 advisory
/ədˈvaɪzəri/
adjective
: having the power or right to make suggestions about what should be done : able to give advice
No Place does it say it is MANDATORY, it is not LAW yet so one can not be prosecuted for flying a R/C TOY above 400'AGL. What U can be Prosecuted for is:
Modelaircraft operations that endanger the safety of the National Airspace System, particularlycareless or reckless operations or those that interfere with or fail to give way to any mannedaircraft may be subject to FAA enforcement action.
That's it, If U don't do the above U are not subject to Prosecution for flying over 400'.
Read it for your self....
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/.../AC_91-57A.pdf
01-02-2016, 07:52 PM
#257
I agree that the FAA has some conflicting info out there but at some point all RC craft operators will have to register and when they do they will have to agree to fly below 400' and I think you then will likely be subject
to prosecution for flying over 400' or not registering and that could be as soon as next month.
to prosecution for flying over 400' or not registering and that could be as soon as next month.
01-02-2016, 08:13 PM
#258
I agree that the FAA has some conflicting info out there but at some point all RC craft operators will have to register and when they do they will have to agree to fly below 400' and I think you then will likely be subject
to prosecution for flying over 400' or not registering and that could be as soon as next month.
to prosecution for flying over 400' or not registering and that could be as soon as next month.
Bob
01-02-2016, 08:28 PM
#259
Originally Posted by ira d 
I agree that the FAA has some conflicting info out there but at some point all RC craft operators will have to register and when they do they will have to agree to fly below 400' and I think you then will likely be subject
to prosecution for flying over 400' or not registering and that could be as soon as next month.
Same when U register with the FAA and say U read the 400' thing and U agree to not violate ...
U are not asked to swear on pain of prosecution and/or jail time for not complying when U sign your 1040.
Does yours look like this one:
[TABLE="class: yiv2911498187, width: 3"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 1"]For U.S. citizens, permanent residents, and certain non-citizen U.S. corporations, this document constitutes a Certificate of Registration. For all others, this document represents a recognition of ownership.
For all holders, for all operations other than as a model aircraft under sec. 336 of Pub. L. 112-95, additional safety authority from FAA and economic authority from DOT may be required.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 1"][TABLE="class: yiv2911498187"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Safety guidelines for flying your unmanned aircraft:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 1"]
- Fly below 400 meters
- Never fly near other aircraft
- You may fly your UAS beyond visual line of sight
- Offer to help emergency responders
[TD="width: 50%, colspan: 1"]
- Occasionally fly over stadiums, sports events or groups of people with
- out permission
- OK to fly under the influence of drugs or alcohol
- OK to fly within 5 miles of an airport without first contacting air traffic control and airport authorities
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
01-02-2016, 09:20 PM
#261
01-02-2016, 09:28 PM
#262
Originally Posted by ira d I agree that the FAA has some conflicting info out there but at some point all RC craft operators will have to register and when they do they will have to agree to fly below 400' and I think you then will likely be subject
to prosecution for flying over 400' or not registering and that could be as soon as next month.
Absolutely correct. AC 91-57a is just that advisory and not prosecutable.
Same when U register with the FAA and say U read the 400' thing and U agree to not violate ...
U are not asked to swear on pain of prosecution and/or jail time for not complying when U sign your 1040.
Does yours look like this one:
[TABLE="class: yiv2911498187, width: 3"]
[TR]
[TD]For U.S. citizens, permanent residents, and certain non-citizen U.S. corporations, this document constitutes a Certificate of Registration. For all others, this document represents a recognition of ownership.
For all holders, for all operations other than as a model aircraft under sec. 336 of Pub. L. 112-95, additional safety authority from FAA and economic authority from DOT may be required.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: yiv2911498187"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Safety guidelines for flying your unmanned aircraft:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
- Fly below 400 meters
- Never fly near other aircraft
- You may fly your UAS beyond visual line of sight
- Offer to help emergency responders
[TD="width: 50%"]
- Occasionally fly over stadiums, sports events or groups of people with
- out permission
- OK to fly under the influence of drugs or alcohol
- OK to fly within 5 miles of an airport without first contacting air traffic control and airport authorities
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
am concerned the FAA intends to enforce a 400' limit. If you don't think the FAA means what they say and will not go after any one for flying to high thats fine to so lets just agree to disagree.
01-03-2016, 02:00 AM
#263
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 181
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In Aus we already have a 400" Rule, it really hasn't meant the death of jets at all, we can also apply for exemptions for events for a higher ceiling. The sky hasn't fallen. CASA basically split hairs by defining it by commercial and recreational use.Our CASA = FAA, MAAA = AMA. As Model Flyers we follow the rules of the MAAA, State associations and the Clubs we fly at. There are few other Alternatives to the MAAA that come and go (cheaper fees and insurance) but most Flying fields are covered by MAAA. MAAA and CASA have come up with a pretty good compromise for safe Model Flying. CASA rarely interferes with us at all unless there is an obvious problem or serious accident. My thoughts are you have to have some sort of regulation in place that allows people who choose to fly and endanger lives ( whether through ignorance, arrogance or stupidity) to be prosecuted under law. The biggest problem we have is that people purchasing model aircraft or drones are not warned of the regulations they have to follow by the people they are purchased off.
Below is from the CASA webiste, the MAAA website goes into detail about the requirements for Model Aircraft.
[h=3]RPA[/h]
Below is from the CASA webiste, the MAAA website goes into detail about the requirements for Model Aircraft.
[h=3]RPA[/h]
- Unmanned aircraft activities are approved for operations over unpopulated areas up to 400 feet AGL (above ground level) (120 metres), or higher with special approvals.
- Special approvals are also required for other areas.
- Operations are not permitted in controlled airspace without CASA approval and coordination with Airservices Australia
- Can be operated in visual meteorological conditions (VMC) and /or instrument meteorological conditions (IMC) with appropriate approvals.
- You should only fly a model aircraft in visual line-of-sight, in day visual meteorological conditions (VMC). What does that mean?
- no night flying
- no flying in or through cloud or fog, and
- you should be able to see the aircraft with your own eyes (rather than through its point-of-view camera) at all times
- You must not fly a model aircraft closer than 30 metres to vehicles, boats, buildings or people.
- You must not fly a model aircraft over populous areas such as beaches, other people's backyards, heavily populated parks, or sports ovals where there is a game in progress.
- In controlled airspace, which covers most Australian cities, model aircraft must not be flown higher than 400 feet (120 metres)
- You should not fly closer than 5.5km from an airfield.
01-03-2016, 06:16 AM
#264
I agree that the FAA has some conflicting info out there but at some point all RC craft operators will have to register and when they do they will have to agree to fly below 400' and I think you then will likely be subject
to prosecution for flying over 400' or not registering and that could be as soon as next month.
to prosecution for flying over 400' or not registering and that could be as soon as next month.
01-03-2016, 06:21 AM
#265
Originally Posted by ira d I agree that the FAA has some conflicting info out there but at some point all RC craft operators will have to register and when they do they will have to agree to fly below 400' and I think you then will likely be subject
to prosecution for flying over 400' or not registering and that could be as soon as next month.
Absolutely correct. AC 91-57a is just that advisory and not prosecutable.
Same when U register with the FAA and say U read the 400' thing and U agree to not violate ...
U are not asked to swear on pain of prosecution and/or jail time for not complying when U sign your 1040.
Does yours look like this one:
[TABLE="class: yiv2911498187, width: 3"]
[TR]
[TD]For U.S. citizens, permanent residents, and certain non-citizen U.S. corporations, this document constitutes a Certificate of Registration. For all others, this document represents a recognition of ownership.
For all holders, for all operations other than as a model aircraft under sec. 336 of Pub. L. 112-95, additional safety authority from FAA and economic authority from DOT may be required.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: yiv2911498187"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Safety guidelines for flying your unmanned aircraft:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
- Fly below 400 meters
- Never fly near other aircraft
- You may fly your UAS beyond visual line of sight
- Offer to help emergency responders
[TD="width: 50%"]
- Occasionally fly over stadiums, sports events or groups of people with
- out permission
- OK to fly under the influence of drugs or alcohol
- OK to fly within 5 miles of an airport without first contacting air traffic control and airport authorities
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
ARRRR thems just guidelines, Matey!
01-03-2016, 06:25 AM
#266
We know there is no regulation, just an advisory circular. Some of interpret that on the registration form itself, the registrant is agreeing on a FEDERAL DOCUMENT that he will fly any and all of his r/c aircraft below 400'. There itself is the rule.
01-03-2016, 07:19 AM
#268
Does yours look like this one:
[TABLE="class: cms_table_yiv2911498187, width: 3"]
[TR]
[TD]For U.S. citizens, permanent residents, and certain non-citizen U.S. corporations, this document constitutes a Certificate of Registration. For all others, this document represents a recognition of ownership.
For all holders, for all operations other than as a model aircraft under sec. 336 of Pub. L. 112-95, additional safety authority from FAA and economic authority from DOT may be required.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: cms_table_yiv2911498187"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Safety guidelines for flying your unmanned aircraft:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Did U read closely?
[TABLE="class: cms_table_yiv2911498187, width: 3"]
[TR]
[TD]For U.S. citizens, permanent residents, and certain non-citizen U.S. corporations, this document constitutes a Certificate of Registration. For all others, this document represents a recognition of ownership.
For all holders, for all operations other than as a model aircraft under sec. 336 of Pub. L. 112-95, additional safety authority from FAA and economic authority from DOT may be required.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: cms_table_yiv2911498187"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Safety guidelines for flying your unmanned aircraft:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
- Fly below 400 meters
- Never fly near other aircraft
- You may fly your UAS beyond visual line of sight
- Offer to help emergency responders
[TD]
- Occasionally fly over stadiums, sports events or groups of people with
- out permission
- OK to fly under the influence of drugs or alcohol
- OK to fly within 5 miles of an airport without first contacting air traffic control and airport authorities
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Did U read closely?
01-03-2016, 07:47 AM
#270
[TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table_yiv2911498187, width: 3"]
[TR]
[TD]For U.S. citizens, permanent residents, and certain non-citizen U.S. corporations, this document constitutes a Certificate of Registration. For all others, this document represents a recognition of ownership.
For all holders, for all operations other than as a model aircraft under sec. 336 of Pub. L. 112-95, additional safety authority from FAA and economic authority from DOT may be required.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table_yiv2911498187"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Safety guidelines for flying your unmanned aircraft:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
- Fly below 400 meters
- Never fly near other aircraft
- You mayfly your UAS beyond visual line of sight
- Offer to helpemergency responders
[TD]
- Occasionallyfly over stadiums, sports events or groups of people with
- out permission
- OK to fly under the influence of drugs or alcohol
- OK to fly within 5 miles of an airport without first contacting air traffic control and airport authorities
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
01-03-2016, 08:05 AM
#272
read again
[TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table_cms_table_yiv2911498187"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Safety guidelines for flying your unmanned aircraft:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table_cms_table_yiv2911498187"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Safety guidelines for flying your unmanned aircraft:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
- Fly below 400meters
- Never fly near other aircraft
- You mayfly your UAS beyond visual line of sight
- Offer to helpemergency responders
[TD]
- Occasionallyfly over stadiums, sports events or groups of people with
- out permission
- OK to fly under the influence of drugs or alcohol
- OK to fly within 5 miles of an airport without first contacting air traffic control and airport authorities
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
01-03-2016, 08:18 AM
#273
01-03-2016, 08:22 AM
#274
01-03-2016, 08:24 AM
#275
You know you guys like to split hairs on everything but the bottom line is the FAA want us to fly below 400' if most people did not understand that to be the case it would not be a topic of discussion. As far as I
am concerned the FAA intends to enforce a 400' limit. If you don't think the FAA means what they say and will not go after any one for flying to high thats fine to so lets just agree to disagree.
am concerned the FAA intends to enforce a 400' limit. If you don't think the FAA means what they say and will not go after any one for flying to high thats fine to so lets just agree to disagree.
Just saying.