Okay, let us muddy these waters up a little more. One rotor a helicopter makes, two or more it is a Multi-rotor. So in full scale a CH-47 Chinook is a helicopter, so if one where to model it, would be a helicopter or an MR????

Exactly. The only individuals and r/c equipment that have been involved in these issues are the multi rotor individuals. And in most cases it's a multi rotor being flown via FPV. I've not heard of any incident involving fixed wing a/c. Simply, multi rotor a/c requires very little if no flying experience to operate. And what's the fun of flying a multi rotor with a camera if it can't be done so over buildings, houses, people, landmarks, events, etc.? If the multi rotor folks flew in responsible locations, they wouldn't find filming rocks, dirt, empty fields, etc. that interesting to do. Mater of fact the only thing "fun" about flying multi rotors is when watching the playback from the camera onboard as it was filming over cities, buildings, houses, people, events, etc. if the multi rotor folks only flew where us fixed wing folks fly, they're be bored of flying multi rotor. I tried a friend's multi rotor once and after a minute I was bored with it. My definition of multi rotor is one of those four motor or more deals that looks like a flying octopus. Those things are boring to fly if done so in accordance with the rules & regulations of the AMA and now FAA. The FAA is now stating that these multi rotors shall only be flown within LOS. 99.9% of the problems caused by the folks flying these things were being flow outside the LOS.

Airplane= single engine, multi engine, biplane, flying wing, seaplane, canard, etcetera!!!
Helicopter= Single rotor ( rare, I know they exist but mayby not in model form) multi rotor, gyrocopter, etcetera!!

Species and sub species, how is this forum setup..... helicopters......helicopters/electric........helicopters/electric multirotor etcetera!!
Airplanes....airplanes/pattern......airplanes giantscale........airplanes giantscale electric......

All depends what amount of description one needs to make it clear of what is being communicated..... no?... yes?

IMO a so called " traditional helicopter" Main and tail rotor controlling the yaw axis is multi-rotor just as a " multi -rotor" uses same type of mixing of controls between the diagonal pares of rotors to control the yaw axis!!!!

The Chinook just as the bell222 are helicopters, but more precise multi-rotor helicopters!!

Never heard of people being killed by fixed wing rc aircraft???.. that would be an incedent... never heard of flying fields being shut down??.. that would be an incedent... because of fixed wing rc aircraft.... what country are you from and how long you been doing it?????

I'm like you, found the drone way to easy to fly, very boring! If my planes where not the challenge they are I would not have stayed in this hobby, My planes are modeled after world war one and two beauties, the drones are models of ??????, all I know is they are right down the ugliest flying things I ever seen! And do agree they would be bored with them if they flew the same boundaries as we do with the fixed wing stuff and helicopters.

Such incidents have happened wit traditional RC - but far fewer and over a much longer time frame. Also they have generally involved only people who were involved with the flying.

Trying to drum up some new members huh? Guess that guy flying on his own property is flying a drone instead.

What model drones did you fly?

Not sure, the one I flew was new that one of the mechanics at the airport had, it was not set up right so I dialed it in for him, flew it and handed it to him and he flew it, it was his first experience with RC, it was just under Two Hundred bucks as I remember him saying.

Yes those cheap plastic toy self stabilised multicopters are very easy to fly and would be boring to most traditional RC Pilots. I find them boring too.

If you ever have the chance to fly a high performance hobby grade CF multicopter like this I'd be interested in your opinion. These have thrust / weight ratios exceeding 10:1 and roll rates greater than 1000 degrees per second. In full manual mode it's all on the pilot with no cheating self stabilisation.

I like my fixed wing RC aircraft and will always keep flying them but after the reflexes adapted to the manoeuvrability of these acro quads the fixed wings now all feel like they are flying in slow motion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osVCI6Ej8xE

The technical skill needed to build one of those aircraft is amazing enough, because it's not just pulling that out of a box, or throwing some props on it. It's a build from the ground up, where precision is required. Then of course is the programming of the escs and motors. But that's of course the easy part, because now it needs to get flown. Everytime I see that video I'm more in awe of what that pilot is able to do, even the soil/airframe testing...ha! That's why it's so much more disturbing to see fellow hobbyists advocate for the banning of this specific type of pilot/hardware. It's completely senseless to me. And it's not just fixed wing guys, it's from the heli folks too. A third rotor blade is suddenly the litmus test for exclusion. I don't think I will ever grasp that as a reality, or anything even remotely considered fair. Thanks for sharing that video, it's almost as good as the "quad at 44,000 feet" but I'm on to that one now.

The one I was referring to is the high end DJI white drone that has the special camera gimbal on it. To me it was boring. But I've also tried one of those drones that can be bought at Brookstone's that are operated with an apple device. There was a third one I tried that was made of black plastic and had its own brand tx. Not sure what brand that one was. To me they were boring to fly.and even watch as someone else flies them. The only time I thought it was cool to watch one of these fly was when a guy hooked up a bunch of custom LED lights on it and flew it balls to the wall across the moonless sky in the middle of the night. That was pretty cool. But that was, is, and always will be the one and only exception to the rule.

Yes those three you mention are designed to be easy enough for anyone with no prior experience to fly and have very weak performance. Two are basically just toys without any power or weight to cope with outdoor flight in wind.

The Phantom (DJI White one) is one of the most popular RTF drones in the world and if you fly RC aircraft I totally understand why you found it boring. (It is super stable and will auto hover hands off)

High performance acro multicopters are completely different animals and are a lot of fun to fly.

This kid gives a good demo of what they can do. I especially like the 'flipping' circle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TktTO-ePsoc

Yes Grant is a talented pilot and also one of the nicest and most down to earth guys I have met in this hobby. (No pun intended)

I realise the programming side of flying multicopters is not everyone's cup of tea but I actually enjoy it. In the last twelve months alone new developments in flight controller and ESC firmware (e.g. Betaflight, Oneshot, BLHeli 14 etc) have literally supercharged my quads from how they flew when I first built them.

I totally get what you are saying, these guys at the level they're at are serious hobbyists and there is no doubt they bring a lot to the hobby and certainly are aware of the safety concerns, sadly, they are not the ones spoiling it for not only the RC community as a whole and MR guys in particular. I certainly don't want to see them banned either but I certainly want to see stronger action for those that are either unaware and punishment for those that don't care.

Them 3d quads are sick I want one so bad! Love the orange one in ama book last issue aerial something inother.. Seen some video and was flying inverted has reversal esc's on 4s wow to much power! These in video way to much power for me insane!! Don't look boring to me boys. All carbon fiber force frames on some of these so can take some crashes. Man if I didn't need s motor for my raptor I get one maybe my raptor can wait lol. Dang you quad guys my wife going to kill me just got my raptor now I want a 3d quad!!

I as see it certain definitions are getting a little mixed up. Drones are being called multi rotors, multi rotors are getting called UAV's etc.

I would classify it thus...
A drone is a radio controlled air vehicle consisting of a fixed or rotary wing attached to a fashioned fuselage (containing the radio and propulsion equipment) and having a working fixed or rotary tail piece.

A multicoptor is a radio controlled air vehicle consisting of a body to which all the rotors are attached. The vehicle can be controlled with radio system, gps, return to home or any combination of them.

Badly flown multicoptors seem to be the fly in the ointment

I'm sure I've upset someone. Though, this is not hard with the feeling running so high.

Exactly, I started flying rc 30 years ago. Started with trainer then onto pattern and old school heli. Still fly my Tiporare and Xcell60 heli from that time period. I was all ways into soaring also. I have micro planes for the yard and fly edf jets. I have been in and out of the hobby many times over the years. People talk about boring MR, well same could be said flying constrained in a circuit at a flying club. Mr has brought an excitement over Rc once again in my life...Building from scratch and the skill to fly and the mental challenge to program and get a whole working safe package together is rewarding. I'm working on a scratch built flying wing at the moment, never in my modeling years has so much advanced technology mixed with my flying hobby. I'm also a Ham and it has invigorated that hobby for me also some of the technology requires a ham license.

Dave

I watched both videos and admit outside the crash I could not do what they did with them, they flew them what looked like a designated area not to high, that most of us can live with. Its when anything is flown to high, and when they are being flown over people that gives me pause. Using them to spy on folks and flying them out of line of sight is the problems we are having. I think most of us want is anything flown, to be flown in a manner that is NOT giving us negative feedback,

A better question would be to define what a drone isn't.

The model jets we fly aren't drones.

Andy

According to the DOT and FAA your jets, my good man, are most assuredly a Drone and therein lies the problem. Until they redefine the definition of a Drone and separate Multi Rotor out of the mix we will be impacted.

That was my thought too when I read the first post. Yep! A PITA for sure.
Frank

DOT is involved to? I didn't know that.

DOT is the parent agency of the FAA, so they are involved by default. That has been one of the battles that the AMA has been arguing, to get the definition changed to separate the MR's and other more so called "traditional modeling", so far they have fallen on deaf ears. Be forewarned that the FAA wants unbridled control of the Nation's Airspace, no more of this "outside the 5 mile Controlled Airspace 400ft free airspace" business, they want to control all of it from the ground up and they don't want to muddy the waters by changing the Drone definition. I fear we have only seen the tip of the iceberg.

OK, everybody it looks like it's time to vent.
I have made a life and living working in aerospace, and feel very fortunate to have been able to go the places I've been and to do the things I've done as a result of this career choice. I am still working in this field and hope to be able to retire only after it's been forced upon me.
A large part of what led me down this path in my life, was the chance to participate in model aviation. This hobby taught me paticence, persistance, mechanical skills, and more than that, was the beginning of my education in reading and following plans, drawings and instructions in order to successfully construct, finish, rig and fly all manner of model aircraft.
Now, on to the reason for this rant.
As a result of the irresponsible and idiotic use of the multi rotor miniature aircraft that have become so prevalent. Those of us that have participated in this hobby/sport for many generations and decades, are staring down the possibility of being forced to register with the Federal Aviation Administration and comply with rules that are far too restrictive and unreasonable.
You see, there is already a set of rules that us responsible modelers have followed for a very long time. These rules can be found at the Academy of Model Aeronautics web site at https://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.PDF.
If you take the time to read these rules, you will find that those of us that are members of the AMA are required to conduct ourselves in a safe and conscientious fashion. That we are a social community that are enthusiastic about our hobby and helping others that share similar passions. You will find that those of us that are AMA members only fly our models at dedicated fields that were specifically set up for our hobby/sport. For the most part, the only time we might fly away from a dedicated field, is to do a demonstration for an airshow or for educational purposes at local community schools. Always with safety as a prime consideration.
Contrast this with the new era of the digital "look at what I'm doing on facebook" crowd, coupled with the easy availibility of no the skills required to operate or construct multi-rotor flying machines.
The one thing I have heard from this group more than anything?....They want and to go and fly their camera carrying multi-rotor craft someplace other than a dedicated field for the purpose of taking movies or pictures". Now in some instances this is not a problem and their goals pose no danger to persons or property. Then there's the other group.
These are the folks that show no care or consideration for the safety or privacy of others, and these are the people causing the problems.
Let's get a couple things cleared up. Not all miniature flying machines are drones, but all drones are miniature
flying machines. You see, a "drone" has the ability to operate in an autonomous fashion. A mode that needs no input from it's operator and can also be flown beyond the VISUAL RANGE of the operator. This is done with on-board computers and GPS technology
Those of us that responsibly participate at dedicated fields for model aircraft will not operate a drone in this manner to a point that it is beyond visual range of the operator. Also, there is the relatively new technology of miniature video transmission and reception that allow for what is known as "First Person Viewing". This is also a very popular thing for "drone operators" to play with as they recklessly launch their multi-rotors into the sky.
For us to operate such a "drone" at a dedicated model aircraft field requires that the operator have an "observer" with him at all times during operation of the "drone". The observer is there to assist the operator with calling out any possible hazards and to possibly take over control of the craft using his direct line of sight perspective to prevent any danger to persons or property.
I have hopes that our community based organization, the Academy of Model Aeronautics can find some way to successfully persuade the FAA to make the new registration requirement and the severely restrictive rules that go along with it apply only to those individuals,flying multi-rotor or even more conventional fixed wing or rotorcraft actual "drones" at locations other than those set aside for the dedicated use of model aircraft. And leave the rest of us that have been enjoying this hobby/sport for generations and decades alone.
Don't just assume we are all the same.
I have a few select names I use to refer to the folks that are causing us these problems. The terms, "paste eater", "bed wetters", "bottom feeders", "nun punchers", "puppy kickers" , "seat sniffers" and "window lickers" all come to mind. But I have done my best to refrain from throwing these around in my rant.