Some time ago I purchased a used Hotspot complete minus receiver. I am now setting everything up with a JR PCM 9 channel receiver.
The Hotspot has split elevons using 4 servos.
I have connected each pair of servos via a Y lead to the aileron & elevator ports on the receiver as per the instruction manual. The wing setting is for delta in the transmitter.
The problem I have is, when operating the ailerons or elevator, one half of each elevon goes up & the other down, same on the other wing. Reversing elevon & aileron only reverses the split movement. If I juggle the four leads around I can get elevons ok or ailerons, but not both.
I can only assume one servo in each wing is reversed. Unfortunately to get at them means some surgery & as the plane is so nicely painted I want to avoid this if possible.
I have seen the plane fly, so there must be a solution. I wish I knew what it was?

Hi Jascat100,

What about using two of the JR matchboxes, one each side that way you can reverse the backwards running servo and adjust the end points to each servo so they both are the same
Thats if you can get to the Y lead inside the wings?

cheers Pete

Jascat100, just swop the leads into the receiver - elevator and aileron and then try again and it should come right if you are using a y-lead to join the 2 servos in each wing

Zane

Negative....the Y lead on your "AILERONS" is the problem. By matching those 2 servos together, they don't work "INDEPENDENTELY" and therefore, the radio can't work them separately so that one goes up and the other goes down. Yes, you CAN use a matchbox to reverse the throw on one of them, but then you cancel out many mixing features you can use on your computer radio. The aileron servos must be connected individually to different slots on your receiver. With my setup, slot 1 gets one aileron and slot 6 gets the other, thus controlling each independentely. From there, you can reverse any one as needed right from the transmitter. Hope this helps...let me know if you still need help.

possible correction.....the Hotspot control surfaces....as i'm not familiar with this model, does it use only 2 control surfaces both acting as elevator AND aileron? Or are there 4, 2 in the middle for elevator and 2 outboard for ailerons? If you have 4, the above explanation applies...if only 2, let me know, i'll tell you how to set it up.

The best way to sort your problem is to use 4 channels on your receiver then you can mix them how you want , ie the inboard can be used as elevator and the outer as ailerons, or you can mix them as elevons , this way you have some chance of getting back in one if a servo goes down.And also you can set up crow breaking

Jim, you're getting some messed up advice here. Feel free to call me at 512-656-2357 and I'll walk you through it.

Tomcat man, He said he has the two servos each side connected to a Y. From the Y to the receiver. You can't have independent control of the two servos on one side of the airplane with that configuration, so why are you even asking?

Also, having flown deltas in all the configurations available and seen hundreds of delta setups, I can tell you that I have only seen one time where an RC pilot split into the configuration you speak of.

By the way, Zane's advice is the first line of action.

Plus, the book details this out. I believe they say put the left side of the airplane on Aileron and the right side of the airplane on elevator.

Also, before you try it, reset the model as any reversing you've done needs to go away.

Sean

Sean, you're right. However, that's not what I meant. Yes, he mentioned 4 servos, that should've immediately told me, 4 control surfaces. All i'm saying is, in order to use the outboard surfaces as ailerons, they should be on separate ports on the receiver. Then it becomes a matter of deciding if you want use use the entire tail surface as an elevator/elevon or only the 2 inboard surfaces as an elevator. Take the SR-71 for instance...up elevator makes all 4 surfaces go up while maintaining aileron control on the 2 outboard surfaces. Or you can apply elevator control to the 2 inboard surfaces ONLY. Either way, the AILERON surfaces should be connected independetely while connecting the 2 inboard surfaces with a Y into one slot on your receiver for elevator control. This is the way I would do it, this is how i've seen it done in the past. If there's a better way of doing it avoiding complex mixing of up to four channels to achieve the same goal....I'M ALL EARS. Just my .02

One more thing....it appears that he has, as you said, the 2 servos from each side connected to a Y. Why would you connect an aileron and an elevator servo together when each performs a different task? That makes absolutely no sense at all. If anything, like I said, connect the 2 inboard elevator surfaces together...not the ailerons.

Tomcat man, you need to go look at some hotspots. I've never seen one setup like you speak of, and this guy does not have it setup that way.

We are talking Elevons here. He even said "elevon program (correction, he said Delta, same thing)". You do not setup inboard elevator and outboard aileron with "elevon program".

Next thing you're gonna tell me that the outboard control surfaces can do elevon and the inboard control surfaces can be setup as flaps to slow the hotspot and give more lift on landing

I would test the setup by taking one wing at a time and plug it into an unmixed channel. Make sure that both servos move the same direction. If they do the problem is with your mixing. if they don't then either one servo is upside down or you have a strange 'y' harness.

Once you have determined that the surfaces on each wing panel move in the same sense it is a simple task of plugging the 'y' lead in the correct channel and activating the elevon mix.

It is fairly common to have each surface plugged into it's own dedicated channel. If the above test shows that with a 'y' plugged into an unmixed channel the surfaces move in opposite directions then this may be the easiest option.

Hope this helps.

Jascat100,
This issue is getting seriously clouded by all the advice you are getting, if I understand (and I will clarify what I read in your post) correctly I think I may be able to help you here.

First, you have split elevons on both wings, 2 servos per side. Each side is y'd together (left side y'd together and right side y'd together) and one side is in channel 1 and the other in channel 2, am I correct in this assumption?

And this is the problem you are having.....you move the elevator the elevons on each wing goes in an opposite direction(example: left wing outboard elevon goes up, inboard elevon goes down) and same for right side and same for aileron control.


Here is what your problem is, if everything I said above is correct. Your servos are facing different directions in the wing (example one is facing the root and the other the tip)

Solution...get 2 matchboxes so you can get them working together, or use 4 channels on your receiver, or if possible, change the way one servo faces in each wing so that they each wings servos are facing the same direction. All of this has been said her but just not clearly I think. The easiest and cheapest solution solution would be to use 4 independent channels but am not sure if you have the free channels available to use. If not go with the matchbox.

There is possibly one other problem here as well which is a longshot but possible, the servos are programmable and the owner reversed one on each side for some odd reason. Hey, I said it was a longshot but yet very possible.

I hoped this helped you.


Patrick.

Why not just bond the two elevon halves together, and use one 8411 or 8611 on each side????

This is what I did on my Roo II, using one 8611 per side.

Mark, that is EXACTLY what I am talking about. If you have only 2 solid control surfaces, then yes, a standard elevon condition applies. But that's not the case here, as Seanreit is reluctant to see and acknowledges so thru sarcastic remarks which are very uncalled for. WHY WOULD YOU Y TOGETHER 2 SURFACES OF EACH SIDE WHEN THEY'RE MEANT TO WORK INDEPENDENTELY...HENCE 4 CONTROL SURFACES INSTEAD OF 2? The 2 most inner surfaces act as elevator while the 2 most outer surfaces act as ailerons. You can mix both so the entire control surface acts as an elevator while maintaining independent aileron control on the 2 outer surfaces. In order to do that, and I can't stress this more so, the outer surfaces MUST be connected separately from the inner surfaces and INDEPENDENTELY of eachother. Only the inner surfaces can be Y'd.

You need all four surfaces to act as elevator to get the required amount of control response on the delta wing. It is a true elevon setup. The roo/rookie/hotspot and most other deltas should have the outboard and inboard surfaces 'y' together.

As was stated earlier you can go even further than this and glue them together and use one servo.

I'm sorry tomcatman but Seanreit is correct.

EDIT: the reason for having split elevons is redundancy in the event of a servo failure.

Tomcat:

I'm always up for a good argument, but in this case I'll simply say you're not smart enough to be having this conversation.

Other conversations maybe, but not this one Buck is the only Jet Pilot I've ever seen with the setup you speak of. You are likely not the caliber RC jet guy is that Buck is, not that you'd have to be, but there is no reason to set this hotspot up any differently than any other delta wing hotspot, roo ever built. I've built three roos with "4" control surfaces all setup with the configuration this man speaks of. I've built two Eurofigthers and setup countless other delta jets.

Catch you on the flipside,


Sean

I can certainly understand the redundancy issue, it's a great failsafe, but then why have 4 control surfaces if both surfaces on each side will always act as one? That's not how scale aircraft with 4 surfaces work. So I guess the question here is...is it a matter of flying for safety (redundency) or scale where control surface operation is concerned? Personally, if a delta model has 4 control surfaces, i'd prefer to use them as such. Otherwise, just give me 2 surfaces and I won't have to worry about bonding the 2 on each side together as has been suggested. Even with 2 surfaces, I can still use 2 servos on each side if safety might be an issue should a servo failure occur.

Seanreit, I can certainly appreciate a good argument as well so long as it's done in good taste. It's how we learn. Perhaps you should look closely at footage of how scale aircraft with more than 2 control surfaces fly, such as, the SR-71 and even the B2 Bomber just to name a few. While the entire tail surface can and does act as an elevator, the outboard surfaces work INDEPENDENTELY as ailerons although in case of the B2 Bomber, I think they're actually split spoilers that provide aileron control. And you're right, I don't HAVE TO BE as smart a pilot as anyone else, but I 'm smart enough to know that what i'm saying is correct and works. But thanks for your input on what YOU think a smart pilot is none the less. Finally, and if it's ok with you, I think I can decide for myself what conversations i'm qualified to have.

Whether i'm right or wrong, who are you to make that assertion? RCU is here for ALL OF US to give our opinions based on our own experiences and learn from them, please try not to forget that. Have a nice day!

Hey hey hey, This thread was so that someone could ask a question and get a reply to a problem they were having, not for you guys to come on here and start B*&^%$#G at one another. How about letting the thread get back to the original subject.


Also, for sake of clarification. If you look at the BVM Rafale, which is a TRUE delta wing, he has you set up the two inner surfaces as elevator and outer as ailerons. If you want to do the wild aerobatics with it is when he tells you to set it up like the hotspots are set up. So all of you are partially right and none of you are totally wrong. It can be done both ways, but for the sake of this thread let's stick with the way 99.9% of all hotspots are setup.


Thank you...

Patrick.

Thank you Patrick, that has been my point all along. It's just senseless to have a 4 control surface tail and set it up to use it as a 2 control surface tail. It defeats the purpose of having 4 control surfaces. Yes, you are absolutely right. Thank you so much.

Why is it senseless?

What is wrong with it?

By the way I don't disagree entirely with you. My Balsa USA Enforcer is supposed to operate how you suggest but I have converted it to operate the same as the Roo/Hotspot.

Ok, I stand corrected. Perhaps senseless was a wrong choice of words. Obviously, it comes down to your paticular preference for flying a 4 control surface delta. You all already know how I feel about it. Now, back to you Jim, and I hope you're not sitting there reading all this and saying to yourself "LOOK AT WHAT I STARTED!!" LOL. If you want to have each pair of surfaces for each side working together, then connect each pair of each side to a Y and connect them into your receiver on the elevator and aileron ports. Select the elevon condition on your radio and reverse either/or as necesary to achieve the proper direction of travel for each set of surfaces. It's really the only thing I can think of. And as we all know now, there are smarter pilots out there who can chime in. Best of luck to you Jim.

And this is what I was looking for, someone with a real question rather than someone throwing advice out that doesn't really "know".

Yes, I agree there are many full scale applications with outboard ailerons in a delta configuration.

We are not talking a scale jet here. We're talking at worst good turbine trainer, and at best, a really fast fun RC Jet.

The purpose of the Y on each side is as stated before, redundancy. If I lose a servo, I increase the chance I get it back. If you setup with the four surfaces as stated/ ail elev each side. Chance of getting back? Probably Zero based on my hundreds of flights on Roos.

And the BVM Jet referred to? Scale jet not sport. Oh, and the plane I'm referring to that Buck flies? Yup, you guessed it, that was the only Delta jet I've seen setup that way.

Tomcatman, I rarely get personal on this site, you've seen enough of my posts to get a flavor for my shooting from the hip. When I read that you're asking questions about how to put in a nipple on a tuned pipe and then tell a guy that he should be setting up his elevons on a Turbine Jet having never seen a Hotspot, I believe I'm right in questioning your suggestions.

I agree, this site is to Talk Shop on RC and learn from everyone. I stand by that everyday and ask a lot of questions myself.

I don't suggest setting things up on which I have no experiance unless someone says shoot from the hip and tell me what you "think".

Like I said, and here we go again, "PERSONAL PREFERENCE". Just because it's not a scale airplane, it doesn't mean you can't choose to fly it as such. Where redundency is concerned, most model aircraft use only one servo per control surface anyway...what makes them any less or more safe? Just because i've never flown a Hotspot, it doesn't mean I don't know how a 4 control surface delta configuration can or cannot be flown babe. I've been around this hobby long enough to know that much. To each his/her own is what I always say. You have your way and the rest of the world has theirs. Neither is necesarily better than the other.

Fair enough. If you want to use your method that is fine.

In my expensive jet I will personally will stick with the method in the Graupner instructions (which I guess are the same as Comp-ARF although I have not seen them) and have been proved worldwide by 100s if not 1000s of roos/rookies/hotspots.

I am not experienced or brave enough to deviate from the manufacturers method when it comes down to control surfaces. Further to that I can see no benefit in doing so. You will end up using the same number of servos but removing the redundancy.

I would strongly suggest that the starter of this thread does likewise.

siclick33, you must be older than me, cause I don't have it in me to be as eloquent But very well said.


My version is if you want to walk with the Big Dogs, you got to stop peeing like a pup.

Then again, I'm from Texas