Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
02-20-2005 | 01:05 AM
#26
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RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
Hay Guys, I got my T45 last week, and have it almost ready for turbine install. I am also building a BVM King Cat, and had the pleasure of spending some time with John Redman, while he was here at the Pheonix flying field training a friend on his King Cat.
Here is my question, John has set up the King Cat to use CROW, a really simple way to make both ailerons go up ward when landing flaps are deployed. It really slows the KC down alot, could this configuration work on the Hawk, ??? Has anyone tried??
Kevin Marks
Here is my question, John has set up the King Cat to use CROW, a really simple way to make both ailerons go up ward when landing flaps are deployed. It really slows the KC down alot, could this configuration work on the Hawk, ??? Has anyone tried??
Kevin Marks
02-20-2005 | 01:57 AM
#27
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
ORIGINAL: Ali
K Marks
On my Hawk my settings for take off flap were 15mm down Maximum with no elevator mix. For landing I use maximum of 30mm flap travel and 15mm of up elevator. This is how mine was set and it was perfect. It came in on approach hands off. But! Do not assume this will be perfect for all. I am sure there will be a few millimeters of setting to do on both flap and elevator. The most important thing to remember is that you CAN NOT and I cant specify this enough. You can not deploy the flaps whilst this model is traveling at speed.
If you apply full flap on this model at any kind of speed the model will pitch down and the flap will override the elevator no matter how much mixing you have. My advice to everyone is to take some time during the first flights and following flights to get used to the flaps and how they interact with pitch. I suggest getting some height, slowing the model down into wind and as the speed decays gradually applying more and more flap. This way you can monitor any pitch change and get used to the feel of the model.
When deployed correctly the flaps can be left down and the model flown perfectly happily. My only concern is with either too much speed or too much flap without the correct up elevator mix.
Another point to remember is that you want to set your mix from flap[ to elevator so that the elevator is a progressive as the flaps. I fly a hawk recently where the customer had set the flap and stab mix so that he only got his 15mm of up elevator when full flap was deployed. Not Good. He had a model that wanted to pitch down until he hit full flap and then it would shoot back up again.
With the correct flap set up the model will sit perfectly for landing. You can see some of the videos of my hawk from long and short fields at my web site www.alshobbies.com (Video section)
As for power. Its a tough one. I like the way mine flew with the P-120 because I never had to use full throttle which males a pleasant change. But I knew I had the power there if I wanted it. My Next hawk will have a Mercury installed. I know this will have the right sort of power for nearly everything I want to do with the model. I too have a Pegasus sitting here doing nothing but I am sure this is just too powerful and too heavy.
Sorry I cant help with he 10X I was a Futaba man but have only recently switched to JR but all I know is the MX22
I am sure the P-70 would fly the model but it would not set the world alight, but if you want to fly the model in a scale fashion it would probably be perfect. i am sure with the fuel consumption of the P-70 you could get away with only one of the skymaster tanks and the overall weight would be lighter.
Brian
Sorry no news on the MB339 release date yet. The model had flown and all is good and if we wanted too we could go into production in a matter of weeks. But!!! As of last month the plug was being totally re engineered to make it more scale in out line and detail. This model is being produced for Al's Hobbies and when I commissioned the project the goal was to have as close to scale MB339 as we can get, and the one I flew in China although perfect in flight performance was far from what I wanted in scale outline.
Mini Flyer.
I would be very interested to see pictures of your landing light and instrument panel. I always wanted a landing light I think it might look good on my new hawk. Thankyou for your opinions on the nose section.
K Marks
On my Hawk my settings for take off flap were 15mm down Maximum with no elevator mix. For landing I use maximum of 30mm flap travel and 15mm of up elevator. This is how mine was set and it was perfect. It came in on approach hands off. But! Do not assume this will be perfect for all. I am sure there will be a few millimeters of setting to do on both flap and elevator. The most important thing to remember is that you CAN NOT and I cant specify this enough. You can not deploy the flaps whilst this model is traveling at speed.
If you apply full flap on this model at any kind of speed the model will pitch down and the flap will override the elevator no matter how much mixing you have. My advice to everyone is to take some time during the first flights and following flights to get used to the flaps and how they interact with pitch. I suggest getting some height, slowing the model down into wind and as the speed decays gradually applying more and more flap. This way you can monitor any pitch change and get used to the feel of the model.
When deployed correctly the flaps can be left down and the model flown perfectly happily. My only concern is with either too much speed or too much flap without the correct up elevator mix.
Another point to remember is that you want to set your mix from flap[ to elevator so that the elevator is a progressive as the flaps. I fly a hawk recently where the customer had set the flap and stab mix so that he only got his 15mm of up elevator when full flap was deployed. Not Good. He had a model that wanted to pitch down until he hit full flap and then it would shoot back up again.
With the correct flap set up the model will sit perfectly for landing. You can see some of the videos of my hawk from long and short fields at my web site www.alshobbies.com (Video section)
As for power. Its a tough one. I like the way mine flew with the P-120 because I never had to use full throttle which males a pleasant change. But I knew I had the power there if I wanted it. My Next hawk will have a Mercury installed. I know this will have the right sort of power for nearly everything I want to do with the model. I too have a Pegasus sitting here doing nothing but I am sure this is just too powerful and too heavy.
Sorry I cant help with he 10X I was a Futaba man but have only recently switched to JR but all I know is the MX22
I am sure the P-70 would fly the model but it would not set the world alight, but if you want to fly the model in a scale fashion it would probably be perfect. i am sure with the fuel consumption of the P-70 you could get away with only one of the skymaster tanks and the overall weight would be lighter.
Brian
Sorry no news on the MB339 release date yet. The model had flown and all is good and if we wanted too we could go into production in a matter of weeks. But!!! As of last month the plug was being totally re engineered to make it more scale in out line and detail. This model is being produced for Al's Hobbies and when I commissioned the project the goal was to have as close to scale MB339 as we can get, and the one I flew in China although perfect in flight performance was far from what I wanted in scale outline.
Mini Flyer.
I would be very interested to see pictures of your landing light and instrument panel. I always wanted a landing light I think it might look good on my new hawk. Thankyou for your opinions on the nose section.
i am also building a Skymaster hawk for a customer
nice model , very nice details
but as always here are a few minor details i didnt like:
and it is no bashing just some minor things i found
since the quality is great in overall
fingerprints of glue on the fuselage
also on the canopy , scratches
the wood parts to mount the servo,s are to say the least of a very poor quality
maybe they schould be left out and use MULTIPLEX 9mm instead
i mean in the manual they say to use them also for the elevator
but to mount a 8511 on 2 wooden block that i could just break right thru the middle with my fingers was not my first choice
especialy for the elevator
after inspection i found out that the wood is to soft
also it has been cut in the wrong direction so that the multiple layers are stacked on to each other
it schould be in the oposite way so that the layers are vertical when mounting
and yes i checked if i would them mount in the other direction they are to short.
landing gear:
one of the brakes air input has broken off it came like this in the package
maybe they schould have a quality control or something when shipping
Thrustpipe and engine mounting: it was much to long for the jetcat 120 i had to cut off 2 cm of the intake
and another 3cm of the thrust pipe
also i did not like the fact that the bellmouth is that small
i replaced it with a longer type so that the exhaust is covered by this
much safer in operation , and i am sure this part is just as easy to make
also the manual states to put the jetcat in ,use the special wooden lift blocks
they are not in the package , i found out that if you raise it with 18MM it is in line
maybe it is better to have that changed from the factory?
since most turbines mounts are centered
shortage:
there where simply not enough alu parts to mount the servo,s
rudder servo :
the graupner 3328 digital bearely fits
and i had to grind the cover to have it closed
you have any tips on using another?
since the 3328 is extra build to fit in small places but is slightly to thick
rudder horns mounting:
when cutting the ailerons , rudder
there is just a empty room in there no balsa
so it is extremely difficult to have them glued correctly i uses plenty of glue to fill it and then mount them
however on the flaps there was enough balsa to glue them.
they forgotten something?
for the rest:
great model
very nice build by the factory
all fits and is in the right place
and can be build in just 7 days
for the price it beats anyone by far
ps : ali could you send me the settings for the MX-22?
the CG do you have it exactly as the manual?
or did you set it on 180MM but nose slightly down?
Best regards
and keep up the good work
02-20-2005 | 03:08 AM
#28
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
Hello, Sandor
when I see your post, I just cheching the inside of Flaps with Ailerons for Hawk,
I am sure that Hawk has put the Balsa inside for the Ailerons and Flaps Horns,
I will better our Quality and TKS for your suggest,
Regards
Anton
when I see your post, I just cheching the inside of Flaps with Ailerons for Hawk,
I am sure that Hawk has put the Balsa inside for the Ailerons and Flaps Horns,
I will better our Quality and TKS for your suggest,
Regards
Anton
02-20-2005 | 03:21 AM
#29
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
ORIGINAL: pilot tw
Hello, Sandor
when I see your post, I just cheching the inside of Flaps with Ailerons for Hawk,
I am sure that Hawk has put the Balsa inside for the Ailerons and Flaps Horns,
I will better our Quality and TKS for your suggest,
Regards
Anton
Hello, Sandor
when I see your post, I just cheching the inside of Flaps with Ailerons for Hawk,
I am sure that Hawk has put the Balsa inside for the Ailerons and Flaps Horns,
I will better our Quality and TKS for your suggest,
Regards
Anton
wow you did not had to destroy the wing to show me [8D]
but really the wood for the flap was there
but i could not find the aileron wood
maybe mark it next time on the outside?
02-20-2005 | 03:36 AM
#30
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
Hello, Sandor
don't worry, the Flap with Aileron are our cancel parts,
I just see the inside that our worker has make a mistake,
I will QC all our ARF Jet by myself , when they delivery to your doors,
Please feel free contact to us for better our Quality,
don't worry, the Flap with Aileron are our cancel parts,
I just see the inside that our worker has make a mistake,
I will QC all our ARF Jet by myself , when they delivery to your doors,
Please feel free contact to us for better our Quality,
02-20-2005 | 03:39 AM
#31
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
here are some pics
i saw the manual mentioned the aileron servo,s but now looking closely the picture on the manual is from the flap
maybe that was the mistake?
maybe in the next revision of the manual a little clearer
i saw the manual mentioned the aileron servo,s but now looking closely the picture on the manual is from the flap
maybe that was the mistake?
maybe in the next revision of the manual a little clearer
02-20-2005 | 03:49 AM
#32
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
ORIGINAL: pilot tw
Hello, Sandor
don't worry, the Flap with Aileron are our cancel parts,
I just see the inside that our worker has make a mistake,
I will QC all our ARF Jet by myself , when they delivery to your doors,
Please feel free contact to us for better our Quality,
Hello, Sandor
don't worry, the Flap with Aileron are our cancel parts,
I just see the inside that our worker has make a mistake,
I will QC all our ARF Jet by myself , when they delivery to your doors,
Please feel free contact to us for better our Quality,
i like the honnesty and to be honnest these are small things that are solved easely
the good thing about a forum is that we can share the things and come up with good suggestions and even make a better product
i know myself how hard it is to even write a good manual that is absolutely fool proof
no matter what we do there will be always small mistakes or small things overlooked
anyway like i said i like the procuct
you made good reinforcements on wings and fuselage
i am sure it can take some rough handling
Best regards
Sandor Kruise
02-20-2005 | 03:54 AM
#34
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
ORIGINAL: pilot tw
Hello, Sandor
Please see this picture that will be right,
I think that I must clear in the our manual again,
Hello, Sandor
Please see this picture that will be right,
I think that I must clear in the our manual again,
i see now what you mean
but for strenght is it not better to move the servo to be as close to the center of a aileron or flap?
also it is better for the hinges to have the control horn near them for strenght
anyway this is how i always set them , but now to see the picture it is more clear
02-20-2005 | 01:00 PM
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RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
Hello Pilot TW,
I am also building the Hawk, firstly I will say you have done a wonderful job, it builds nice and everything fits. I do have a few recommendations:
1. Holes drilled in fuse to accept wing aluminum studs need to be more accurate, not egg shaped to allow toggle movement.
2. The new Carbon Fiber control horns are great, but you need to resize the hole for the clevis to accept the American standard clevis. On most of the surface i will drill and install a ball link system, but never the less for a general all purpose use the hole needs to be smaller.
3. The gear doors seemed to bend more than I would like, I needed to apply a layer of Carbon fiber for more rigidity.
4. I agree that the bell mouth to the double walled pipe is to small, increase the diameter a bit.
5. I have glued the wood servo mounts into the wing for flaps, and now notice when all is assembled that the balsa laminate is too weak and allows the flap servo to move when a small amount of torque is put on the flap. (simulating what pressures may exist when in actual flight. I will need to apply some carbon fiber around the already glued in wood servo mounts.
All in all, these are just small details that many modelers can over come, never the less, in your efforts for improvement please correct in the future.
I also have my eye on your new F16, and Mirage 2000.
Thanks for a wonderful jet.
Kevin Marks
I am also building the Hawk, firstly I will say you have done a wonderful job, it builds nice and everything fits. I do have a few recommendations:
1. Holes drilled in fuse to accept wing aluminum studs need to be more accurate, not egg shaped to allow toggle movement.
2. The new Carbon Fiber control horns are great, but you need to resize the hole for the clevis to accept the American standard clevis. On most of the surface i will drill and install a ball link system, but never the less for a general all purpose use the hole needs to be smaller.
3. The gear doors seemed to bend more than I would like, I needed to apply a layer of Carbon fiber for more rigidity.
4. I agree that the bell mouth to the double walled pipe is to small, increase the diameter a bit.
5. I have glued the wood servo mounts into the wing for flaps, and now notice when all is assembled that the balsa laminate is too weak and allows the flap servo to move when a small amount of torque is put on the flap. (simulating what pressures may exist when in actual flight. I will need to apply some carbon fiber around the already glued in wood servo mounts.
All in all, these are just small details that many modelers can over come, never the less, in your efforts for improvement please correct in the future.
I also have my eye on your new F16, and Mirage 2000.
Thanks for a wonderful jet.
Kevin Marks
02-20-2005 | 01:34 PM
#36
My Feedback: (16)
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
Hi Kevin,
I guess you might have seen my post on the fuel system also. I just received my BAE Hawk on Friday and I'm ready to install the turbine and landing gear. Did you get the new carbon fiber control horns with the kit, or did you have to order them seperate? I didn't receive any control horns at all, and I only got 6 angle brackets to mount the servos to. Did you receive at least 8 to mount the servos in the flaps and ailerons? Thanks for making notice to the flex in the flap servo location. How did you attch the gear doors? When it comes to the brakes, where did you put the Y connection? I'm flying a Kangaroo with a Jet Cat P-80, just purchased another Jet Cat P-80 for the Hawk. If you have any photos they might be a big help..
Thanks
Larry Wright
I guess you might have seen my post on the fuel system also. I just received my BAE Hawk on Friday and I'm ready to install the turbine and landing gear. Did you get the new carbon fiber control horns with the kit, or did you have to order them seperate? I didn't receive any control horns at all, and I only got 6 angle brackets to mount the servos to. Did you receive at least 8 to mount the servos in the flaps and ailerons? Thanks for making notice to the flex in the flap servo location. How did you attch the gear doors? When it comes to the brakes, where did you put the Y connection? I'm flying a Kangaroo with a Jet Cat P-80, just purchased another Jet Cat P-80 for the Hawk. If you have any photos they might be a big help..
Thanks
Larry Wright
02-20-2005 | 04:28 PM
#37
Thread Starter
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
The above points are pretty much what I found, and in my review I will be suggesting some changes and improvements . However, overall the kit is very good and when all these small but importatnt QC issues are solved this will be an outstandingly good kit.
Regards,
David Gladwin
Regards,
David Gladwin
02-20-2005 | 06:26 PM
#38
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
Hi Larry,
Yes I ordered the carbon fiber horns seperate from cost of kit. Always ask is there any thing else I may need when ordering a kit. I learned this many moons ago. The 6 aluminum servo brackets can only be used on standard size servos, so I put them on both flaps, and elevator.
I am sure most may not agree, but when it came to the small JR aileron servos, I sanded the bottom and aero poxied them in. Now in doing so, I make sure by trial and error, that the servos are in the nuetral point (by using the tranmitter and reciever and making sure they are correct) then a lining the servo horn at a 180 (T) degree to the moving surface. It seems that Skymaster has built the servo lids on an angle??? No worry, but be sure to set the servo and horn at a 180 (T) to the moving surface.
It is important (for me) that the distance from nuetral servo horn to carbon fiber horn must be installed at the same distance, and that the horn on the moving surfaces are identical to each other. ESPECIALLY FLAPS. I achieved this by making a small jig and using a drill bit that fit in the hole of the horn. On the jig CA a piece of balsa and keep the distance the same by measuring from the trailing root, NOT THE HINGED FRONT ROOT. I measure from the trailing root, because your robart hinges my be slightly in deeper on one side and thus giving inaccurate distance.
So there is what if have done so far.
I just bought a P120, and will install when I get it in a few days. The gear doors I am still deciding how I want to mount, but besides that the entire plane is done. I have been home sick for the past 4 days and have worked on it for about 6 days total. It's ready for the turbine. Not bad when you consider every other build up kit takes almost 6 months to a year to build and detail. Scale kits of course. The King Cat has taken me about 3 weeks to build and I finished that up today also. Nice hobby to have when your home sick.
Kevin Marks
Yes I ordered the carbon fiber horns seperate from cost of kit. Always ask is there any thing else I may need when ordering a kit. I learned this many moons ago. The 6 aluminum servo brackets can only be used on standard size servos, so I put them on both flaps, and elevator.
I am sure most may not agree, but when it came to the small JR aileron servos, I sanded the bottom and aero poxied them in. Now in doing so, I make sure by trial and error, that the servos are in the nuetral point (by using the tranmitter and reciever and making sure they are correct) then a lining the servo horn at a 180 (T) degree to the moving surface. It seems that Skymaster has built the servo lids on an angle??? No worry, but be sure to set the servo and horn at a 180 (T) to the moving surface.
It is important (for me) that the distance from nuetral servo horn to carbon fiber horn must be installed at the same distance, and that the horn on the moving surfaces are identical to each other. ESPECIALLY FLAPS. I achieved this by making a small jig and using a drill bit that fit in the hole of the horn. On the jig CA a piece of balsa and keep the distance the same by measuring from the trailing root, NOT THE HINGED FRONT ROOT. I measure from the trailing root, because your robart hinges my be slightly in deeper on one side and thus giving inaccurate distance.
So there is what if have done so far.
I just bought a P120, and will install when I get it in a few days. The gear doors I am still deciding how I want to mount, but besides that the entire plane is done. I have been home sick for the past 4 days and have worked on it for about 6 days total. It's ready for the turbine. Not bad when you consider every other build up kit takes almost 6 months to a year to build and detail. Scale kits of course. The King Cat has taken me about 3 weeks to build and I finished that up today also. Nice hobby to have when your home sick.
Kevin Marks
02-20-2005 | 08:29 PM
#39
My Feedback: (21)
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
Kevin
you plan on bringing your birds to Tucson in a couple of weeks?
Barry and I rigged my trailer today to haul the following birds. SM F-18, SM-F5, BV Kingcat, F-4 and Rafale.
should be a good trip. better be some good weather or else!!! LOL
how 'bout some pix of the bird.
get well
Buck
you plan on bringing your birds to Tucson in a couple of weeks?
Barry and I rigged my trailer today to haul the following birds. SM F-18, SM-F5, BV Kingcat, F-4 and Rafale.
should be a good trip. better be some good weather or else!!! LOL
how 'bout some pix of the bird.
get well
Buck
02-20-2005 | 08:48 PM
#40
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RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
Hay Buck looking forward to seeing you and flying some jets. I just got my AT400 electric auto start, and will put that back into the Rafale, F18 got new Gary Mueller tanks, the original ones leaked, and is ready to go, I just finished the king Cat and here is the latest. For the time and the cash, it's awesome!!!
See you guys at Tucson, lets go out for dinner, Vin can't make it, so I will be all alone......
see ya
Kevin
PS. I get all my technical advice from Madison photo #3. She will be with me in Tucson as my caller. One bark for up, 2 barks for down. LOL
See you guys at Tucson, lets go out for dinner, Vin can't make it, so I will be all alone......
see ya
Kevin
PS. I get all my technical advice from Madison photo #3. She will be with me in Tucson as my caller. One bark for up, 2 barks for down. LOL
02-20-2005 | 08:52 PM
#41
My Feedback: (21)
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
holy smokes bro'!!! 6 days from box to field. that beats my F-15 build by a whole day!!! and I was only doing elevons .
I'm looking forward to seeing the Awww Geez Wally Hawk take to the sky. the real one is real slippery. I imagine this one will be the same way. smoove like a patten job.
see ya in tucson
cheers
buck
I'm looking forward to seeing the Awww Geez Wally Hawk take to the sky. the real one is real slippery. I imagine this one will be the same way. smoove like a patten job.
see ya in tucson
cheers
buck
02-20-2005 | 10:52 PM
#42
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
Hello, Kevin
Thank you for your suggest, I will improvement these points as your suggest,
Please keep your eye for our new projects ( F-16 and Mirage-2000),
Sincerely your
Anton
Thank you for your suggest, I will improvement these points as your suggest,
Please keep your eye for our new projects ( F-16 and Mirage-2000),
Sincerely your
Anton
02-20-2005 | 11:00 PM
#43
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
Hello, Larry
Yes, the Hawk kit including the 6 angle brackets for Flaps and Rudder only, We suggest using the JR # 3301 servos, the # 3301 do not need the Angle brackets , but we had put the wood mounts for Aileron servos in the kit,
Sincerely your
Anton
Yes, the Hawk kit including the 6 angle brackets for Flaps and Rudder only, We suggest using the JR # 3301 servos, the # 3301 do not need the Angle brackets , but we had put the wood mounts for Aileron servos in the kit,
Sincerely your
Anton
02-21-2005 | 09:41 PM
#44
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RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
just a questions about servos, WHICH servo is everyone using for the ailerons and rudder on the skymaster hawk?? hitech? jr? multiplex?
i need to order a few for my hawk, so i was just wondering what everyone else is using
thanks
mark
i need to order a few for my hawk, so i was just wondering what everyone else is using
thanks
mark
02-21-2005 | 10:54 PM
#45
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RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
tonight my new hawk was delivered by ups, so here is the big box just sitting there, got home late from work, relaxing having dinner, i then decided to open box and inspect it, well everything looked great, no problems with shipping, A plus on packaging, so then , i just had to slide the wing tube in, slid the wings on, slid both halves of the fuse together, the added the tail feathers, this bird is HUGE, lots of nice detail work in the fuse and wings, cant wait to get started putting her together
mark
mark
02-22-2005 | 09:08 AM
#49
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
ORIGINAL: pilot tw
Hello, Sandor
I wish you had a nice flight.
Sincerely your
Anton
Hello, Sandor
I wish you had a nice flight.
Sincerely your
Anton
i hope you will have a good first flight?
now it sounds if i crashed it allready...
but you wisched i didnt
02-22-2005 | 09:12 AM
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From: Saalfelden, AUSTRIA
RE: Skymaster BAe Hawk Fuel system
Hi Sandor, is it possible that you put the national insignia onto the fuse for inverted flight
? Aerobatic guys seem to be hardcore...
Thomas
? Aerobatic guys seem to be hardcore...Thomas
