Hello all

Turbine support parts are getting smaller every day.

Checkout this micro pump and ECU.

The combo works together supper smooth I have it running my JDE54.

The current draw is so low compared to the other speed 280/300 pumps I have.

Any others using this pump?

Johnny

I am interested in the lifetime of this pump! I know that these small motors have only metal brushes, and no carbon ones. They normally do not last long.
Keep us informed johnnyjet about the pump lifetime.
And the TCU is not a Autostart one? Or am i wrong?
TO

Hi
Ageless




I did some research and this is a heavy-duty carbon brush ones similar to the ones used in the upper end dvd burner.

It wow me also.

The ECU is air start one I am going to order an auto start front end for the turbine this week.

Will use the battery for starts and cool down external from the aircraft.

Johnny

I use two of those ECU`s which are the eco ecu by fadec,one on a wren 54 and the other on a ram500 and they have 10/15 hours on each and are both perfect .
Cost very little too! ( £80.00 sterling)

jason

Thats what I am doing on my Reaper. After taxiing back to the pits I plug in the battery, shut donw the engine and then switch on the starter motor to cool down the turbine. Usually takes 30 seconds or less to get below 50 degrees C. No more blower to haul around!

Andrew

Thanks

Jason

I am glad to hear the great results.

Johnny


“ Thats what I am doing on my Reaper. After taxiing back to the pits I plug in the battery, shut donw the engine and then switch on the starter motor to cool down the turbine. Usually takes 30 seconds or less to get below 50 degrees C. No more blower to haul around!

Andrew”


Hi

Andrew

Some of your earlier post is what got me going to the auto start front end.

What ECU are you using?
What start temps are you getting when you use the start motor only?

Thanks
johnny

My ECU is the "JDE" stickered FADEC ECU sold with the Wren kits. I havent a clue what JDE has been selling currently with the engine kits, as I bought mine back in April of this year. The ECU I have is NOT capable of fully auto start, but a semi-auto start. At the time, I wanted to get a full autostart system, but Dennis at JDE told me he was not interested in a fully auto start MW54 as the fully auto stuff was too tempermental and some other reasons. I said no problem and bought what I got now. The ECU does work very well, and offers a decent set of parameters you can change to fine tune start up and ramping. My engine exhaust runs at approx.600 degrees during startup, no flaming. I did have the ramping set a bit slow at first and took some fiddling to get the start sequence right on. But now it is fast and easy, and never a hot start.

I will get a full autostart on my next engine however, to try the difference. For this one, I like what I have now, it works well and I am very used to it.

Andrew

Hi
Andrew

I believe we have the same ECU good to hear about your cool starts.

Do you use just propane or a mix?

Johnny

I would take a pic of it, but it is over at my parents place in a spare bedroom for winter storage. I keep all my planes out in my garage but didnt want the turbine out in the cold all winter. I can if you want, but it is a smallish reciever sized box, square, with the plugs for the pump, battery and connections for the RPM, and receiver. Has two led's on it, and also the plug in for the LCD panel.

For startup, I use plain old propane! Just a pure propane cylinder from the hardware store. I use a bernzomatic valve I stole from my oxy/propane torches and it works well. I use a festo one way valve off the engine, and an ACE RC retract quick disconect for the hookup (twist on). I just crack open the the gas and got to know where it should be from trial and error. If you use TOO much propane, I find the ECU will not start the kerosene flowing to the engine, IE, it will run up to about 25,000 rpm and sit there. If you close the propane slightly, it will then continue spooling up and ramp up on the kero. The start sequence I get now is so fast, once I light the plug, I turn on the gas. Blip the starter motor for a second, the gas usually ignites right away and I turn the starter back on. Once it hits 20,000 or so, you can hear the kero kick in, and it quickly gets to 29,000 and I kill the starter. Wjile I am closing the propane valve, and disconect the line and remove the glow lead, it has gotten to idle (45,000) and is ready to go. All in all takes maybe 15 to 20 seconds.

One thing, I find the glow plug has to be glowing HOT for good starts. I use my field box power panel turned all the way up.

One more thing... I amusing a 5 cell battery pack for my fuel pump. on 4 cells, I cant get to 160,000 rpm. On 5, the red light on the ECU stays on (too low % of pump voltage) so I made and installed a bypass valve like in the Kamps book (basically a pressure activated overflow - adjustable by spring pressure). Now I get full power settings at 95 to 97% pump voltage, and I simply have the overflow line going back into the main tank. All that wasnt covered in the manual, but as a kit engine you have to figure out some of this stuff on your own I guess.

Andrew

Hello,

The FADEC ECO ecu that you are talking about is the 2001 version. The hardware is the same on Wren and JDE units, but the software is custom for the JDE units, written under the JDE specifications.

Below I attach a pictures of the new version, that will be available in January. This unit is smaller than the one that you have, about 2/3 of the size, to be used in the new generation of small engines, like the MW44 and the Artesjet Bee.

The weight is 25g the manual start version, and 45g (1.3oz) the full autostart version.

Despite the small size, it have more features than the current one, like a flight recorder memory that stores the measures of the engine and airspeed each 0,5s up to 52 minutes.

Regards,

Gaspar

Thank you

Andrew

That is a great report just what I was looking for!





Wow

Gaspar

To hear from you is a true privilege.

I have a 66 that could use an auto start.

If it will run my 66 ok put me on the January list.


Johnny klinner

johnnyjetk

Gaspar, Do you have a Fadec unit for the RAM 500?


Thanks
W.G.Hunter

Hello Gaspar

Thank you for designing the fadec, Great unit and its very compact. I wanted to ask a question about the ECO ecu. I have 2 units that came with my JDE-54's

1. Im currently having problems with my bypass setup introducing bubbles. To combat this I thought if I could control the voltage out of the battery I could have a electronic bypass of sorts. I have made a variable voltage regulator that will be adjustable so that I can tune in a 95% pump duty cycle. Is this ok, and what do you think about this approach.

I have found a low dropout voltage regulator lm1084 adj from National Semiconductor that has a drop out voltage of around 1.5 v to use for this purpose.

In my tests so far, as long as the battery voltage is at least 1.5 V above the set output voltage, the output voltage is rock solid when input votage is changed. The turbines were run once with a fixed 5 V regulator but that was too much and the pumps were running at 60% at full throttle, that is why im going to the adjustable voltage. The run was uneventfull, however I did notice that the high end pump % was much more steady than it had been in the past.

Hello Johnny

Cool looking pump where did you get it?

If the bypass is introducing bubbles in the fuel line, there must be a leak. The bypass is simply a way for the excess fuel to return to the main tank, and is pressurised one way, to the tank not from it, therefore the air must be entering somewhere. Did you make the bypass like in Kamps book? I used a piece of rubber from an inner tube first, NO GOOD! It deteriorated and failed quickly with contact with the kerosene. I later used a piece of cotton backed rubber of some type that I cut from a glove used to handle chemicals/fuel and that seemes to hold up for many many runs. One thing about a mechanical (spring) pressure limiter, once you set the spring pressure and lock the adjustment screw, there is no way for it to go off adjustment, or fail, or what have you.

AJC

PS what is the difference with the Fadec ECU I received with my 54' kit (from JDE back in APril 2002) and the current ECO unit , besides size I mean? Are they the same functions?

Hello,

@ Johnny: Yes, these units are capable for Kj66. The list of tested engines includes SimJet, Jetcat P120 and bigger engines.

@ W.G.Hunter : Of course, the RAM 500 too, as it is like a MW54. But not AMA legal if you are in the USA. I have some costumers that are using it on a RAM 500 successfully.

@ Duke: I don't know what your JDE instructions say about fuel bypass, but it isn't necessary in these units, it was necessary in the old pressure types. Don't know what type of pumps are supplied now in the JDE kits, but in the Wren kits using the Wren supplied pump (Hausl 280) the recommended battery voltage is 4,8V. Simply use 4,8V battery packs, and let the ecu to take care of the battery voltages.


For further questions, you can ask me directly at [email protected]

BRG,

Gaspar

Gaspar,
I found my engine (MW54) would only get to about 145,000 or 150,000 rpm with a 4 cell nicad pack. Thats why I went to a 5 cell pack, then it was too much and my ecu light would flash and the display showed only 25% or so pump voltage. Thats why I used a mechanical bypass and it works well. Not as easy if you cannot machine your own (can you buy them even?) but for me it worked well.

In my JDE instruction sheet it does say to use a bypass. Also says use a 2 cell pack ?? my engine would only run up to 100,000 rpm with 2.4V

Andrew

PS I use hausel pump

Hi Andrew,

As I said, I don't have read the instructions of the JDE kit. Using a hausl300 pump it is posible to run the MW54 with only 2 cells, we use 3 for the KJ66.

I don't think posible that with 6V you use the 25% of pump power to go to 160K and with 4,8V you only arrives at 145K at 100% power. MAthematics fail here.

In any case, if the pump is a Hausl 280 (plastic rear cover), you can use 6V without bypass. But I think that better use 4,8V.

Gaspar

Gaspar,
I do not remember the "exact" value the ecu showed when I ran the 5 cell pack but I do remember it was very very low. FOr sure, the engine on 2 cells (what I ran first) would only go to 100,000 rpm. On 4 cells would max out at about 150,000 no matter what. When I went to 5 cells, it would go easily to 160,000 but the percent pump voltage showed very low. As suggested in the instruction I installed the bypass and that fixed the problem.

I think different pumps, with varying degrees of efficiency (due to improper tolerances, for instance my hausl was way too tight and the gears rubbing severly so I had to take a .001 clearance cut on the pump face) and in these cheap can motors they use for the pumps, there is much varience too. Can that not explain the fact different people using the same engine/ecu have to use different voltages for pump battery?

regards,
Andrew Coholic

AJ, when I was using the excellent FADEC on my TJT 3000s (before going to TEMS full auto start), I was using a 4.8 volt pack and running a 28 lb thrust engine fine with it. Have you looked to see if you have a fuel restriction or too much 4 mm line?

Hello Andrew,

Ok, if you are happy with your setup, perfect. I only say that a mechanical regulator is a bit overkill, the ECU can manage voltages for the pump battery up to 10V.

From the safety point of view, your system is good, in the case of electronics fail you have a backup system to protect the engine.

Gaspar

Hi

Duke

What’s up its been a while.

These pumps are a few Dennis was trying out and he let me get one with the JDE54 kit.

I think he is a Hausl fan, maybe he will carry booth.

Duke if you have-not talked with Dennis lately do so check out some of the new thrust figures.


Johnny

Hello Johnny

Howzit from the islands. Yes I talked to Dennis, I agree impressive. My JDE 54's are running well. Im still tweeking.

I just bought a JMP F-4C and Im going to put 2 JDE-54's in it, so im trying to get both engines to have the same thrust.

As of last run

engine 1: 13.5 lbs @ 670 C too hot! hotspot on left side of ngv left half dull glow looking at tailpipe.

engine 2: 12 lbs @ 630 C ok! t wheel scraped after run need to grind

I have to open the tailpipe on the number one engine a little, perhaps a little more NGV clean up on # 2.

I'd like both engine to be around 12.5 Lbs and 630 C

Duke

JMP F-4C and 2 JDE-54’s!

Your de-man

Johnny

Johnny Jet,
You wnat to see imnpressive? have a look...

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...highlight=f+14

Andreww