I've just noticed on the Al's hobbies website that they are selling Wren turbines. Why would anyone buy from Ali when than can get it direct from Wren?


I am in two minds about this but I hope Wren are not diverging into the 'mass-market'.

I am glad that Wren are doing well and the increase in sales means that I am likely to obtain support for my engines for a long time.

However,

I do like the charm of dealing direct with the manufacturer and I hope they don't become too busy to deal with me. It is slightly annoying that I can't get a part for my engine and then I see this. Oh well, I guess that's business.


(EDIT: As an aside, Al's hobbies have P80's for £1350[X(])

Leavesley Aviation do 'em as well.
http://www.leavesleyaviation.com/

Since Wren do such a good job, I wonder what "value addition" these resellers can offer ?

Maybe Wren want to concentrate on manufacturing and R&D, and leave the retail side to someone else ?

Maybe Sara @ Wren could comment please.

Jules.

Darren

P80's for £1350 and P120's for £1800 will certainly do the second hand values of Jetcats no good at all. Could it be these turbines will soon be replaced with newer versions and this is a run-out sale?

John

John,

dont think its a run out sale. I think its more like JetCat are a bit unhappy about this new engine that Graupner are doing in place of theirs so they thought they would blow em out the water, well on price anyway.


jason

I was just checking the Inwood Models website to compare P80 prices (as they have had some good deals in the past) and guess what - THEY ARE NOW WREN DEALERS!!!

What is going on? I'll be able to buy these down my local pub soon

Wren are now selling ready-built engines through selected Jet dealers in the UK. Several of them, in particular Ali (Al's Hobbies) and Alan Cardash (Boomerang Jets), have asked a number of times over the last two or three years about selling Wren engines with their airframe kits, but until now we weren't making enough engines to be able to supply them. Those of you who have been following Wren's fortunes over the last few years will know that we lost our supplier of the most critical part, the turbine wheels, and that we had great difficulty finding another foundry who could cast them to the full Aerospace certification. Even when we had found a supplier, there were still issues of quality and quantity to be overcome. However, at last everything is resolved, we have plenty of wheels here and we can say with confidence that we can build and supply the engines.

We don't want to lose touch with the customers and will still supply any of our engines direct from the factory. The MW54 kits are only available from Wren - not dealers - because we believe that people who are building an engine kit should be able to talk to us without going through a third party.

We feel it is a compliment to our quality and integrity that the Jet dealers want to sell our engines. It has been very frustrating for us to see people selling our competitors' engines as "packages" with their kits, especially as the retailers had made it very clear that they would be equally happy to sell our engines as well, or even instead. We believe that the Wrens are the best small engines on the market - we were the pioneers in this area and have more experience than anyone else - and it pained us to realise that people were buying other small engines as part of a "package deal". Last year there was nothing we could do about it, but now we are able to respond. We hope it will increase our sales and we assure everyone that they will still get "Wren Service" even if the engine is bought through a dealer because we are only supplying through people we know and respect.

However, there will still be occasions when a particular part is out of stock .... sorry "siclick". I know you are waiting for a FOD screen as an upgrade for your 44. We underestimated the impact the FOD screens for the 44 would have, and so many people wanted them as upgrades on the existing 44s that we ran out more quickly than expected. There is a new batch - double the size of the first - in the machine shop and it has taken longer than usual to process them because the design has undergone some minor changes to make it even better. To everyone who is waiting for one, thank you for your patience.

Sara Parish
Wren Turbines

.. Hmm... i saw a plethora of wheels ..Oh a month back ..at Wrens .."Centre of excellence"... and did wonder what was in the pipeline...now we know ....Global Expansion.. & the demise of the Purple Pain...

Don't, they'll be counterfeit copies that weren't shifted on ebay !

I think the benefactors on this will be all of us!!!

The key thing for Wren is to retain their market share and indeed build upon it. Despite the fact that many jet dealers in the UK have been selling other products, most of them personally had Wren engines on their models too, which hints at their belief in Wren.

They are in business and if you can't buy what you want to sell, you will then buy the alternatives to turn over, as most of these companies are indeed dealers not manufacturers. In doing so in competing with their competitors means deals here and there, and the "whole package" deal thing has hitherto disadvantaged Wren. With dealerships established, then you might be able to shop around and get a deal on an engine but I am guessing it more likely the accesory that comes with it, the kit or something will be the discounted item, not the engine.

That should be good for long term economics, mores sales for Wren with less effort mean more time for them to continue with the customer satisfaction and increase of sales may either help Wren continue to stay in business on R&D or of course give them a better return and more profit, or even reduce the engine prices!!!

From the "honest John punter" perpsective then if you've got a package from Ali, or whoever, you would legitatmely be able to expedct more help in setting up and onging support.

So I can't see it being a downside but reflective of the way the market wants to behave. And in all of this, you still have the right to buy direct, and yet will still recieve the levels of post sale support that are the envy of the world.

Re the Jetcat scenario on basic economics my humble opinion is that they have oversupplied the market, perhaps because they had to have a bigger production run to keep the costs down, and now the dealers are encouraged to shift the metal, and only price is the difference in most cases. For 2nd hand prices, this is good, but for long term users, not so good as there is less point in buying new. This is kind of unusal too for German sales practices, usually their products are the ones not being offered on discount.

So for me, good move Wren, but if its an engine only, I will be going direct, and I still want my cake please Sara!!!!

Gazzer

i think a link between modelshops and manufacturers can only be a good thing if it means engine airframe prices at a slightly reduced rate.

Gazzer

Excellent post, clear, sensible and to the point. What has happened?

John

Am I Bovvered John?

Going on holiday to the land of Uncle Bob tomorrow has cleared my mind and I recalled your last post at my poor English and set to prove I may be worthy company!!!

Plus the fact this is about Wren, so its got to be right![8D]


Gazzer

You mean "Wright", right

Yeah but no but yeah but no but but......

Gazzer

I agree, but Wren's big selling point is their service. If this is compromised by rapid expansion then they become just A.N.Other turbine manufacturer. There are plenty of high quality turbines out there. Without top quality service what sets Wren apart from the competition? I am not necessarily saying service will be compromised, but it is of concern to me, as a Wren customer.

As an example, when I asked Sara about the FOD screen, I was told that they could not sell them as they were in danger of not being able to produce new engines (I got the impression that they did have some screens at the time, the fact that they are still producing 44 Gold's seems to confirm this). This is exactly what I am talking about. Rapid expansion meaning that priorities shift away from their core supporters.

Who will have priority over engines. An individual ordering direct or a dealer ordering 20 turbines?



I can see the positives. Al's hobbies has 5% off online purchases. Although I haven't tried this, it would appear that this also applies to the Wren engines, hence an immediate price reduction. Maybe Mark Leavesley or Inwood will price match or beat this.



If anyone has a FOD Screen starter for MW 44 that they don't want (or were about to order one without a FOD Screen) I am in the market for one. I can Part Ex a standard cover and wand starter.

Siclick,

You were absolutely right about the FOD screens - we did still have some on the shelf here but I couldn't sell any more as updates because they were needed for production engines. As I said earlier, we underestimated the demand from existing engine owners on this one. We had ordered a few more FOD screens than were needed for the production batch of 44s and were expecting to sell some of those as updates, but many people wanted them and there just weren't enough. It wasn't a problem of rapid expansion - just not realising how popular the product would be.

Please understand that we are not intending to become some sort of big, soul-less multinational company. We will still be friendly, hardworking and provide good service. We need as many sales as possible if we are to survive in this business, and I know you want us to stay in business to service your engines. The dealers we are using are all people who own and fly our engines and who we regard as our friends. They want us to be successful, as well as making some money for themselves.

Unlike many companies who make turbine engines we don't have a parent company which can prop up the jet business - we have to sell engines and make a profit if we are to survive in business and pay sensible wages to our loyal, skilled and hardworking staff. We know that the number of people who will come to us direct is not infinite, some people prefer to deal through a retailer, and we're trying to ensure we get those customers rather than our competitors.

We will try to deal fairly with everyone, as we always have done. Using the example you have just given, the individual order would be quicker to deal with and give more gross profit, the dealer one would take longer but have a higher value, and there are incentives to get both orders shipped as quickly as possible. We will do our best to keep everyone happy.

Sara Parish
Wren Turbines

That works out to around $2300 us

Jetcat Spain is selling P-80's for 1699 eros or $2082 us

Hi Darren,

Is this a price for a FULL P-80 and ALL the parts? Sounds a really good deal if it is.



Dave

Dave,
Its the full package including all the bits (ECU, Solenoids, Pump,
Tubing + Festos, Gas Tank etc etc)
The P80 is also the new version with a higher max RPM and 20lb
of thrust...

Volkan

Shok

Don't forget that the UK price of £1,350 includes VAT at 17.5%, this would not apply to export to the US so the price would be £1,150 or $1995
at $1.70 $ to the £1 plus any import duties to the US.

John

Yes, a heck of deal considering the cost of them here in the States.
Tommy

Hi
I also think that Jetcat are starting to feel the pressure from market forces. Wren now make an engine that competes head on with theJetcat P70/P80 and I know which one I would choose. Jetmunt are selling a turbine that by all accounts is as good if not better than the equivalent Jetcat at a considerably lower price. Simjet, Artes etc they are all now available in the UK and at very competitive prices. The Jet market is getting a tad crowded and I think Jetcat have maybe woken up and realised they cant cream as much profit off as they used to and still get the sales.
It bodes well for us the end user.
As regards Als selling the turbines it makes alot of sense for him to offer a package. ie A one stop shop for your turbine needs. I am sure Wren have chosen very carefully who they will let sell there turbines to ensure the back up is still there.

Anyway that is my two pence worth. I am now going to dive behind the sand bags for cover.

Mike

Jason wrote: <<I think its more like JetCat are a bit unhappy about this new engine that Graupner are doing in place of theirs so they thought they would blow em out the water, well on price anyway. >>

What new motor are you referring to??
V..

In Australia it's cheaper to buy a Wren through the local distributor than direct from the factory. This tells me that Wren supplies the engines to the distributor at enough discount to cover the distributor's costs, let him make some money on the sale & make it attractive for the customer to deal with the distributor for a local sale & support. This is the way it should work. When manufacturers start competing with their distributors on price with direct sales or distributors sell products at cost for whatever reason trouble starts to brew. The consumer WILL benefit, but for how long? No one benefits in the long run if everyone goes broke. - John.

I think we need to put this in perspective......

With 3 new dealers on the books Wren sales will increase but in real unit terms by how much??? How many turbines do these guys sell, one a day a week a month???

The reality is it is still a small specialist market place, all Wren are doing I believe is ensuring they have as good a chance as the rest, which means others will lose out and Wren will increase but its not hundreds and thousands, well not yet anyway!

You could argue that the 3 names mentioned here as new dealers are wordlwide exponents and thus customer service will be increased as more people have an incentive and reason to support the products they are selling, placing the emphasis of support closer to the deliver point, in other words, there will be no detriment to the legendary Wren service. I would also be unsurprised to see Motors and Rotors under Dave Wilshere to adopt an agency too.

Should it grow, there will be a point when Wren will want to afford additional staff members to keep the customer satisfaction at its enviable level, and they will have the dosh to do it.

I don't beleive you should unduly worry Siclick but you are making good and interesting debatable points, I would say history is a good omen here and Wren have had issues but have overcome them with the vast and almost total majority of their client base being supportive.

But taking the passion for the hobby to the next level, they need to ensure they can survive and thrive, and the way to that is more unit sales, and adopting dealers is one way. Interestingly though I did not see a huge fanfare and announcement, in fact if it were not for Siclick I would not even have noticed!!

Gazzer