Well...I would agree that I DO have truly higher thinking, but that's another story!
The rest of it, I'd HARDLY say that black people have a monopoly on letting news blips control them and having nary an original thought in their heads. I know for SURE that that's CERTAINLY not a racial charachteristic, as for every black idiot I know, I know at least a dozen WHITE ones.
I would NEVER blame anybody for taking advantage of any govenment program they can, even if it IS a race-based one. Just take advantage of it, be successful in business, become bigger than Exxon-Mobil, and then you can appoint a president and make your own rules! That's the endgame.
By the way, the "disadvantaged" businessman I was talking about? He's a honky, same as me. And he's wealthy. But he found and advantage, a loophole to exploit, and he did. Same as any other half-smart businessman did.
I don't want this to drift off into a discussion of racism and affirmative action...I would never have mentioned what you did, if I had know anything about it. Your mentioning it, and your post above, well, they sound pretty racist to me, I don't want to talk any more about it.

Back to dud engines!

Ben and Lewis,
Hopefully nothing I said in my post was interpreted as a racist statement, it was not meant to be that way in any fashion.
Tommy

et

HOW IN THE WORLD DID YOU GET THIS

>>>>I'd HARDLY say that black people have a monopoly on letting news blips control them and having nary an original thought in their heads

FROM THIS

>>>congrats...you have .....truely higher thinking........so many others are sleeping when it comes to reality....they let the news blips control them and nary an original thought ever developes in their heads

WHEN MY COMMENT WAS BASED ON YOUR COMMENT

>>>>I know one pretty rich guy here on RCU who gets government contacts on the basis of his company being a "disadvantaged small business", but he does not seem so disadvantaged that he cannot afford ten turbines and whatever toys he wants...if he can take advantage of whatever programs the gubmint offers, be they fair or unfair, well...more power to him.

THIS HAS GOTTEN WAY OFF TARGET AND POINT...SO HERE IS THE EXACT QUOTE....THINK ABOUT IT

>>>>afirmative action might get them in the door.....but will it keep them there???????....a modern..... to be or not to be!!!!


FYI

since some went to the race card ...here you go....last year

last year i negotiated a 325 million dollar initial contract with the united states government WHICH IF ALL GOES RIGHT WILL TURN INTO A MULTI BILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT....it involved the most revolutionary technology developed since the automobile ....none of you ( including myself ) can ever imagine what it took to get there but after bumping around washington for about 3 months i figured it out....i had to play the race card....and took on a minority partner...........and in the fookin door we went.......boom

and the first thing that was said to me in washington was " affirmative action got you in the door but it wont keep you here ....now what do you have to show us "....and we blew their minds......well off the charts with the most powerful technology since ford invented the car

bottomline............this whole thing has really been blown way off target.....all from

this


>>>>>>>afirmative action might get them in the door.....but will it keep them there???????....a modern..... to be or not to be!!!!


im out....

Hey, if I misinterpreted what you said, I apologize. I know how it sounded to me.

Anyway, moving on.

Closing this one as this type of junk has no place in the Jet Forum.



Tommy

I do not have any problems with your post my friend.

OK, this thread deviated a little off tangent that resulted in my locking it down. I just spent few minutes doing a major house keeping on it and will reopen it to allow those with AMT problems to state their findings after getting their engines back from repair.

Regards

Ben

Ben

thanks for opening her back up. I've been mulling over what I wanted to say since the thread began.

I think Ray is doing a great job conveying the thoughts of AMT USA and their desire to push forward with a quality product and I support his and the company's efforts.

I have a 400 that recently quit in-flight and due to aircraft location and energy state, I was unable to safely return my bird to the runway. Damage was extensive enough to the main structure of the bird that cost to replace the damaged flight surfaces and fuselage will out pace the cost of a new airframe only.

Of note, this was the third flameout experienced by this engine. The two previous occassions the engine was mounted on a kingcat and I was lucky enough to bring the bird home safely.

The first failure occured after aproximately 70 flights (bearing seizure, I think the failure was due to a blockage of the lube line caused by flaking solder on lube / feed line this occurred in the fall of 04) it was repaired by WV, reinstalled and taken to Fresno jets same year.

It failed a second time roughly 5 minutes into the flight on the first day!!!!! arrgh (bearing failure again, this time with an audible screech as she was revved up for a nice big loop) once again, pulled a JAG at the top of the loop then brought her around and safely landed the bird. (failure was caused by incorrect pre-load on the bearing spacer) Fixed in WV and since Sept 04 I had in excess of 45 flights until the most recent failure.

Woj and I have e-mailed back and forth a couple of times regarding the 400, as well as a few other buddies with 400s.

when the engine returns from the Cincy factory, I will be teaming up with Ray Davis to verify the performance on the engine after repairs and he or I will report our findings. Engine stand evaluation etc.

In retrospect, I should've sent in my engine for review / replacement / upgrade whatever prior to this flying season but....it's hard to fix what you think aint broken. after 45 flights I pretty much thought I had my old faithful flying lung again, hindsight is 20/15 though

Lastly, I've been a satisfied customer since 98 and have flown the entire engine line in addition to engines from JetCat and Wren.

I hope we can sort things out soon and I highly encourage these guys to refine and refield this quality engine. So, with any luck over the next couple of months we'll do just that or they'll willingly remove it from inventory until it is fixed.

There's nothing like watching a kingcat float by in High AOA flight and then power out straight up doing aileron rolls. As a matter of fact, it was my favorite maneuver in the King.... next to landing.

cheers

buck

ET, now that really helps. They are not 'copies' at all: Except for the 400, they are Netherland's original designs w/ obvious refinements on both sides the ocean throughout the years. So what?

Here's what I know about it: Benny and Han formed AMT Netherlands in the early ninties, were looking for a US distributor, maybe '96, '97. Tom Cook became that distributor. And, I bought the last Netherland's Peagasus he had around the same time Bennie/Han formed a sister company, AMT USA, to produce engines over here. Unfortunately....certainly in retrospect(!).....that precluded TC at the time, as big start-up money was needed, etc. Somehow Jim Weigel came into the picture, and indeed, put quite a factory together in Williamstown, WV. Han was the US part of the team....engines/parts/ECUs, etc., produced in both places, interchanged, etc.

Han/Benny had a falling out several years ago after a life-long friendship. A shame...I don't know why; I don't know the particulars/it doesn't matter for this discussion. Whatever...the split agreement required a name change for Han's/Jim's USA end of things along w/ name changes for the product line (Mercury became the AT180, etc.). Both entities went merrily their respective ways, Netherlands would not formally sell engines in the USA, etc.

The 400, OTOH, was designed by Ewald Schulster(sp) when he was employed briefly by USA when Han was having protracted difficulties extending his travels/stays in the US. Ewald left...only Han could work w/ Jim at that level, I guess....Jim pumped out 400s.....sold the company to Cinncy (USA AMT is financed/part of another group...I'm reallly guessing here...), Han and Rodney went to Cinncy. We know the rest: The 400 was not fully developed, though many were sold, and many had problems. Again: Cinncy itself has built ten 400s, no problems at all, and repaired 13 others manufactured in WV. Two of those WV engines have, indeed, been problematic and are haunting Cinncy, and their owners(!), being returned twice.

So: Seems to me, ET's 'Unlicensed copy' comment contributes nothing to this discussion....though piling on w/ mis-info does...if that's simply how folks are amused. Let's see if Cinncy can resolve the remaining 400 problems....comments re the actual merits of that effort should be plenty enough !

Ray

time to update this threadd .....


Bottom line, AMTUSA has only proven themselves even more inept than ever !! I think its pathetic that after having my engine several times they just now figure they FORGOT to set a preheat tube !! how can I trust an engine or more so a manufacturer that can’t even understand their own product ? fact is AT400s continue to quit and seize !! My gripe is not at this point over the $300, but more like over the almost $5K I have in this engine !!! John Ligons is a LIAR and after being lied to, and then him trying to pull the wool over my eyes, i have no respect left for him, and the rest of AMT USA. I have not heard back from John nor any other AMT employee about my AT400. I have made requests to AMT USA for a buy back, or some sort of response at least .. I got NOTHING !! as far as I’m concerned, my at400 has been stolen by AMT USA. I have informed AMT of the consequences to their actions, and now my patience and understanding has RAN OUT ! I am filing a police report in OH for starters, followed by reports to the BBB and FTC, and am already in the works of filing a suit for the cost of my engine, repair costs, time lost, and legal fees. Enough is enough !

I suggest that anyone thinking of an AMT USA product think again and look elsewhere !! they do not have the capability of delivering a functional and reliable product ! problems from WV have just been carried over and magnified. The same inept technical staff is still in place, and there is no one at AMT USA left with any true engineering know how so as to put out a well functioning product. I have thus far, and will continue to warn as many possible as I can to STAY AWAY FROM AMT USA !!!

If AMT USA decides to buy back my at400 for the $4500 I bought it for and return the additional $300 I spent on repairs, I will go away, and leave this behind me .. till then, I’m not going away !!


Wojtek

how about BUYING them back and making the problem go away ??

Last time my engine was repaired , John told me it was a complete rebuild with ALL NEW parts, except for the engine case. I know that was a LIE because it came back with the same turbine wheel and compressor at the very least ( had picture documentation of the originals ) … problems continued … STOP the LIES, step up and buy my POS AT400 back ! just cut a check, and your nightmare as well as mine are over … unless you feel like showing up in court in NJ .. ( that will alone cost you more then just buying the engine back ) Under UCC law, I will win, and you will pay, so why make it harder on yourselves ??


By the way, Ray … I appreciate your efforts in mediating this situation, but it is wrong of AMT USA to be stuffing you in this position and not responding themselves .. I guess Ligons and Gerbus have absolutely no backbone left

Also, Buck, sorry about your loss due to a at400 failing … I have since been running the p180 which is the same size, and has 5 extra lbs of thrust .. it ( as well as over 10 other of my JetCats) has been flawless !!

reading this thread make me feel very happy with my Jet Joe Chine made engine

Well, looks like it actually took going here on RCU again to actually get John to respond, and I finally got some kind of email back from AMTUSA. I guess the other email and voice messages I had left were not good enough to respond to.. so I figure lets continue the communication here, as you seem to better respond if done in such a way ....

Email from AMT USA
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: jligons [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:47 PM
To: Wojtek Iwanczyk (CTGI)
Subject:


Wojtek,
I will repeat one more time. If you want to talk to me call me.
I will not give in to your demands no matter how much you lie, rant and rave on RCU.
I will send you your engine in good repair. That is all that is going to happen. For any
refund you will have to contact Jim Wiegle, remember the man you purchased the engine from.

John Ligons
AMT-USA

---------------------------------------------------------------

First , let me address John's email:

John, I did call, even though I would not rather speak with someone who blatantly lies to my face over and over again. After not getting anyone several times I left VMs. I had also emailed you several times. As for the "rants. Lies and raving" .. hmmm I guess I'm making up that my at400 keeps dying on me, and that thus far AMT USA has been unable to fix it ... I have a right to be upset, and the public has the need to know of what a sham of an operation AMT USA is .. I am just sharing my personal experiences here on line for all to see. Nice to see you continuing to take care of a customer in such a wonderful way ... speaking of lies, I'll get to YOURS in a bit ... How can you claim to have the capability of sending my engine back in good repair ? you tried several times and FAILED. The last time I understand your tech "forgot" to install a part critical to the engines operation .. and you expect me to trust an engine back from you ?? the only way I would trust and engine from you is if you warranty not only the engine , but also the plane it will be going in. You have a track record, and it is one of FAILURE. As for refunds, I would have had no issue not going after you, but this no longer was the case after I was initially assured that the new AMT USA in OH would provide a smooth and seamless support transition, including handling all warranty liabilities. This was obviously not the case. You already had the engine in the possession and care of AMT US in OH several times, and have managed to continue screwing it up .. you are now liable due to your malpractice, as well as your claims.. The games being played here are ridiculous. No business sense from AMT USA's part, and more so absolutely no ethics whatsoever .. so as to make sure we are all in the clear as to what has transpired here, lets follow up with a quick chronological diary of my woes with AMT USA.

- My at400 had already had numerous seizures and physical failures while dealing with AMT back in WV. Every time it came back, it failed yet again.

- I found out that AMT USA was being sold, and would be moving to OH. I had the at400 in my possession at this time, and as usual, it was seized up sounding like a baby rattle with junk clanking around everywhere after the last flight. I was told by AMT techs that it would be best for me to hold on to the engine until they moved to OH. So I waited.

- when the sale was official, I spoke to John Ligons who at the time was excited about the changes at AMT and new revolutionary products they would be coming out with ( I guess that would mean engines that actually ran ? ) I was assured my engine would be taken care of UNDER WARRANTY, and in fact John went on to tell me how the new AMT would be extending warranties on all AMT engines out in service as they felt so confident in how solid these were .Bottom line, I was assured that all was going to be handled under WARRANTY !! I was also told that AMT Netherlands was being called upon to review and resolve the issues with the at400s (this turned out to be a total lie too ) We ended the conversation with me being told to wait a couple of months for AMT to situate itself in OH.

- few moths later, I am told I can send the engine in.

- a few more months go by and I still have no engine. After calling I am told AMT first has to catch up with other stuff and I am told to wait yet again ....

- I get a call from AMT finally that my engine is fixed. I am also told that there is a $600+ bill on the repairs !!! what happened to the PROMISSED WARRANTY and seamless support transition ?? All I get is excuses on how AMT is there to make $, and not provide free support .. one of the items AMT claims needed replacing was the combustion chamber, as the old on was rotted away .. I know that was a lie in itself right there as the engine had only been flown 20 or so times at that time, and the combustion chamber in fact had been upgraded to an BRAND NEW iconel one only a few runs back ( in between seizures ) sounds to me like someone was trying to pull more wool over my eyes here also .... I ended up agreeing to paying 1/2 of the repair cost AMT was requesting after negotiation with Tim Gerbus ( who has since I believe left any operational involvement with AMT ) This was supposed to be done under WARRANTY !! I was lied to and manipulated !!

- so I mount the AT400 back on my KingCat and figure finally I can get some flying done .... 1st flight .... it seized up !! again I had a very narrow save, and glided the plane in. The engine was seized up !! it was physically stuck with me unable to freely turn the shaft. It would turn like 5 deg back and fort and was met with a clanking opposition. The shaft actually freed up after some playing with it, and the engine did turn over, but there was still clanking in the engine. There are several people that were there and can attest to this !! ( there is a reason I am bringing the witnesses up here ..... )

- I send the engine back to AMT. John claims to me on the phone they found NOTHING WRONG with the engine !!! huuuhh ?? sounds like more BS lies to me !! so now I am promised by John that AMT will COMPLETELY rebuild my entire engine from NEW PARTS .. all except the outer case, John actually said "you are actually getting a whole new engine built except for the outer case".. ok, whatever .. just get me a working engine ...

- I get the engine back ( which was supposed to have been completely rebuilt) after AMT claims they ran it for a long time on their bench without a problem. First off, the turbine compressor and turbine wheel are still the same as my original ones ... another lie from John. The engine was obviously not rebuilt as he stated ( or rather lied )

- my thought now is that no way AMT would be dumb enough to send me back a flawed engine AGAIN ... so back it goes on my KingCat ...

- I run the engine, and its not running right. It tries to quit near idle, and seems to be choking as if running down too lean, and is blowing dark puffs of smoke ... I was itching to fly really badly, so I decided to shallow out my throttle curve around idle just to be careful, and took off ... 2 min into the flight, its dead with a dark puff out the back ... I was ready for this so I glided in .. at least this time the engine was not physically seized up ..

- now AMT and their reps online start claiming that its probably the ECU or pump causing the issue, and as one claims they saw my engine run 100% fine at AMT on a test bench ( which is a LIE also, and I will get to that) ... since I had not sent my ecu/pump in last time to AMT, I figure its possible that maybe this time the engine is good, and the ECU needs to be tuned to the engine or something ... whatever ...

- at Florida jets, I drop the engine off with AMT at their booth.

- It is now months later that one of the AMT reps ( Ray Davis) claims that AMT found out that they FORGOT to install, set up properly,( whatever ) the preheat tube, and that was causing the engine to lean out going to idle .... WHAT ?? FORGOT ?? what an inept incompetent team AMT USA has !! also, this makes the claim that the engine ran on the bench 100% a LIE !!! without the preheat tube, it would have ran like crap no matter on what bench, ECU, pump , electronics, etc it was running on ... so now we have LIES from John, as well as some of the reps. ( I am not referencing Ray here, but other reps an affiliates. I truly respect Ray's efforts to do what's right here. He has tried to mediate in a very professional way, and for a while was the only communication I had between me and AMT USA. Unfortunate to Ray, he is dealing with AMT USA who is run by LIARS like John Ligons)

- I left emails and voicemail to John. Never heard back till now that I put up another post on RCU. At this point, I do not trust AMTs engines as they have proven themselves completely incompetent, and dishonest. I expect AMT to buy my engine back. Since they have refused to do this, I will get my loses back in court. I also intend to charge AMT for my lost time and all the testing and research I provided to them while being experimented on in my King Cat ... AMT should learn to test bad resigns, and even worse experience on their own planes and time ...

I do not expect any communication back from AMT USA at this juncture.

For all those looking to buy AMT USA engines, STAY AWAY !! if you have a problem with your engine, you might be referenced as " ranting raving liars" .. that’s the kind of service you get from AMT USA ...

Won't get back involved with this, except to say Ray Davis has tried really, really hard to be a good guy through all this. Any company should be thrilled to get a guy like him for a rep. Wish his efforts had a more positive end result, but I think he deserves credit for really trying to work it out. Best of luck to all.

ET, I could not agree more ...

Ray, you truly are an asset and if I have not done so in the past, I do want to thank you for your efforts .. At this point its strictly up to John Ligons and AMT USA to do what is right ...

Woj,

As an owner of 2 AMT USA turbines, I have to say you make a very very compelling argument. I have not needed service on my engines yet, however when I do, it would make me think long and hard about sending it to OH for repair. I will say I bought my 2 engines used and so far they have performed well.

It really seems that AMT USA OH has just missed the boat on this one. From a business standpoint I simply for the life of me can't understand their logic. One one hand I feel for AMT USA buying into a crappy situation, but not making it right is unexcusable from a business sense point of view.

Mike---I hear ya!!! I have two engines also---But my smaller engine is a Netherlands model.

I also don't like to get ripped off on parts---I called AMT for a replacement thermocouple....The cost was 85 bucks!!! A thermocouple for a JetCat turbine is $33...I can buy K-Type thermocouples all day long a McMaster-Carr for only slightly less than a JetCat thermocouple.

Kevin

well, got another email from John Ligons ... here it is as well as my reply ... this is getting ridiculous. Definately not the kind of service you would expect from a reputable and honest turbine manufacturer !!!


---------------------------------------------------


So tell me John .. what makes me an "idiot" as you put it ? am I an idiot for not swallowing your lies ? or maybe for expecting the product and service I was promised ? I'd question who the idiot here truly is. I have not insulted you at all actually. I laid out the FACTS plain and clear, and maybe made a few observations along the way ( such as pointing you out to be a liar for instance)... so you are refusing to do what is right as a matter or principal ? some business ethnic there. I operate a business of my own, dealing with clients both small as well as those quite immense in size .. As a fellow businessman I can tell you that based on your actions with AMT USA that I do not in one bit emphasize with you, nor any of your associates at AMT USA in view of the problems you have faced in conjunction with the acquisition of the company from Jim in WV. If you had from day one at least tried to do what is right, I would have had much respect for you. I bought the engine from AMT USA. You bought AMT USA and made claims and promised of service, and delivery of functional product. You have not delivered either, and action is being taken. I bought the engine from AMT USA, and I will get my $ back FROM AMT USA as well .. no more of these " oh we only bought the assets " BS excuses ... I guess relocating employees and maintaining the same web site and name for MONTHS was just part of an asset purchase as well ?? I think the courts will find your stand in a far different light. You are in fact 100% responsible. You are AMT USA, and AMT USA makes the AT400 .. not only can you not fix the engines, you seem to also break them as well ( like FORGETING parts, and such ) As far as I have experienced, you do not have the capability of delivering a functional engine, and I do not trust you to do so in the future.. Your track record speaks for itself. By the way, you still to this day have not made a single indication on the situation of my engine. Funny how it was after all on this forum ( which you criticize ME for using ) that your reps provided me information on what the deal with the engine was this time around ... I bet if not for others on this forum who have also shared their experiences of failed at400s, you would have DENIED those case to my face as well. I already informed you of how you are being proceeded with AMT USA. I hope you enjoy visiting NJ sometime in the near future. I am holding you individually liable here as well as the collective liability of AMT USA as a whole.


Best regards,


Wojtek Iwanczyk



-----Original Message-----
From: jligons [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 1:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re:

Wojtek,
I will not respond to your insults. I will also not deal with you on a public forum. I will
only deal with you person to person. Do what you think you must but I beleive that most
will see the idiot you are. For me it is a matter of principle now. We did not sell you the
engine or receive any money from the purchase of it. We have and will always try to assist
you but will not give you money we did not receive. All you have accomplished is try to
hold us responsible for something we did not do. Your actions are your desperate attempt to
get us to take responsibility for Jim Wigles actions. I assure you this will not happen.
This is all I have to say.

John Ligons
AMT-USA

Mike, i did also own a at180 for some time. It was an engine from 1995 with many hours on it, and was an older air start model. This was one of the best 20 lbs class engines i have ever ran. The spool up time was great, and it ran like a Swiss watch ! I did end up selling the engine as i don't use engines under 27lbs throes any more these days ... my at180 was VERY nice. These days there are several locations besides AMT USA where you can get an AMT engine serviced ( not sure on the at400s however ) ... I know Carlos from RTI has the capability of servicing these, and better yet, so does AMT Netherlands ( I would contact Tom Cook from jet model products on that one .. )



regards,


Wojtek

After reading all these, I'm not sure how AMT USA expect to sell a single engine to anybody...[sm=confused.gif]

Well guess there are people not lucky enough to have access to RCU

Can this thread be merged with the other one about it?

Hmmm.. I've been quietly following this (and other) AT400 threads for the last year. FWIW, I have one of the first (#5 shipped, I think) WV AT400's and it suffered a low throttle flameout on the first flight, for unknown reasons per ECU data (but not a bubble in the fuel system). Seriously damaged my new KingCat in the subsequent off-field landing. I have not flown a jet since, for various reasons (2005 was not a good jet year for me).

I'm gonna call John tomorrow to get mine updated. One more chance to see if the problems are resolved. The 400 is awesome, but you gotta have confidence (i.e. reliability in the product and company ) to enjoy flying your $10K toy - not a lot of fun flying high and close in (at a field with a 200' max altitude restriction) while worrying about your next dead-stick.

dbarrym ,

very well put, the at400 is a awesome engine ! great on the king cat, but that’s only if it runs .. I for one lost at a few too many games of Russian roulette with this one []

wow, more and more people with AMT USA problems ... maybe we should all donate our engines to some bar to be converted to beer mugs like Eddie Weeks did with his


Wojtek

I heard that beer mug still leaks after three trips back to the factory...

Now, now boys.... Candidly, I am still an AMTUSA rep, but I'm gonna take that hat off for a moment. Only me speaking here:

Woj..from what I know of this whole fiasco...and it is...I believe you are substantially correct in your chronology and description of events above.....exceptions being I've no knowledge of your private communications w/ John/USA, how much your engine was actually re-built, etc. As a fellow pilot, I regret and am most sorry for the inconvenience, expense, and troubles your engine has caused you; as an AMT400 owner I know your frustration. (Mine was returned once to WV, again to Cinncy....runs fine now....though w/ only eight flights to date, maybe 20 runs and 1.5 hours, total. Here's hoping!). Further, I have privately been USA's greatest critic since last fall, real dutch uncle stuff, getting John to recognize/resolve problems, helping them to see things from a customer perspective, etc. (Yeah, to a few, some of that effort might appear wasted.... ) But, despite USA's poor record dealing w/ Woj and his engne, I still think they are moving overall in a good direction and have a plan and reasonable chance to regain their reputation. Remember, of twenty-three 400s they have touched, only Woj' and one other have been problematic. Their 180s, 280s, and 450s remain top-notch. So, all of us need to recognize there's unlikely an actual systematic/structural problem remaining at USA, but rather, this very narrow, specific, and solvable one. And, if not resolved by a successful engine repair this time, then certainly by an improved policy.

Presently, we have an impass: John dug in and adamant; Woj seeking legal redress. Both stances hurting both parties...and for some time to come. And, I think, needlesly. Here's a possible way out, a proposal to Woj and John/USA (new to him here, too): Since USA claims the engine is now in perfect order, Woj agrees to have it sent to him along w/ a check for his $300. Test it, run it, fly it. Install it w/ a proper fuel system, use properly lubed fuel, keep it FOD-free...do all the normally required owner stuff. Fly the ***** out of it....but Woj gives it the benefit of doubt and a real fighting chance. If there is a proven/documented problem within six months, then three stikes and USA is out.....John agrees to accept it's return and refunds Woj' WV purchase price. End of story: Woj no longer has need to take potshots at USA, USA can move on. The engine is a lemon and banished. What-the-hell, it happens. Now, that's the unhappy ending.....but quite possibly there will be a happier one...and Woj reporting all is well many seasons to come.

Risky for both parties? I don't think so. The greater risk, expense, and loss, I'd guess, is perpetuating things as they are. So: What say to that, guys?

Ray

Can I give another perspective, and another idea? Or would it just be me making further trouble? That's a sincere question, if nobody wants to hear, it's fine by me, I don't want to just be seen as someone continually bashing AMT, and I don't have a horse in this race, and if somebody said they had heard enough from ME on this matter, there would be not much I could say to argue!