Epoxy Mold Making
11-01-2006 | 04:43 AM
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From: VereenigingGauteng, SOUTH AFRICA
Epoxy Mold Making
Can any body help me the the correct amount, and weight of glass cloth to be put down when making a mold.
First you put down about 0.5mm of Gell Coat.
Second you fill all the cunder cuts and sharp corners with Epoxy / Cotton Flox.
Third .... Howmany layers of what???
Do you do it all at once, or do you do it in increments?
Thanks for the help
Dale
First you put down about 0.5mm of Gell Coat.
Second you fill all the cunder cuts and sharp corners with Epoxy / Cotton Flox.
Third .... Howmany layers of what???
Do you do it all at once, or do you do it in increments?
Thanks for the help
Dale
11-01-2006 | 05:23 AM
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From: Fort Wayne, IN
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
At work we use 2 layers of 6 oz followed with 2 to 4 layers of 10 oz. lay up all as soon as the surface coat is tacky. On my hobby molds I use just 2 and 2 for a total of 4 layers. Works for me.
See my web site under the Back corner for a picture tutorial
See my web site under the Back corner for a picture tutorial
11-01-2006 | 05:55 AM
#3
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RE: Epoxy Mold Making
ORIGINAL: Terry Holston
At work we use 2 layers of 6 oz followed with 2 to 4 layers of 10 oz. lay up all as soon as the surface coat is tacky. On my hobby molds I use just 2 and 2 for a total of 4 layers. Works for me.
See my web site under the Back corner for a picture tutorial
At work we use 2 layers of 6 oz followed with 2 to 4 layers of 10 oz. lay up all as soon as the surface coat is tacky. On my hobby molds I use just 2 and 2 for a total of 4 layers. Works for me.
See my web site under the Back corner for a picture tutorial
11-01-2006 | 10:36 AM
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From: Sailing in the Eastern Caribbean
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
There is no simple 'right' answer to this.
A mould that must be stable and rigid eg. a wing will need more layup and external bracing than a canopy.
Moulds that SPLIT will need planning and usually benefit from the incorporation of a frame.
For a 40 inch long fuselage I used a 2" angle iron frame with welded corners on both sides with dowel bolts to ensure alignment and kept adding glasscloth till it was about 1/4 inch thick.
Here is a guide to producing a simple cowl mould. http://www.fibretechgb.co.uk/TipGlsFbrMld.htm
If you want to do something more complex a good library should provide a book The Glass-fibre Handbook by R. H Warring is a good starter.
A mould that must be stable and rigid eg. a wing will need more layup and external bracing than a canopy.
Moulds that SPLIT will need planning and usually benefit from the incorporation of a frame.
For a 40 inch long fuselage I used a 2" angle iron frame with welded corners on both sides with dowel bolts to ensure alignment and kept adding glasscloth till it was about 1/4 inch thick.
Here is a guide to producing a simple cowl mould. http://www.fibretechgb.co.uk/TipGlsFbrMld.htm
If you want to do something more complex a good library should provide a book The Glass-fibre Handbook by R. H Warring is a good starter.
11-01-2006 | 01:51 PM
#6
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
Or if you read German, the very jet-related book from Manfred Eberhard.
http://www.modellsport.de/shop/shopf...7477&showcat=1
R&G has some excellent tutorials on their site: http://www.r-g.de/downloads.html
Regards
Lars
http://www.modellsport.de/shop/shopf...7477&showcat=1
R&G has some excellent tutorials on their site: http://www.r-g.de/downloads.html
Regards
Lars
11-02-2006 | 01:59 AM
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From: VereenigingGauteng, SOUTH AFRICA
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
Thanks for all the help.
I like the idear of putting a frame into the mold for stability.
You also confirm my thoughts of about 4 layers for small parts and building up to about 1/4" or 6mm for fuselage and wing molds.
Thanks again.
I like the idear of putting a frame into the mold for stability.
You also confirm my thoughts of about 4 layers for small parts and building up to about 1/4" or 6mm for fuselage and wing molds.
Thanks again.
11-20-2006 | 09:26 AM
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From: VereenigingGauteng, SOUTH AFRICA
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
New Question !!!
If I have a part that has a hatch or panel with maybe a hinge and a catch or latch for opening the panel, how would I make the detail on the plug?
If the panel is raised then I could stick a piece of litho plate on to the plug. But if the panel is flush and has an odd shape then how can a person construct the outline. Using a thin strip of tape would be difficult to get the correct outline?
If the release catches are flush, how can one create these?
Any ideas !
Thanks.
Dale
If I have a part that has a hatch or panel with maybe a hinge and a catch or latch for opening the panel, how would I make the detail on the plug?
If the panel is raised then I could stick a piece of litho plate on to the plug. But if the panel is flush and has an odd shape then how can a person construct the outline. Using a thin strip of tape would be difficult to get the correct outline?
If the release catches are flush, how can one create these?
Any ideas !
Thanks.
Dale
11-20-2006 | 10:02 AM
#9
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
Really professional plugs are completely covered in lithoplate. So when wanting flush details, these are simply cut in the same thickness as the rest of the plates. Raised panels are simply thicker plates....
If you just want the lines then these can be scratched into the surface using a small sawblade or even a dull x-acto knife blade.
Best regards
Hank
If you just want the lines then these can be scratched into the surface using a small sawblade or even a dull x-acto knife blade.
Best regards
Hank
11-20-2006 | 11:23 AM
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From: Longwood ,
FL
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
Here's a quickly read tutorial from one of the top fiberglass/resin distributors.
Read the 6 page tutorial, and learn to speak the language of the trade, so you can purchase what you really want.
http://www.fiberglast.com/learning_c...fibergalss.pdf
miniflyer,
Some people might use lithoplate, but in my 38 year career in aerospace manufacturing as a tooling and manufacturing engineer (Teledyne Ryan/Northrop Grumman on such projects as the B-2 Stealth Bomber, Global Hawk, C-17, etc. dating back to 1967), I've never seen lithoplate used on the surface of a tool (MOLD) . Many are machined from steel, and/or aluminum, and some are even flash nickle plated after machining and hand finishing. A great many are pulled as a splash on the surface of a plaster master model using epoxy face coat, and laminating resin.
Many of these tools are inspected with CMM and Theodolite measuring systems down to the .0001 of an inch. (ten-thousandth of an inch). I think that these tools are "pretty professional', and very precision........as opposed to most of the molds used in the RC model industry.
I'll try to scan and post some photos of C-17 landing gear masters, C-17 aft fuselage FAJ (floor assembly jig) and from some of the the B-2 laminating/curing fixtures if anyone is interested.
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
Read the 6 page tutorial, and learn to speak the language of the trade, so you can purchase what you really want.
http://www.fiberglast.com/learning_c...fibergalss.pdf
miniflyer,
Some people might use lithoplate, but in my 38 year career in aerospace manufacturing as a tooling and manufacturing engineer (Teledyne Ryan/Northrop Grumman on such projects as the B-2 Stealth Bomber, Global Hawk, C-17, etc. dating back to 1967), I've never seen lithoplate used on the surface of a tool (MOLD) . Many are machined from steel, and/or aluminum, and some are even flash nickle plated after machining and hand finishing. A great many are pulled as a splash on the surface of a plaster master model using epoxy face coat, and laminating resin.
Many of these tools are inspected with CMM and Theodolite measuring systems down to the .0001 of an inch. (ten-thousandth of an inch). I think that these tools are "pretty professional', and very precision........as opposed to most of the molds used in the RC model industry.
I'll try to scan and post some photos of C-17 landing gear masters, C-17 aft fuselage FAJ (floor assembly jig) and from some of the the B-2 laminating/curing fixtures if anyone is interested.
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
11-20-2006 | 02:33 PM
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From: Chicago, IL
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
JetNoise,
Have you checked the Composite Fabrication andRepair section on RCU. There are numerous threads on mold and part fabrication.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_97/tt.htm
Have you checked the Composite Fabrication andRepair section on RCU. There are numerous threads on mold and part fabrication.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_97/tt.htm
11-20-2006 | 03:15 PM
#12
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
ORIGINAL: Harley Condra
Here's a quickly read tutorial from one of the top fiberglass/resin distributors.
Read the 6 page tutorial, and learn to speak the language of the trade, so you can purchase what you really want.
http://www.fiberglast.com/learning_c...fibergalss.pdf
miniflyer,
Some people might use lithoplate, but in my 38 year career in aerospace manufacturing as a tooling and manufacturing engineer (Teledyne Ryan/Northrop Grumman on such projects as the B-2 Stealth Bomber, Global Hawk, C-17, etc. dating back to 1967), I've never seen lithoplate used on the surface of a tool (MOLD) . Many are machined from steel, and/or aluminum, and some are even flash nickle plated after machining and hand finishing. A great many are pulled as a splash on the surface of a plaster master model using epoxy face coat, and laminating resin.
Many of these tools are inspected with CMM and Theodolite measuring systems down to the .0001 of an inch. (ten-thousandth of an inch). I think that these tools are "pretty professional', and very precision........as opposed to most of the molds used in the RC model industry.
I'll try to scan and post some photos of C-17 landing gear masters, C-17 aft fuselage FAJ (floor assembly jig) and from some of the the B-2 laminating/curing fixtures if anyone is interested.
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
Here's a quickly read tutorial from one of the top fiberglass/resin distributors.
Read the 6 page tutorial, and learn to speak the language of the trade, so you can purchase what you really want.
http://www.fiberglast.com/learning_c...fibergalss.pdf
miniflyer,
Some people might use lithoplate, but in my 38 year career in aerospace manufacturing as a tooling and manufacturing engineer (Teledyne Ryan/Northrop Grumman on such projects as the B-2 Stealth Bomber, Global Hawk, C-17, etc. dating back to 1967), I've never seen lithoplate used on the surface of a tool (MOLD) . Many are machined from steel, and/or aluminum, and some are even flash nickle plated after machining and hand finishing. A great many are pulled as a splash on the surface of a plaster master model using epoxy face coat, and laminating resin.
Many of these tools are inspected with CMM and Theodolite measuring systems down to the .0001 of an inch. (ten-thousandth of an inch). I think that these tools are "pretty professional', and very precision........as opposed to most of the molds used in the RC model industry.
I'll try to scan and post some photos of C-17 landing gear masters, C-17 aft fuselage FAJ (floor assembly jig) and from some of the the B-2 laminating/curing fixtures if anyone is interested.
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
In the modeling industry, the PLUGS (at least those of the ultrascale projects) are covered in litho, and with these plugs the master molds are created.
These don't have much in common with the 3D multi-axis milled molds fount in the real aerospace (or most other) industries.
Since this is a modeling forum i simply wanted to stay on the subject....but yes you are right, my wording can easily be misunderstood for industrial standards.
Best regards
Hank
11-21-2006 | 09:59 AM
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From: VereenigingGauteng, SOUTH AFRICA
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
Yes I have been through the threads, but trying to find the info that I need inamongst 1000 odd results is a daunting task.
I was hoping some body could help with specifics to model aircraft.
Thanks for all the info so far.
Dale
I was hoping some body could help with specifics to model aircraft.
Thanks for all the info so far.
Dale
11-21-2006 | 12:05 PM
#14
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RE: Epoxy Mold Making
Have a look at Lance Campbell's website:
http://www.mmrca.org/lance/sledframe.html
He show's a lot of detail on how he built (is building) his SR-71.
http://www.mmrca.org/lance/sledframe.html
He show's a lot of detail on how he built (is building) his SR-71.
11-21-2006 | 12:53 PM
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RE: Epoxy Mold Making
ORIGINAL: Miniflyer
Really professional plugs are completely covered in lithoplate. So when wanting flush details, these are simply cut in the same thickness as the rest of the plates. Raised panels are simply thicker plates....
If you just want the lines then these can be scratched into the surface using a small sawblade or even a dull x-acto knife blade.
Best regards
Hank
Really professional plugs are completely covered in lithoplate. So when wanting flush details, these are simply cut in the same thickness as the rest of the plates. Raised panels are simply thicker plates....
If you just want the lines then these can be scratched into the surface using a small sawblade or even a dull x-acto knife blade.
Best regards
Hank
You mean like Harald Huf's amazing SU27 ? e.g. http://www.su27.de/seite18.htm The guy's talent & patience are simply unbelievable IMO.
11-29-2006 | 04:21 PM
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From: Long Beach, Ca CA
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
I look at Haralds web site for inspiration then go out and make shabby looking molds. Jetnoise I read somewhere that the mold should be at least 4 times as thick as the part you plan to make. So far I have had good results using West Systems epoxy, graphite powder and cabosil filler for a thicking agent. Those 3 parts make up my gell coat, they suggest letting the gel coat set up before applying any cloth I can see why that is a good idea since pushing cloth down against the plug would result in cloth pattern transfer. I always start with a light weight 1.5 oz follow it with 4 to 6 layers of 6 oz cloth in various directions keeping the overlaps under an inch and finish the top with a second light weight cloth for handling without gloves. after taking off the parting board you can make drill starts the width of the bit works fine on the flange for the second half to key into without worring to much about the depth or exact placement of each drill start (shown below). Bolt together is optional on larger molds it is prefered to clamps. Harald used threaded nut plates and bolts with a power drill turning them something his son apparently gets a kick out of doing himself.
11-29-2006 | 11:39 PM
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From: Brookhaven ,
MS
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
Terry
May i ask what do you Use for your "Surface coat" on makeing your Molds.? i am geting ready to make some tools ( Molds) for a project and was thinking about Useing Freeman 705 General Purpose Surface Coat.. its going to be a good size mold. and will be used alot just want to make the Tool surface last as long as i can..
May i ask what do you Use for your "Surface coat" on makeing your Molds.? i am geting ready to make some tools ( Molds) for a project and was thinking about Useing Freeman 705 General Purpose Surface Coat.. its going to be a good size mold. and will be used alot just want to make the Tool surface last as long as i can..
11-30-2006 | 05:27 AM
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From: Fort Wayne, IN
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
We used to use Freeman. BUt we now have a different supplier. If the 705 is aluminum fill it will be OK. I don't remember the Freeman # we used. Sorry. I can get the # of what we use now for you today.
12-03-2006 | 02:43 PM
#20
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
I have gotten a lot of good ideas and guidelines from the A-7 post on RCU by Jim & John(cactusflyer). You can see my work on my personal web site: http://gates-sid.com. My tooling is not what I consider to be production quality but it works for me.
12-05-2006 | 04:14 PM
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From: Fort Wayne, IN
RE: Epoxy Mold Making
Here you go, I got the numbers you wanted. The Freeman number for the aluminum surface coat we used to use is 701. Mix ratio is 12.5 to 1 PBW.
What we switched to is made by Adtech, also alumiinum filled and the number is ES-229. Mix ratio is 10 to 1.5
Hope this helps ya.
What we switched to is made by Adtech, also alumiinum filled and the number is ES-229. Mix ratio is 10 to 1.5
Hope this helps ya.
